Anyone towed behind a Cessna BirdDog before?

[Scott Alexander[_2_]]

A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
have the ability to tow. Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
a towplane?

Is it just as good as a pawnee?


What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
you in?

Thanks!

[Guy[_7_]]

Look at the Soar Hawaii website.
L-19 BirdDog is the main towplane.

[BT]

I think there is a club at Sterling Massachusetts that has a Bird Dog.

Bird Dog has two seats, Pawnee, 1.
For a personal plane that is a good thing, for training new tow pilots that
is a good thing.
For Club Ownership.. they cost about twice the price of a good Pawnee and
the insurance cost reflects.

I know a NV Club that had a BirdDog and sold it for both reasons.
BT

"Scott Alexander" > wrote in message
...
>A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> have the ability to tow. Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> a towplane?
>
> Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
>
> What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> you in?
>
> Thanks!

[Andy[_10_]]

On Oct 17, 8:21*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> have the ability to tow. *Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> a towplane?
>
> Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
> What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> you in?
>
> Thanks!

Pretty sure I towed behind one several times at Sugarbush, VT in the
early 80's. As I recall it climbed far better than a SuperCub. As best
as I can compare across the years it climbed at least as well as a
Pawnee. I was flying an LS-3 - usually full of water.

The L-19 that ran out of gas right after I broke ground on takeoff
didn't climb at all well.

9B

[Scott Alexander[_2_]]

> The L-19 that ran out of gas right after I broke ground on takeoff
> didn't climb at all well.
>
> 9B

Why not? Was it overdeveloped that day? That's too funny!

[Paul[_2_]]

On Oct 17, 10:21*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> have the ability to tow. *Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> a towplane?
>
> Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
> What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> you in?
>
> Thanks!

Texas Soaring Association used L-19s for many years but replaced them
with Pawnees, which are stronger. But the Bird Dogs were popular with
the towpilots for their nice handling, had two seats, good for
training new towpilots, but could have used more power with heavy
gliders on hot Texas days. I don't fly the front end of the rope
myself, but I liked being towed by the Bird Dogs. There is a neat way
to stay in just the right position on tow: line up the horizontal
stabilizer in the "X" made by the wing struts and landing gear, and
you're right where you should be.

p.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 17, 11:21*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> have the ability to tow. *Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> a towplane?
>
> Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
> What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> you in?
>
> Thanks!

Excellent towplane.
Easy to fly.
Will pull anything- maybe not like 260 Pawnee, but plenty good.
Parts can be hard to get.
Becoming valuable as warbird so insurance prices are high.
Would be a good dual purpose plane for someone that wanted both
warbird and tug.

UH

[Dan[_4_]]

On Oct 18, 9:13*am, wrote:
> On Oct 17, 11:21*pm, Scott Alexander >
> wrote:
>
> > A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> > have the ability to tow. *Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> > a towplane?
>
> > Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
> > What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> > you in?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> Excellent towplane.
> Easy to fly.
> Will pull anything- maybe not like 260 Pawnee, but plenty good.
> Parts can be hard to get.
> Becoming valuable as warbird so insurance prices are high.
> Would be a good dual purpose plane for someone that wanted both
> warbird and tug.
>
> UH

Montreal Soaring Council in Canada operates 3 L-19's. Scroll down to
the bottom of http://www.flymsc.org/AG/CLUB/CLUBFLEET.htm to see
them. The club came in second in the Canadian OLC with about 55,000
km of cross-country. Dropping them an e-mail might get you some great
info. Good tows, with water in hot/humid conditions.

2D

[luv2glide]

On Oct 17, 11:21*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> A good friend is considering buying a BirdDog for personal use and
> have the ability to tow. *Anyone know just how strong a bird dog is as
> a towplane?
>
> Is it just as good as a pawnee?
>
> What was the rate of climb you had on tow and what type of ship were
> you in?
>
> Thanks!

Climb rate approx 150-200fpm better than a Pawnee in any type ship

[R[_3_]]

luv2glide wrote:

> Climb rate approx 150-200fpm better than a Pawnee in any type ship

The descent rate is better, too. The L-19 has more effective flaps.

[zulu]

A lot has to do with the atltiude of your airport.
The Bird Dog has the same engine as a C-182,
a Cont.O-470, but it's derated to 213 horses unless
you are flying an "E" model Bird Dog with the constant
speed prop which has a bit more power.
But, as has been pointed out, they are becoming popular
as War Birds and are therefore more expensive. On the
other had they are more fun to fly and you can carry a pax.
The Cessna 188 ag plane is nice if you can find one and they
have the O 520 with essentially the same wing as the Bird Dog
and do a great job of towing......about the same as a Pawnee.

Zulu

[flymaule]

The Cessna 305 (L-19) is a great tow plane.* I routinely tow in an
L-19, Pawnee, and 235 HP Maule and find the L-19 is not only more fun
to fly, but outperforms the others.* If you read the history of the
L-19 (the Loveable 19er by M Thompson) you can understand why.* In the
late 1940s Cessna developed this aircraft to meet the specifications
of the Army Air Corps for a liaison and utility battlefield aircraft.*
It was designed to climb fast and land and take off in very short
rough fields.* It is not fast or fancy, but in meeting these specs
winds up being a great tow aircraft.* Have you friend look at the
International Bird Dor Assoc. website www.ibdaweb.org (or Google Bird
Dor Association if I remember the site name incorrectly).Skip Guimond

[Nimbob]

Wurtsboro used to have Birdogs - maybe they still do? I remember they
had a lot of spare parts in the hangar - wonder if the are still
there. Engines in cans, rows of wings stacked up. George used to hand-
prop the L-19 when I was flying there, not sure if the starter was
failed or missing, or if he just enjoyed hand-propping.

The author of the Bird Dog book, Minard Thompson has an office just
down the hall from my office here.

Jim

[ContestID67[_2_]]

Sky Soaring (outside of Chicago - http://skysoaring.com) has an L-19
that the tow pilots and glider drivers absolutely LOVE. It tows
anything to 3K AGL in 7-8 minutes flat. We have also did a dual tow
for fun and excitement - the tow pilot reported not much of a
difference from a single tow. I am on the board and insurance hasn't
been onerous.

That being said...

1) We have had quite a bit of maintenance on the ship over the last
year which we are able to do in house. I cannot speak to the question
if the L19 requires more maintenance and/or fuel than a Pawnee. If
you are really interested in the details on our maintenance history
please drop me a line and I will forward your contact info to our
maintenance chief.

2) We are actively looking for a second tow plane - specifically a
Pawnee (anyone know of one available?) - which we would use as the
primary tow plane while we determine which ship is "better".

My $0.04.

- John DeRosa

[ContestID67[_2_]]

One other point. We have not had much of an issue with finding
parts. Most of the wear items like engine, gear, etc is pretty
standard stuff. We fabricate our own sheet metal so we haven't run
into having to find those kind of parts.

[jsbrake]

The Royal Canadian Air Cadets use a mix of Bellanca Scout and L-19
tugs and they're happy with them. However, they're only towing 2-33's

I remember the Scout from my training many years ago: the tug would
"Split S" after the release and direct to landing. Never had problems
with them. Apparently, they do the same with the L-19.

[RRK]

On Oct 19, 10:31*am, Nimbob > wrote:
> Wurtsboro used to have Birdogs - maybe they still do? I remember they
> had a lot of spare parts in the hangar - wonder if the are still
> there. Engines in cans, rows of wings stacked up. George used to hand-
> prop the L-19 when I was flying there, not sure if the starter was
> failed or missing, or if he just enjoyed hand-propping.
>
> The author of the Bird Dog book, Minard Thompson has an office just
> down the hall from my office here.
>
> Jim

George used to have seven L-19's. Three of them were flying, and four
were a source of spare parts.
He did hand-prop for the same reason he was towing with an almost dry
tanks. He believed that there is no point of taking heavy starter or
unneeded gas... up and down, hundred times a day.
Richard
BTW. George Baron and his father were a Great American Aviators. They
are worth of some sort of historical biography. Now , when they are
gone, nobody seams to care for who they were, and what they did for
American Soaring.. Very soon nobody will remember their names.

[Warren Cramer]

On Oct 19, 10:31*am, Nimbob wrote:
Wurtsboro used to have Birdogs - maybe they still do? I remember they
had a lot of spare parts in the hangar - wonder if the are still
there. Engines in cans, rows of wings stacked up. George used to hand-
prop the L-19 when I was flying there, not sure if the starter was
failed or missing, or if he just enjoyed hand-propping.

The author of the Bird Dog book, Minard Thompson has an office just
down the hall from my office here.

Jim

George used to have seven L-19's. Three of them were flying, and four
were a source of spare parts.
He did hand-prop for the same reason he was towing with an almost dry
tanks. He believed that there is no point of taking heavy starter or
unneeded gas... up and down, hundred times a day.
Richard
BTW. George Baron and his father were a Great American Aviators. They
are worth of some sort of historical biography. Now , when they are
gone, nobody seams to care for who they were, and what they did for
American Soaring.. Very soon nobody will remember their names.

Nimbob and RRK -

I work as CFIG at Wurtsboro and we are still using 2 of the original 3 L-19s that George used. They were completely overhauled and repainted in military colors about 3 years ago. They are great airplanes!

About your remark of the Barones being forgotten, we are currently working on a small museum and information room here at the airport about soaring and the Wurtsboro Airport history. Would love to have any old pictures or stories about the Airport that you guys might have!

Stop by sometime,
-Warren