Cheap Glide Computer

[Uncle Fuzzy]

I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
to use. Here's the breakdown:
iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
New battery - $20.00
Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shipping
http://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
XCSoar - Free
I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
>,
Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:

> I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> to use. Here's the breakdown:
> iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> New battery - $20.00
> Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shipping
> http://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> XCSoar - Free
> I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.

That's a good setup. How do you power the IPAQ for the duration of a
x-country flight?

Here's a comparable system I like, and have used for the last 5 years or
so here in the USA:

Palm Tungsten T: usually around $35 on ebay
Power To Go battery pack (clips onto the Palm): $20
The same bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60
SoaringPilot - Free

Cheap enough to keep a spare PDA in the side pocket. This system will
run for at least 8 hours (assuming the Power To Go is not worn out). I
have flown flights of over 7 hours with no sign of battery exhaustion.
Also, for less than $5, you can buy an AA battery pack that will run the
unit for hours in flight. Of course, a Goddard power converter will let
you run off ship's power. The Palm Tungsten T is very readable in bright
sunlight. In fact, the brighter, the better. Best of all is SoaringPilot
is mature software that is very well supported. Has all the features one
would expect for x-country/contest flying. It is easy to set up on the
PDA, easy to load waypoints, polars, and airspace, easy to enter and fly
tasks. Automagically loads the igc file onto the card at the end of the
flight if you like. Go to: http://www.soaringpilot.org/

Oh, and you can run SoaringPilot on the IPAQ with a Palm emulator called
"Styletap".

I haven't gotten around to trying XCSoar yet. I have a 5 inch screen
Windows CE car gps that I may try to hack for XCSoar.

[Mike[_8_]]

On Nov 5, 8:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> New battery - $20.00
> Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> XCSoar - Free
> I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.

XCSoar will generate valid OLC files. I had two logged Cambridge 302A
flights that failed security checks this past season, and was able to
use the XCSoar generated logs successfully.

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 5, 7:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> New battery - $20.00
> Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> XCSoar - Free
> I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.

make sure you have the GRECORD.DLL file in the root directory, that
has been working for me to generate valid files using XC soar.

Brad

[vontresc]

On Nov 5, 12:05*pm, Mike > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 8:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > New battery - $20.00
> > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > XCSoar - Free
> > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> XCSoar will generate valid OLC files. I had two logged Cambridge 302A
> flights that failed security checks this past season, and was able to
> use the XCSoar generated logs successfully.

I had a similar setup last year. I was running SoarPilot on my old
palm Treo 650 Using a bluetooth GPS. Since the battery setup in my
Ka-6 uses a 12v cigarrette lighter plug to connect the panel to the
battery, I just plugged the car adapter into the other socket on my
battery. Worked out great.

I've since upgraded to an Ipaq running SeeYou and a Volkslogger.

Pete

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Nov 5, 12:22*pm, Brad > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 7:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > New battery - $20.00
> > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > XCSoar - Free
> > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> make sure you have the GRECORD.DLL file in the root directory, that
> has been working for me to generate valid files using XC soar.
>
> Brad

Mike/Brad,
Thanks for the info. I'll try to get a flight in this weekend to
try it out.
The cigarette lighter adapter that comes with the GPS outputs the same
voltage required to keep a PDA happy, so I'll probably just make an
adapter to go from it to the PDA. Another 7 bucks added. D'oh! The
manual for the GPS unit says it's good for 12 hours, so I'm not going
to bother with power for it.
Jim

[brianDG303[_2_]]

On Nov 5, 1:10*pm, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:22*pm, Brad > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 5, 7:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > > New battery - $20.00
> > > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > > XCSoar - Free
> > > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> > make sure you have the GRECORD.DLL file in the root directory, that
> > has been working for me to generate valid files using XC soar.
>
> > Brad
>
> Mike/Brad,
> * Thanks for the info. *I'll try to get a flight in this weekend to
> try it out.
> The cigarette lighter adapter that comes with the GPS outputs the same
> voltage required to keep a PDA happy, so I'll probably just make an
> adapter to go from it to the PDA. *Another 7 bucks added. D'oh! The
> manual for the GPS unit says it's good for 12 hours, so I'm not going
> to bother with power for it.
> Jim

I've used a similar gps (Freedom Keychain) and the battery life was
never an issue. I have to say that a HP310 for $150 was worth the
extra money not to have to keep track of the level of charge and
location of that little gps, or getting them to link up, ect. Works
great though.

[RT[_2_]]

On Nov 5, 9:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> New battery - $20.00
> Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> XCSoar - Free
> I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.

I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
the web somewhere. For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
map too.

[Tim Taylor]

On Nov 5, 5:59*pm, RT > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 9:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > New battery - $20.00
> > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > XCSoar - Free
> > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> the web somewhere. *For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
> map too.

It is as you said:

Praying you read it correct in rough conditions.
Praying you figured the winds correct.
Praying you have time to redo the calculations for that second airport
when the conditions deteriorate.
Praying you estimated you position correctly.

Sorry the days of praying have been gone for 40 years.

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 5, 6:10*pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 5:59*pm, RT > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 5, 9:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > > New battery - $20.00
> > > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > > XCSoar - Free
> > > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> > I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> > the web somewhere. *For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> > one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> > And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
> > map too.
>
> It is as you said:
>
> Praying you read it correct in rough conditions.
> Praying you figured the winds correct.
> Praying you have time to redo the calculations for that second airport
> when the conditions deteriorate.
> Praying you estimated you position correctly.
>
> Sorry the days of praying have been gone for 40 years.

I saw the secret, I deserve to make that airport.................I do,
I do, I do.................!

[Mike[_8_]]

On Nov 5, 9:57*pm, Brad > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 6:10*pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 5, 5:59*pm, RT > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 5, 9:42*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > > > I just put together a REALLY cheap system for budding LVVSA XC pilots
> > > > to use. *Here's the breakdown:
> > > > iPAQ 3870 - ebay $22.50 including shipping (I bought a 'lot' of 5)
> > > > New battery - $20.00
> > > > Bluetooth GPS from Semsons $23.60 including shippinghttp://www.semsons.com/amabg108blgp.html
> > > > XCSoar - Free
> > > > I haven't determined if I can make OLC valid files yet.
>
> > > I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> > > the web somewhere. *For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> > > one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> > > And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
LOL!

> > > map too.
>
> > It is as you said:
>
> > Praying you read it correct in rough conditions.
> > Praying you figured the winds correct.
> > Praying you have time to redo the calculations for that second airport
> > when the conditions deteriorate.
> > Praying you estimated you position correctly.
>
> > Sorry the days of praying have been gone for 40 years.
>
> I saw the secret, I deserve to make that airport.................I do,
> I do, I do.................!

[Nick Hill]

RT wrote:

> I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> the web somewhere. For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
> map too.

And it still works when the electrics fail.

Nick

[Richard[_9_]]

On Nov 6, 3:09*am, Nick Hill > wrote:
> RT wrote:
> > I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> > the web somewhere. *For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> > one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> > And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
> > map too.
>
> And it still works when the electrics fail.
>
> Nick

Does it work when you forget the chart? A much more likely occurance
than electrics failing.

Richard

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Nov 6, 3:09*am, Nick Hill > wrote:
> RT wrote:
> > I use a homemade prayer wheel that I copied from a free program off
> > the web somewhere. *For the cost of laminating two pieces of paper,
> > one screw, a nut, and a washer I have a fail proof circular computer.
> > And it has a scale on the side for measuring distances on a sectional
> > map too.
>
> And it still works when the electrics fail.
>
> Nick
Great if you've enough room in your cockpit to manipulate the charts.
I don't.
In the last 15,000 kilometers of cross country flying I've done, and
the other 200+hours of just-for-fun flying, I've had exactly ONE
problem with my flight computer, and that was fixed by a push of the
reset button. I have had more 'chart' failures than that. Trying to
re-fold the chart when I fly off the section I have open often results
in torn charts, and always results in quite a bit of time I'm NOT able
to keep my eyes out of the cockpit. I'll stick to my 'situation at a
glance' system for now.

[Tony[_5_]]

I skip the wheel and go straight to praying. usually every flight
right after tow release.

Tony

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Nov 6, 9:39*am, Tony > wrote:
> I skip the wheel and go straight to praying. usually every flight
> right after tow release.
>
> Tony

Update:
The system works great, but I might recommend a different Bluetooth
GPS unit. The one I linked to in the original post has a pretty
consistant altitude error, of more than 200 feet. The horizontal
position is consistantly quite good.

[T8]

On Nov 9, 11:26*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> On Nov 6, 9:39*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > I skip the wheel and go straight to praying. usually every flight
> > right after tow release.
>
> > Tony
>
> Update:
> * The system works great, but I might recommend a different Bluetooth
> GPS unit. *The one I linked to in the original post has a pretty
> consistant altitude error, of more than 200 feet. *The horizontal
> position is consistantly quite good.

That's pretty cool....

How is XCSoar working out for you? Have you used it in competition?
Does it handle beer can start gates correctly (arm/auto start based on
radius or altitude, calculate distance from actual start point...)?
How well does it handle MATs... particularly w.r.t. to adding
turnpoints in flight? Think I've finally had it with winpilot --
developer appears completely uninterested in fixing (glaring) faults
of interest to US contest pilots. The docs with XCSoar are hugely
better... I would use this on an ipaq 38** or 39** with nmea provided
by C302.

tia,

Evan Ludeman / T8

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 9, 8:26*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> On Nov 6, 9:39*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > I skip the wheel and go straight to praying. usually every flight
> > right after tow release.
>
> > Tony
>
> Update:
> * The system works great, but I might recommend a different Bluetooth
> GPS unit. *The one I linked to in the original post has a pretty
> consistant altitude error, of more than 200 feet. *The horizontal
> position is consistantly quite good.

That altitude error is likely because the GPS is not using the WGS 84
ellipsoid. An issue with some GPS including those built into PDA/PNA/
cell phones etc.

Darryl

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Nov 9, 11:53*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Nov 9, 8:26*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 6, 9:39*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > I skip the wheel and go straight to praying. usually every flight
> > > right after tow release.
>
> > > Tony
>
> > Update:
> > * The system works great, but I might recommend a different Bluetooth
> > GPS unit. *The one I linked to in the original post has a pretty
> > consistant altitude error, of more than 200 feet. *The horizontal
> > position is consistantly quite good.
>
> That altitude error is likely because the GPS is not using the WGS 84
> ellipsoid. An issue with some GPS including those built into PDA/PNA/
> cell phones etc.
>
> Darryl

That was my initial wag, but the manual states it is using the WGS 84
model. Whatever the reason for the error, that error may be the reason
the unit is soo cheap. I have asked a couple others in the club to
bring their Bluetooth GPS units out to the field for some comparison
testing (and maybe a BBQ!)