CAI302 altitude in NMEA..

[PCool]

Hello,
I am adding some missing CAI302 sentences to the LK8000 free software I am developing, and from Cambridge specs I can't understand what is the difference between "true altitude" sent from a !w,xxx,xxx,xx etc sentence and the $PCAID barometer altitude.

I understood that the CAI302 does not send !w sentences, but I guess that the 302A sends both. So if they are the same I am very happy, otherwise I need to know the difference.
Any help will be appreciated!

Paolo

[Darryl Ramm]

On Oct 22, 5:40*am, "PCool" > wrote:
> Hello,
> * * * * * * I am adding some missing CAI302 sentences to the LK8000 free software I am developing, and from Cambridge specs I can't understand what is the difference between "true altitude" sent from a !w,xxx,xxx,xx etc * sentence and the $PCAID barometer altitude.
>
> I understood that the CAI302 does not send !w sentences, but I guess that the 302A sends both. So if they are the same I am very happy, otherwise I need to know the difference.
> *Any help will be appreciated!
>
> Paolo

Paolo

Maybe you swapped the order of what you intended to say, but clearly
the 302 will send both !w and $PCAID.

I don't own a 302A and have never played with one but as others have
mentioned here before the 302A likely does not send !w messages, that
makes most sense to me but again I'd want to see the output myself.

The language in the dataport user's guide would have me believe that
$PCIAD reports pressure altitude (i.e. "barometer altitude") and the
w! "true altitude" is pressure altitude corrected for QNH (not much
else it can be, well they could invoke ellipsoid relative heights etc.
but unlikely). Since !w also reports the QNH you can easily check
this. And hey preto searching the ras archives turns up a post by Paul
Remde with a fragment of output from a 302...

!w,000,000,0000,500,01287,01020,-0668,191,199,191,000,000,100*44
$GPRMC,163805,V,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,000.0,000 .0,260304,002.1,E*7D
$GPRMB,V,,,Stanton ,,4308.8388,N,09300.9833,W,,,*47
$GPGGA,163805,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,0,00,00.0,0 .0,M,0.0,M,,*5F
$PCAIB,00280,00067
$PCAID,N,+00224,000,128*05

So here $PCAID shows an altitude of 224 meters and !w shows an
altitude of 1,000 meters + 287 meters and a QNH setting of 1020 mB.

Near sea level 1mB ~ 8.6m. So 1013-1020 = -7*8.6 = -60m altimeter
pressure correction. And 286-60 = 226m, close enough to 224m for me.

Of course I'm assuming the sample Paul quoted was real. The $GPRMC
sentence above decodes to a location of 44 48.5614' N, 93 33.0117'W
which is near Paul's home/office but $GPGGA shows the fix is not
valid. And the different reported speeds above are either zero or
invalid so I'm guessing the C302 is sitting inside on a desk at Paul's
for this test. And convineintly his office address altitude according
to Google Earth is 283 meters.


Darryl

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Oct 22, 11:29*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Oct 22, 5:40*am, "PCool" > wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > * * * * * * I am adding some missing CAI302 sentences to the LK8000 free software I am developing, and from Cambridge specs I can't understand what is the difference between "true altitude" sent from a !w,xxx,xxx,xx etc * sentence and the $PCAID barometer altitude.
>
> > I understood that the CAI302 does not send !w sentences, but I guess that the 302A sends both. So if they are the same I am very happy, otherwise I need to know the difference.
> > *Any help will be appreciated!
>
> > Paolo
>
> Paolo
>
> Maybe you swapped the order of what you intended to say, but clearly
> the 302 will send both !w and $PCAID.
>
> I don't own a 302A and have never played with one but as others have
> mentioned here before the 302A likely does not send !w messages, that
> makes most sense to me but again I'd want to see the output myself.
>
> The language in the dataport user's guide would have me believe that
> $PCIAD reports pressure altitude (i.e. "barometer altitude") and the
> w! "true altitude" is pressure altitude corrected for QNH (not much
> else it can be, well they could invoke ellipsoid relative heights etc.
> but unlikely). Since !w also reports the QNH you can easily check
> this. And hey preto searching the ras archives turns up a post by Paul
> Remde with a fragment of output from a 302...
>
> !w,000,000,0000,500,01287,01020,-0668,191,199,191,000,000,100*44
> $GPRMC,163805,V,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,000.0,000 .0,260304,002.1,E*7D
> $GPRMB,V,,,Stanton * * ,,4308.8388,N,09300.9833,W,,,*47
> $GPGGA,163805,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,0,00,00.0,0 .0,M,0.0,M,,*5F
> $PCAIB,00280,00067
> $PCAID,N,+00224,000,128*05
>
> So here *$PCAID shows an altitude of 224 meters and !w shows an
> altitude of 1,000 meters + 287 meters and a QNH setting of 1020 mB.
>
> Near sea level 1mB ~ 8.6m. So 1013-1020 = -7*8.6 = -60m altimeter
> pressure correction. And 286-60 = 226m, close enough to 224m for me.
>
> Of course I'm assuming the sample Paul quoted was real. The $GPRMC
> sentence above decodes to a location of 44 48.5614' N, 93 33.0117'W
> which is near Paul's home/office but $GPGGA shows the fix is not
> valid. And the different reported speeds above are either zero or
> invalid so I'm guessing the C302 is sitting inside on a desk at Paul's
> for this test. And convineintly his office address altitude according
> to Google Earth is 283 meters.
>
> Darryl

Just for comparison: from a 302A

$GPRMC,014040,A,3609.0517,N,11505.0920,W,
000.0,000.0,170909,013.7,E*62
$GPRMB,A,0.0,R,*Jean ,,3546.2200,N,11519.7000,W,
025.7,207.4,V*2D
$GPGGA,014040,3609.0517,N,11505.0920,W,1,00,29.1,5 55.3,M,-25.1,M,,*42
$PCAIB,00863,00067
$PCAID,N,+00544,000,064*0D

[PCool]

Thanks Uncle, so in the end I can use the PCIAD altitude, and discard the !w
, right?
There is no need to adjust for standard pressure the !w QNH altitude, since
PCAID is supposed to do that automatically.
This is what I understood.

Paolo

"Uncle Fuzzy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Oct 22, 11:29 am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Oct 22, 5:40 am, "PCool" > wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I am adding some missing CAI302 sentences to the LK8000 free software I
> > am developing, and from Cambridge specs I can't understand what is the
> > difference between "true altitude" sent from a !w,xxx,xxx,xx etc
> > sentence and the $PCAID barometer altitude.
>
> > I understood that the CAI302 does not send !w sentences, but I guess
> > that the 302A sends both. So if they are the same I am very happy,
> > otherwise I need to know the difference.
> > Any help will be appreciated!
>
> > Paolo
>
> Paolo
>
> Maybe you swapped the order of what you intended to say, but clearly
> the 302 will send both !w and $PCAID.
>
> I don't own a 302A and have never played with one but as others have
> mentioned here before the 302A likely does not send !w messages, that
> makes most sense to me but again I'd want to see the output myself.
>
> The language in the dataport user's guide would have me believe that
> $PCIAD reports pressure altitude (i.e. "barometer altitude") and the
> w! "true altitude" is pressure altitude corrected for QNH (not much
> else it can be, well they could invoke ellipsoid relative heights etc.
> but unlikely). Since !w also reports the QNH you can easily check
> this. And hey preto searching the ras archives turns up a post by Paul
> Remde with a fragment of output from a 302...
>
> !w,000,000,0000,500,01287,01020,-0668,191,199,191,000,000,100*44
> $GPRMC,163805,V,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,000.0,000 .0,260304,002.1,E*7D
> $GPRMB,V,,,Stanton ,,4308.8388,N,09300.9833,W,,,*47
> $GPGGA,163805,4448.5614,N,09333.0117,W,0,00,00.0,0 .0,M,0.0,M,,*5F
> $PCAIB,00280,00067
> $PCAID,N,+00224,000,128*05
>
> So here $PCAID shows an altitude of 224 meters and !w shows an
> altitude of 1,000 meters + 287 meters and a QNH setting of 1020 mB.
>
> Near sea level 1mB ~ 8.6m. So 1013-1020 = -7*8.6 = -60m altimeter
> pressure correction. And 286-60 = 226m, close enough to 224m for me.
>
> Of course I'm assuming the sample Paul quoted was real. The $GPRMC
> sentence above decodes to a location of 44 48.5614' N, 93 33.0117'W
> which is near Paul's home/office but $GPGGA shows the fix is not
> valid. And the different reported speeds above are either zero or
> invalid so I'm guessing the C302 is sitting inside on a desk at Paul's
> for this test. And convineintly his office address altitude according
> to Google Earth is 283 meters.
>
> Darryl

Just for comparison: from a 302A

$GPRMC,014040,A,3609.0517,N,11505.0920,W,
000.0,000.0,170909,013.7,E*62
$GPRMB,A,0.0,R,*Jean ,,3546.2200,N,11519.7000,W,
025.7,207.4,V*2D
$GPGGA,014040,3609.0517,N,11505.0920,W,1,00,29.1,5 55.3,M,-25.1,M,,*42
$PCAIB,00863,00067
$PCAID,N,+00544,000,064*0D

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Oct 23, 2:02*am, "PCool" > wrote:
> Thanks Uncle, so in the end I can use the PCIAD altitude, and discard the !w
> , right?
> There is no need to adjust for standard pressure the !w QNH altitude, since
> PCAID is supposed to do that automatically.
> This is what I understood.
>
> Paolo
>
I think the PCAID message is RAW pressure altitude, uncompensated for
anything.
Darryl,
I have this .pdf:
Cambridge Digital Direct Vario (302)
Data Port User’s Guide SV-517 Revision 2.2
March 25, 2003
Do you know if this is current? (Wouldn't think it would change much,
but...)
Paolo,
If you don't have it, I'll send you the above .pdf.

[PCool]

Uncle,
it is very easy for me to check values once I have an NMEA stream
of a couple of minutes with valid data in it, coming from the device I would
like to support.
It's the only safe method to solve things and make them work. Since in the
LK8000 project there are no more simulations but only real feed of real data
to the software, I am looking for the CAI302 NMEA stream.

Maybe you can help me?

paolo


"Uncle Fuzzy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Oct 23, 2:02 am, "PCool" > wrote:
> Thanks Uncle, so in the end I can use the PCIAD altitude, and discard the
> !w
> , right?
> There is no need to adjust for standard pressure the !w QNH altitude,
> since
> PCAID is supposed to do that automatically.
> This is what I understood.
>
> Paolo
>
I think the PCAID message is RAW pressure altitude, uncompensated for
anything.
Darryl,
I have this .pdf:
Cambridge Digital Direct Vario (302)
Data Port User’s Guide SV-517 Revision 2.2
March 25, 2003
Do you know if this is current? (Wouldn't think it would change much,
but...)
Paolo,
If you don't have it, I'll send you the above .pdf.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Oct 23, 10:01*am, "PCool" > wrote:
> Uncle,
> * * * * it is very easy for me to check values once I have an *NMEA stream
> of a couple of minutes with valid data in it, coming from the device I would
> like to support.
> It's the only safe method to solve things and make them work. Since in the
> LK8000 project there are no more simulations but only real feed of real data
> to the software, I am looking for the CAI302 NMEA stream.
>
> Maybe you can help me?
>
> paolo
>
> "Uncle Fuzzy" > ha scritto nel ...
> On Oct 23, 2:02 am, "PCool" > wrote:> Thanks Uncle, so in the end I can use the PCIAD altitude, and discard the
> > !w
> > , right?
> > There is no need to adjust for standard pressure the !w QNH altitude,
> > since
> > PCAID is supposed to do that automatically.
> > This is what I understood.
>
> > Paolo
>
> I think the PCAID message is RAW pressure altitude, uncompensated for
> anything.
> Darryl,
> * I have this .pdf:
> *Cambridge Digital Direct Vario (302)
> Data Port User’s Guide SV-517 Revision 2.2
> March 25, 2003
> Do you know if this is current? *(Wouldn't think it would change much,
> but...)
> Paolo,
> If you don't have it, I'll send you the above .pdf.

I think I offered a pretty good explanation already. If a C302 is
connected why would you not want to use the w! sentence data? If you
have a C302A then you have a lot less to play with and no choice, and
you have to deal with altimeter correction in the application/UI.
Which since you are displaying it anyhow you might as well integrate
into showing the QNH from the !w sentence when connected to a 302.

Darryl