High Visibility Paint Schemes

[Tony[_5_]]

I know this subject has been discussed here before, but searchability
on google groups really stinks so I'm just starting a new thread.
Getting to be winter time here in the northern hemisphere so we need
something to talk about anyway.

I'm dreaming about new fabric on 373Y this winter. With that comes
new paint. currently the glider is a solid color, "Daytona White"
which really is a Tan color. At the vintage glider rallies I notice a
lot of the gliders are quite colorful, and easy to see! I like that!
My initial thought is a solid White paint job with Red wingtips, nose
and rudder. Also I think I would put the tail number on the side of
the fuselage in big letters like it was originally instead of puny
letters under the tail. To me that is a more Vintage look. Probably
either contest or tail number on top and bottom of left/right wings
too. All the lettering would be Red.

I understand that contrast is key? One of the guys in my old club had
a 1-34 that was about 10 different colors. We nicknamed it "patches".
With spots of polished aluminum, neon green, white, neon orange etc.
that glider was easy to spot in the air!

What does RAS say?

Tony Condon

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

See :

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/glider-conspicuity-study.pdf

for some trial results in the UK.

Then make your own mind up, unless you can find some other sources.

Chris N.

[bildan]

On Oct 12, 10:52*am, Tony > wrote:
> I know this subject has been discussed here before, but searchability
> on google groups really stinks so I'm just starting a new thread.
> Getting to be winter time here in the northern hemisphere so we need
> something to talk about anyway.
>
> I'm dreaming about new fabric on 373Y this winter. *With that comes
> new paint. *currently the glider is a solid color, "Daytona White"
> which really is a Tan color. *At the vintage glider rallies I notice a
> lot of the gliders are quite colorful, and easy to see! *I like that!
> My initial thought is a solid White paint job with Red wingtips, nose
> and rudder. *Also I think I would put the tail number on the side of
> the fuselage in big letters like it was originally instead of puny
> letters under the tail. *To me that is a more Vintage look. *Probably
> either contest or tail number on top and bottom of left/right wings
> too. *All the lettering would be Red.
>
> I understand that contrast is key? *One of the guys in my old club had
> a 1-34 that was about 10 different colors. We nicknamed it "patches".
> With spots of polished aluminum, neon green, white, neon orange etc.
> that glider was easy to spot in the air!
>
> What does RAS say?
>
> Tony Condon

There have been some non aviation studies which show a florescent
green such as is seen on some emergency vehicles and responder
clothing is more easily seen against a wide range of background
colors.

I've noted that some ultralights and hang gliders of a brilliant green
color show up strongly against green hued grass or woodland colors as
well as a blue sky.

The "green on green" and "green on blue" apparent contrast is due to
the human eye's strong hue discrimination in the blue green spectrum.
Beware that about 25% of males suffer from some degree of color
blindness. (Or in some cases, color ignorance - what the hell is
'Fuschia'?)

Conversely, the human eye finds it difficult to focus on a red dot
against a blue field which is one reason why red gliders can be hard
to see. Red and blue are at opposite ends of the visible spectrum.
The eye, like all single lens optics, suffers from chromatic
aberration and will focus on the dominate color (blue) causing the red
dot to be out of focus and fade to gray.

Bottom line: Paint your glider any color you like - but only fly it
where it is seen against a contrasting color :-)

[GARY BOGGS CFIG]

The US military did lots of testing and found that solid white was the
most visible paint scheme, Adding anything else to the solid color
broke up the shape and made it less visible at distances. I don't
have the data, but it should be available somewhere online. At a
distance, anything other than white starts to blend into the
background. But solid white is not very exciting, and I love artistic
paint schemes! We have a bright orange Lark, and it is impossible to
see at a distance, but beautiful up close.

[Mike the Strike]

On Oct 13, 7:12*am, GARY BOGGS CFIG > wrote:
> The US military did lots of testing and found that solid white was the
> most visible paint scheme, *Adding anything else to the solid color
> broke up the shape and made it less visible at distances. *I don't
> have the data, but it should be available somewhere online. *At a
> distance, anything other than white starts to blend into the
> background. *But solid white is not very exciting, and I love artistic
> paint schemes! *We have a bright orange Lark, and it is impossible to
> see at a distance, but beautiful up close.

A couple of years ago a colleague and I had a close meeting under a
cloud street - I was heading north and he was heading south at the
same altitude. We met while cruising at around 80 knots IAS each -
that's a true closing speed of close to 200 mph. We had been in radio
contact a minute or two earlier and knew each others approximate
position. Suddenly, I saw a flash of red ahead slightly to my right
and instinctively turned left and climbed. The other glider passed
about 50 feet under my right wing, never having seen me. The only
reason I saw it was the red nose and wing anti-collision markings
which, in this case at least, worked.

A review of our igc files confirmed the fast closing speed and very
close approach. I think I had something under twenty seconds to
react, at which point the separation between us was about a mile -
pretty much in line with the findings of the UK report.

I think color helps against a background of cloud.

Mike

[[email protected]]

On Oct 12, 11:52*am, Tony > wrote:
> I know this subject has been discussed here before, but searchability
> on google groups really stinks so I'm just starting a new thread.
> Getting to be winter time here in the northern hemisphere so we need
> something to talk about anyway.
>
> I'm dreaming about new fabric on 373Y this winter. *With that comes
> new paint. *currently the glider is a solid color, "Daytona White"
> which really is a Tan color. *At the vintage glider rallies I notice a
> lot of the gliders are quite colorful, and easy to see! *I like that!
> My initial thought is a solid White paint job with Red wingtips, nose
> and rudder. *Also I think I would put the tail number on the side of
> the fuselage in big letters like it was originally instead of puny
> letters under the tail. *To me that is a more Vintage look. *Probably
> either contest or tail number on top and bottom of left/right wings
> too. *All the lettering would be Red.
>
> I understand that contrast is key? *One of the guys in my old club had
> a 1-34 that was about 10 different colors. We nicknamed it "patches".
> With spots of polished aluminum, neon green, white, neon orange etc.
> that glider was easy to spot in the air!
>
> What does RAS say?
>
> Tony Condon

If this thread was on pilotsofamerica I'd suggest painting naked
ladies all over it.

[Dan[_4_]]

On Oct 13, 1:14*pm, wrote:
> On Oct 12, 11:52*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I know this subject has been discussed here before, but searchability
> > on google groups really stinks so I'm just starting a new thread.
> > Getting to be winter time here in the northern hemisphere so we need
> > something to talk about anyway.
>
> > I'm dreaming about new fabric on 373Y this winter. *With that comes
> > new paint. *currently the glider is a solid color, "Daytona White"
> > which really is a Tan color. *At the vintage glider rallies I notice a
> > lot of the gliders are quite colorful, and easy to see! *I like that!
> > My initial thought is a solid White paint job with Red wingtips, nose
> > and rudder. *Also I think I would put the tail number on the side of
> > the fuselage in big letters like it was originally instead of puny
> > letters under the tail. *To me that is a more Vintage look. *Probably
> > either contest or tail number on top and bottom of left/right wings
> > too. *All the lettering would be Red.
>
> > I understand that contrast is key? *One of the guys in my old club had
> > a 1-34 that was about 10 different colors. We nicknamed it "patches".
> > With spots of polished aluminum, neon green, white, neon orange etc.
> > that glider was easy to spot in the air!
>
> > What does RAS say?
>
> > Tony Condon
>
> If this thread was on pilotsofamerica I'd suggest painting naked
> ladies all over it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Canadian military paints trainers (BAe Hawk, Havard II, Dash 8,
etc) black - highest contrast up here (white in the winter's not so
good, particularly if you have to SAR it). I wouldn't want to pick up
the wingtip of a black painted metal glider, though.
Dan

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:26:06 -0700, Dan wrote:

>
> The Canadian military paints trainers (BAe Hawk, Havard II, Dash 8,
> etc) black - highest contrast up here (white in the winter's not so
> good, particularly if you have to SAR it). I wouldn't want to pick up
> the wingtip of a black painted metal glider, though. Dan
>
Back when I was pre-solo I remember following a white Nimbus round the
circuit on a clear, overcast day when the airfield had 50mm of snow on
it. We had no problem seeing him in the air. As we flew the base leg the
Nimbus was just turning finals and the instructor asked me where I was
going to land. "To his left, I said". "Good move" was the reply. I saw
the Nimbus down and rolling just before we turned base. I lined up to his
left and then realised he'd blinked out as soon as he stopped and told
the instructor I'd lost him. "So have I" he said. I landed where I'd
decided to and rolled to a stop on the left of the Nimbus. That's about
the best lesson I ever had about never landing directly toward a glider
that's on the ground.

====

I wonder about painting the undersides of wings and tail black while
leaving the rest of the glider white. That should stay cool while showing
up well against anything except ice and snow.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Paul Remde]

The most fun glider paint schemes are on the gliders found here:
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/

specifically
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/web-albums/A%20walk%20around%20the%20glider/index.html
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/eng/weilandexp/weilandexp.htm
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/eng/vogels/vogels.htm
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/eng/pinguins/pinguins.htm
http://www.henkvanderheijden.nl/htm/beschildering02/beschildering02_eng.htm

Best Regards,

--
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.


> wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 11:52 am, Tony > wrote:
> I know this subject has been discussed here before, but searchability
> on google groups really stinks so I'm just starting a new thread.
> Getting to be winter time here in the northern hemisphere so we need
> something to talk about anyway.
>
> I'm dreaming about new fabric on 373Y this winter. With that comes
> new paint. currently the glider is a solid color, "Daytona White"
> which really is a Tan color. At the vintage glider rallies I notice a
> lot of the gliders are quite colorful, and easy to see! I like that!
> My initial thought is a solid White paint job with Red wingtips, nose
> and rudder. Also I think I would put the tail number on the side of
> the fuselage in big letters like it was originally instead of puny
> letters under the tail. To me that is a more Vintage look. Probably
> either contest or tail number on top and bottom of left/right wings
> too. All the lettering would be Red.
>
> I understand that contrast is key? One of the guys in my old club had
> a 1-34 that was about 10 different colors. We nicknamed it "patches".
> With spots of polished aluminum, neon green, white, neon orange etc.
> that glider was easy to spot in the air!
>
> What does RAS say?
>
> Tony Condon

If this thread was on pilotsofamerica I'd suggest painting naked
ladies all over it.

[Uncle Fuzzy]

> ====
>
> I wonder about painting the undersides of wings and tail black while
> leaving the rest of the glider white. That should stay cool while showing
> up well against anything except ice and snow.
>
I like that idea, except that Black is boring. A nice rich RED is
very close to black in grey scale value, and so much less boring.
You've probably noted as much while looking up chasing runaway FF
models.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:11:07 -0700, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

>> ====
>>
>> I wonder about painting the undersides of wings and tail black while
>> leaving the rest of the glider white. That should stay cool while
>> showing up well against anything except ice and snow.
>>
> I like that idea, except that Black is boring. A nice rich RED is very
> close to black in grey scale value, and so much less boring. You've
> probably noted as much while looking up chasing runaway FF models.
>
The best scheme for FF I've used is black undersides on the inner panels
and dayglo orange top and bottom on the tips. The inner panel top colour
doesn't matter much. I've used yellow, scarlet and white - all are
equally good. However, the both the black inners and the orange tips show
up really well against any sky and, as a bonus, the orange tips are
highly visible on the ground as well. The pictures here:

http://www.gregorie.org/freeflight

are a bit washed out, but do show why I like the scheme. I don't think
the dayglo works as well on a sailplane because a lot of its visibility
comes from light shining through the translucent wing covering and
powering up the dayglo .

A friend uses purple inners and yellow/green dayglo. The yellow/green is
pretty good but I don't think the purple is as visible in the air as
black.

the reason that dayglo always looks so bright is that it absorbs
ultraviolet and visible wavelengths of light and uses the energy to
fluoresce, so it actually is brighter than other colours. Under more than
a few feet of water almost all light is blue-green but even here orange
dayglo fluoresces orange. Panels of it have been used to improve the
colour balance of underwater photographs.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[bildan]

On Oct 14, 4:32*am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:11:07 -0700, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:
> >> ====
>
> >> I wonder about painting the undersides of wings and tail black while
> >> leaving the rest of the glider white. That should stay cool while
> >> showing up well against anything except ice and snow.
>
> > I like that idea, except that Black is boring. *A nice rich RED is very
> > close to black in grey scale value, and so much less boring. You've
> > probably noted as much while looking up chasing runaway FF models.
>
> The best scheme for FF I've used is black undersides on the inner panels
> and dayglo orange top and bottom on the tips. The inner panel top colour
> doesn't matter much. I've used yellow, scarlet and white - all are
> equally good. However, the both the black inners and the orange tips show
> up really well against any sky and, as a bonus, the orange tips are
> highly visible on the ground as well. The pictures here:
>
> http://www.gregorie.org/freeflight
>
> are a bit washed out, but do show why I like the scheme. I don't think
> the dayglo works as well on a sailplane because a lot of its visibility
> comes from light shining through the translucent wing covering and
> powering up the dayglo .
>
> A friend uses purple inners and yellow/green dayglo. The yellow/green is
> pretty good but I don't think the purple is as visible in the air as
> black.
>
> the reason that dayglo always looks so bright is that it absorbs
> ultraviolet and visible wavelengths of light and uses the energy to
> fluoresce, so it actually is brighter than other colours. Under more than
> a few feet of water almost all light is blue-green but even here orange
> dayglo fluoresces orange. Panels of it have been used to improve the
> colour balance of underwater photographs.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

Actually, while ultraviolet works, most florescent (Trademark Dayglo)
materials also absorb blue wavelengths and re-emit as a bright (but
longer wavelength) color. As proof, use a blue LED to illuminate a
florescent material and watch it light up.

[ContestID67[_2_]]

A couple of years back I was watching some local scale model glider
pilots flying (interesting winch launching mechanism) and noticed that
they used reflective tape on their leading edges. This was also
mentioned in the http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/glider-conspicuity-study.pdf
article.

I asked the scale model pilots about it and they said they often loose
their gliders, especially during overcast days, so they circle and
pick up the "flash" of the tape. The tape that they used is used for
reflective fishing lures. See http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/reflector-tape-eyes/309100.aspx
for examples.

So I bought some of the tape and used wing tape to attach about 3' on
the leading edge near my wing tips. I communicated with Dick Johnson
about it and he expressed interest in the concept. Unfortunately,
life interfered and I never completed a reasonable study if I was more
visible or not. I plan on being in a contest in 2010 which might be a
good proving ground.

The question is would it affect the aerodynamics of the wing? If so
it might be a hard sell for competition pilots, which is a prime at-
risk group.

My $0.02.

- John DeRosa

[Mike Bamberg]

On Oct 14, 9:35*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> A couple of years back I was watching some local scale model glider
> pilots flying (interesting winch launching mechanism) and noticed that
> they used reflective tape on their leading edges. *This was also
> mentioned in thehttp://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/glider-conspicuity-study.pdf
> article.
>
> I asked the scale model pilots about it and they said they often loose
> their gliders, especially during overcast days, so they circle and
> pick up the "flash" of the tape. *The tape that they used is used for
> reflective fishing lures. *Seehttp://www.jannsnetcraft.com/reflector-tape-eyes/309100.aspx
> for examples.
>
> So I bought some of the tape and used wing tape to attach about 3' on
> the leading edge near my wing tips. *I communicated with Dick Johnson
> about it and he expressed interest in the concept. *Unfortunately,
> life interfered and I never completed a reasonable study if I was more
> visible or not. *I plan on being in a contest in 2010 which might be a
> good proving ground.
>
> The question is would it affect the aerodynamics of the wing? *If so
> it might be a hard sell for competition pilots, which is a prime at-
> risk group.
>
> My $0.02.
>
> - John DeRosa

I have flown model XC soaring gliders for the past 22 years. It's not
unusual for the model to be over 3000 above and up to 1 mile away from
the pilot during the race.

I have used several types of the reflecting tape and found for the
models that the best result was with simple chrome film. The "swirly"
patterns may be good to simulate motion to a fish, but the plain
chrome gives a bigger brighter flash in the air.

Top Flite (modeling company) sells an adhesive film, marketed as
TrimCote, in a number of neon colors as well as the chrome. A 4"x30"
sheet is about $4 at most hobby shops. You can buy a selection of
colors and reflectivity and do your own evaluation. Checkerboard
patterns in several colors are also available!

Mike

[bildan]

On Oct 14, 2:45*pm, Mike Bamberg > wrote:
> On Oct 14, 9:35*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
>
>
>
> > A couple of years back I was watching some local scale model glider
> > pilots flying (interesting winch launching mechanism) and noticed that
> > they used reflective tape on their leading edges. *This was also
> > mentioned in thehttp://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/glider-conspicuity-study.pdf
> > article.
>
> > I asked the scale model pilots about it and they said they often loose
> > their gliders, especially during overcast days, so they circle and
> > pick up the "flash" of the tape. *The tape that they used is used for
> > reflective fishing lures. *Seehttp://www.jannsnetcraft.com/reflector-tape-eyes/309100.aspx
> > for examples.
>
> > So I bought some of the tape and used wing tape to attach about 3' on
> > the leading edge near my wing tips. *I communicated with Dick Johnson
> > about it and he expressed interest in the concept. *Unfortunately,
> > life interfered and I never completed a reasonable study if I was more
> > visible or not. *I plan on being in a contest in 2010 which might be a
> > good proving ground.
>
> > The question is would it affect the aerodynamics of the wing? *If so
> > it might be a hard sell for competition pilots, which is a prime at-
> > risk group.
>
> > My $0.02.
>
> > - John DeRosa
>
> I have flown model XC soaring gliders for the past 22 years. *It's not
> unusual for the model to be over 3000 above and up to 1 mile away from
> the pilot during the race.
>
> I have used several types of the reflecting tape and found for the
> models that the best result was with simple chrome film. *The "swirly"
> patterns may be good to simulate motion to a fish, but the plain
> chrome gives a bigger brighter flash in the air.
>
> Top Flite (modeling company) sells an adhesive film, marketed as
> TrimCote, in a number of neon colors as well as the chrome. *A 4"x30"
> sheet is about $4 at most hobby shops. *You can buy a selection of
> colors and reflectivity and do your own evaluation. *Checkerboard
> patterns in several colors are also available!
>
> Mike

A flash of reflected sunlight is by far the best way to see an
aircraft at long range. Simple "Heliographs" with 6" mirrors were
used by desert armies in the 19th century for "optical communication
networks" spanning hundreds of miles. Survival packs are still
equipped with signaling mirrors.

I've wondered if this technology could be brought into the digital
age. A simple 2" mirror driven by tiny stepper motors might direct
flashes at a known target. Of course, you'd have to know where the
observer was in 3D space, the sun angle as well as your own 3D
position and attitude. Fortunately, devices like FLARM can determine
that information. Even if I know the abstract location of another
glider, actually seeing a flash is comforting.

[Jim Kellett]

On Oct 17, 10:44*am, bildan > wrote:


> A flash of reflected sunlight is by far the best way to see an
> aircraft at long range. *. . .
> I've wondered if this technology could be brought into the digital
> age. *. .

<snip>

In a study done some years ago at the Cranfield Institute in the UK on
conspicuity schemes, one of the best was to put some highly reflective
foil - perhaps like that mentioned in an earlier post about RC models
- on the control surfaces of a glider (rudder, elevator, ailerons).
The movement of the control surfaces, far more frequent that movements
of the airframe itself, was remarkably good at alerting others of the
presence of the glider.
Jim