post vs stick hangar construction

[Joa]

For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
stick (framed walls)?

Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.

Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
end).

Thanks.

Joa

[Drew Dalgleish]

On 28 Oct 2003 15:06:50 -0800, (Joa) wrote:

>For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
>hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
>is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
>stick (framed walls)?
>
>Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
>the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
>just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.
>
>Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
>end).
>
>Thanks.
>
>Joa
Depends on your local code. If you need to build a foundation with
footings below the frostline it's a lot cheaper to build a pole barn.
If you're planning a concrete floor and can build stick frame on a
slab on grade it might be a bit cheaper. Your local lumber salesman
should be happy to figure it out for you .

[BD5ER]

>....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
>is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
>stick (framed walls)?

The last few times I built a structure similar (not a real hangar yet) the post
built came out cheaper for materials. Since I built them myself I didn't
factor in the labor. I'm not much of a carpenter but the post went together
faster for me than the stick. It may be the other way around if you hire a
professional.

My current project is a 40 X 16 storage shed using wood poles/posts, and steel
studs in place of the 2Xs. They are cheaper and straight. Should look kind of
odd when I get to skinning it with all those cleco's sticking out the side
waiting for the rivets <G>

Urethane foam insulation may cost more but it goes in so fast IMHO it's worth
the cost to let someone else do it.

[Blueskies]

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....

--
Dan D.



..
"Joa" > wrote in message om...
> For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
> hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
> is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
> stick (framed walls)?
>
> Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
> the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
> just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.
>
> Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
> end).
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joa

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:

>Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....


I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".

I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.

The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
board or styrofoam.

Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
conditioner in the hot summer.

The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.

The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm


Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Jerry Wass]

What's a "rat wall" ??

Roger Halstead wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
>
> >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....
>
> I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
>
> I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
>
> The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> board or styrofoam.
>
> Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> conditioner in the hot summer.
>
> The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
>
> The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Charlie Smith]

I built a 25X35 shop about three years ago in Indiana. No building codes
applied so I could do what I wanted. I made it pole (4X6 pressure treated)
and put 6" concrete at the base of the poles to act as footers. I did not
use any other footer. I framed between the poles with 2X4 and have a 4"
concrete floor. Walls are insulated and finished in drywall as is the
ceiling (R25 blanket there). It has one 9 foot garage door, a standard 32"
entry door and four windows plus a standard shingle roof. As I did all the
work myself, I have no estimate of labor but I think I have about $8000 in
all the materials. All materials were purchased new so you may be able to
do better with second-hand doors, windows, etc.

It can be cooled easily with an 18,000 BTU window AC and a 4kW electric wall
furnace is adequate for heating (except for cost) in all but the coldest
parts of winter.

Charlie Smith


"Joa" > wrote in message
om...
> For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable
> hangar options....for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which
> is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional
> stick (framed walls)?
>
> Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between
> the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and
> just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel.
>
> Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable
> end).
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joa

[Montblack]

You the one leaning on the shovel? :-)

What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation?

Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my
airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are
the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them.

You've measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right?
<g>

--
Montblack
"Styled by the laws of nature.............Concorde"

("Roger Halstead" wrote)
<snips>
> I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".

> The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:45:16 -0600, "Montblack"
> wrote:

>You the one leaning on the shovel? :-)

What? Me get dirty? Not a chance. Besides it's not greasy enough

No, I'm the guy with little hair in a few farther down the page
working on some lay-ups.
>
>What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation?
>

If you look at the photo where the trench just inside the forms is
visible...they pour the floor and then right on over into that trench.

That forms the "rat wall" which is just an extension of the floor. In
my case it's 16 inches down. The reason for a "rat wall" which is a
lot like a shallow foundation is to ...discourage rats from making a
home under the floor which can be a real problem when you only pour a
slab.

Around here a true foundation would have only been about a foot deeper
and required one more course of cement blocks.

>Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my
>airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are
>the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them.

That is painted "barn metal" and costs about the same as dry walling
the interior. Actually the barn metal is more expensive, but takes
far less labor to install. It's a whole lot easier on your back too.
<:-)) Those sheets weight a fraction of a dry wall sheet.

>
>You've measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right?
><g>

That's going to be an interesting exercise. "THEORETICALLY" if the
landing gear is on dollies, I *should* be able to take it out corner
wise by sticking the tail in one corner next to the door, sliding the
nose out, sliding the whole works forward and then sliding it sideways
to take the tail out.

OTOH, the wing is separate until final assembly and I may do that at
the EAA building at 3BS. I would like to put it together and do the
engine testing before taking it to the airport. That would reduce the
final, final assembly to less than a week. I plan on doing the flight
testing, or at least the initial flight testing with the plane only
primered.

Then again, I have more concerns about being too old to fly it by the
time it's done, compared to getting it out of the shop. <sigh>

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Blueskies]

I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
construction but no where to post them...

Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...

--
Dan D.



..
"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
>
> >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles....
>
>
> I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
>
> I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
>
> The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> board or styrofoam.
>
> Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> conditioner in the hot summer.
>
> The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
>
> The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
>
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Larry Smith]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
.com...
> I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting
to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> construction but no where to post them...

Green is me, with envy. Post the pictures in alt.appalachian.binaries,
Dan, then announce here that you've posted them.
>
> Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
>
> --
> Dan D.
>
>

[Del Rawlins]

On 30 Oct 2003 02:56 PM, Blueskies posted the following:
> I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
> getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the construction but
> no where to post them...

If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland
Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the
need ever arise).

8^)

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:56:10 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:

>I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
>construction but no where to post them...
>
>Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...

First I pressure washed it, then acid etch followed by another wash.
Gave it 3 days to dry with the heat on, and then gave it three coats
of 2-part epoxy from Lowe's. Other than that I used no sealers.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Morgans]

"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
> On 30 Oct 2003 02:56 PM, Blueskies posted the following:
> > I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
> > getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the construction but
> > no where to post them...
>
> If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland
> Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the
> need ever arise).
>
> 8^)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins-

If I built the 48', and got a Beaver, I would gladly go through any
necessary gyrations! <g<
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:56:10 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
>
> >I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> >construction but no where to post them...
> >
> >Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
>
> First I pressure washed it, then acid etch followed by another wash.
> Gave it 3 days to dry with the heat on, and then gave it three coats
> of 2-part epoxy from Lowe's. Other than that I used no sealers.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Right. Make sure to use no sealer, as that could interfere with the epoxy.
Best to wait 30 days to put down any epoxy, to let the concrete finish 99%
of its cure.
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("Roger Halstead" wrote)
> First I pressure washed it, then acid etch followed by another wash.
> Gave it 3 days to dry with the heat on, and then gave it three coats
> of 2-part epoxy from Lowe's. Other than that I used no sealers.

We etched Margene's sister's garage floor with muric(sp?) acid after
scrubbing it clean, by hand. Our problem was humidity. I don't think we let
the floor get dry enough. It was hot and muggy out when we poured the paint
out of the can and rolled it out/on - the floor was trying to be a little
damp anyway. The other mistake was, Margene's sister drove on it too soon -
next day IIRC. Long story short, it wasn't our best effort. Paint pulled up
in high traffic areas after a year.

Dry floor, low humidity, let things dry like Roger said. You'll be glad you
did. We used Sears garage floor paint. It was us, not the paint, that was
the problem with our project. Same amount of effort doing it wrong as doing
it right - wish we had done it right.

--
Montblack

In article >,
Del Rawlins > wrote:
>
>
>On 30 Oct 2003 02:56 PM, Blueskies posted the following:
>> I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
>> getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the construction but
>> no where to post them...
>
>If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland
>Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the
>need ever arise).

And if that DeHavilland'll fit, it _otter_ be adequate for anything else!

[Merle Wagner]

Hi Dan,

What radiant system did you use ?? I am also building up in NH. Moving
from FL back to the snowbelt.

My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used
a product from Home Depot (can't remember what it was and I have never had a
problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other owners here had.

My hangar in NH will be 48x60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the
foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.

Merle
"Blueskies" > wrote in message
.com...
> I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting
to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> construction but no where to post them...
>
> Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
>
> --
> Dan D.
>
>
>
> .
> "Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> >
> > >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x
the cost of the poles....
> >
> >
> > I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> > a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> > foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> > built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> > siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> > outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> > has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> > I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
> >
> > I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> > The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> > with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
> >
> > The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> > would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> > wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> > floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> > board or styrofoam.
> >
> > Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> > heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> > conditioner in the hot summer.
> >
> > The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> > which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
> >
> > The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> > construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
> >
> >
> > Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > www.rogerhalstead.com
> > N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>

[Blueskies]

Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source.

I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account.

See: /



--
Dan D.



..
"Merle Wagner" > wrote in message link.net...
> Hi Dan,
>
> What radiant system did you use ?? I am also building up in NH. Moving
> from FL back to the snowbelt.
>
> My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used
> a product from Home Depot (can't remember what it was and I have never had a
> problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other owners here had.
>
> My hangar in NH will be 48x60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the
> foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.
>
> Merle
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now getting
> to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> > construction but no where to post them...
> >
> > Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
> before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
> >
> > --
> > Dan D.
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > "Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x
> the cost of the poles....
> > >
> > >
> > > I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> > > a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> > > foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> > > built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> > > siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> > > outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> > > has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> > > I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
> > >
> > > I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> > > The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> > > with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
> > >
> > > The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> > > would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> > > wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> > > floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> > > board or styrofoam.
> > >
> > > Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> > > heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> > > conditioner in the hot summer.
> > >
> > > The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> > > which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
> > >
> > > The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> > > construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > > www.rogerhalstead.com
> > > N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
> >
> >
>
>

[Blueskies]

I was wishing for 62 x 40, but $$$ got in the way, or should I say lack of $$$. I wanted to be sure the PT17 would fit,
if I ever find one. For now it is just a big open space - room of dreams!

--
Dan D.



..
"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message ...
> On 30 Oct 2003 02:56 PM, Blueskies posted the following:
> > I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
> > getting to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the construction but
> > no where to post them...
>
> If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland
> Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the
> need ever arise).
>
> 8^)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins-
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Fr. John Elledge]

Did you consider solar?

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
.com...
Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I
will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source.

I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account.

See:
/



--
Dan D.



..
"Merle Wagner" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Hi Dan,
>
> What radiant system did you use ?? I am also building up in NH. Moving
> from FL back to the snowbelt.
>
> My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then
used
> a product from Home Depot (can't remember what it was and I have never had
a
> problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other owners here had.
>
> My hangar in NH will be 48x60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the
> foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.
>
> Merle
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
getting
> to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> > construction but no where to post them...
> >
> > Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
> before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
> >
> > --
> > Dan D.
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > "Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x
> the cost of the poles....
> > >
> > >
> > > I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> > > a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> > > foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> > > built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> > > siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> > > outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> > > has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> > > I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
> > >
> > > I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> > > The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> > > with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
> > >
> > > The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> > > would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> > > wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> > > floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> > > board or styrofoam.
> > >
> > > Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> > > heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> > > conditioner in the hot summer.
> > >
> > > The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> > > which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
> > >
> > > The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> > > construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > > www.rogerhalstead.com
> > > N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
> >
> >
>
>

[Morgans]

"Fr. John Elledge" > wrote in message
...
> Did you consider solar?

Are you kidding? How many square feet of collectors would it take to get
70,000 BTU's?

I really think that 70,000 BTU's may be calling it close. May have to put
another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days.

Nice job. Build something in there to make your building proud!
--
Jim in NC

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:21:56 GMT, "Merle Wagner"
> wrote:

>Hi Dan,
>
>What radiant system did you use ?? I am also building up in NH. Moving
>from FL back to the snowbelt.
>
>My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used
>a product from Home Depot (can't remember what it was and I have never had a
>problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other owners here had.
>
>My hangar in NH will be 48x60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the
>foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.

I put in a 75,000 BTU IR tube heater. It heats all the objects in the
room. You open the door in the winter, drive in, shut the doors and
it's warm ... Tools are comfortable to handle in the mornings.
Costs less than half to heat as my house even with the two big garage
doors.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Blueskies]

Yes, not cost effective this far north...

--
Dan D.



..
"Fr. John Elledge" > wrote in message ...
> Did you consider solar?
>
> "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> .com...
> Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I
> will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source.
>
> I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account.
>
> See:
>
/
>
>
>
> --
> Dan D.
>
>
>
> .
> "Merle Wagner" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > What radiant system did you use ?? I am also building up in NH. Moving
> > from FL back to the snowbelt.
> >
> > My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then
> used
> > a product from Home Depot (can't remember what it was and I have never had
> a
> > problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other owners here had.
> >
> > My hangar in NH will be 48x60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the
> > foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.
> >
> > Merle
> > "Blueskies" > wrote in message
> > .com...
> > > I am putting up a 48x48 'hanger' with radiant heat floor. Just now
> getting
> > to the wiring stage. I've got pictures of the
> > > construction but no where to post them...
> > >
> > > Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon
> > before it gets too cold or wait 'till spring...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan D.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > "Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:38:48 GMT, "Blueskies" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x
> > the cost of the poles....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with
> > > > a rat wall type foundation. (I wish I had gone with a standard
> > > > foundation although no problems with the rat wall). We used stick
> > > > built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl
> > > > siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the
> > > > outside. The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling
> > > > has 16 inches of cellulose blown in. If condensation is not a problem
> > > > I'd use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight".
> > > >
> > > > I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete.
> > > > The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone
> > > > with a pole type construction finished in the same manner.
> > > >
> > > > The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which
> > > > would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat
> > > > wall is thermal isolation. I'd put a thermal barrier between the
> > > > floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead
> > > > board or styrofoam.
> > > >
> > > > Even with the two big doors plus the man door it's quite economical to
> > > > heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air
> > > > conditioner in the hot summer.
> > > >
> > > > The shop is just north of my garage, but I'm based at 3BS (Midland)
> > > > which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS.
> > > >
> > > > The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the
> > > > construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > > > www.rogerhalstead.com
> > > > N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Blueskies]

Indeed that is the plan. I know the 70,000 is close, but I don't plan to keep it at 70. As long as it stays above 40 I
will be happy. Good idea about the supplemental heater...

I hope the building is very proud in a couple of years....

--
Dan D.



..
"Morgans" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Fr. John Elledge" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Did you consider solar?
>
> Are you kidding? How many square feet of collectors would it take to get
> 70,000 BTU's?
>
> I really think that 70,000 BTU's may be calling it close. May have to put
> another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days.
>
> Nice job. Build something in there to make your building proud!
> --
> Jim in NC
>
>

[John Stricker]

My shop is 60 X 60 X 14 with in floor radiant heat. It has no problem at
all staying warm with a 100,000 btu boiler. One thing you need to remember
is with radiant floor heat you will not have the thermostat set as high,
you don't need to. When we first turned ours on we set it at 70 and that
was too warm. Sweating warm when we were working on something. We now
leave it on about 60 or so.

John Stricker

I have all kinds of pictures of the shop construction, but nowhere to host
them so screw it. 8-)

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Fr. John Elledge" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Did you consider solar?
>
> Are you kidding? How many square feet of collectors would it take to get
> 70,000 BTU's?
>
> I really think that 70,000 BTU's may be calling it close. May have to put
> another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days.
>
> Nice job. Build something in there to make your building proud!
> --
> Jim in NC
>
>