Nav antenna diplexers

[Paul Lee]

Does anybody know if those things work? They split a nav antenna
signal into a VOR and glide slope unit? Is significant signal lost?

----------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee, SQ2000 canard project: www.abri.com/sq2000

[Rob Cherney]

On 28 Oct 2003 17:17:40 -0800, (Paul Lee)
wrote:

>Does anybody know if those things work? They split a nav antenna
>signal into a VOR and glide slope unit? Is significant signal lost?

The diplexer is a filter that provides good signal strength to each
receiver (about 1 dB of loss). It works by recognizing that a 1/2
wave dipole at Nav frequencies can also work reasonably well as a 3/2
wave antenna at Glideslope frequencies.

See:

http://www.rami.com/gaa5.htm#AV-570

Rob-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net

[Jim Weir]

->Does anybody know if those things work?

Yes, I know.


They split a nav antenna
->signal into a VOR and glide slope unit?

That's the definition.


Is significant signal lost?

Not if you do it right.


Here's the deal, and a way to make one for less than $5.

The VOR "catswhiskers" antenna on the top of the vertical fin is cut for
quarter-wave at 113 MHz. Fortunately for us, that is a good threequarter-wave
antenna at the glideslope frequencies, at least close enough for government
work. If you have either a ferrite broadband balun or a quarter-wave coax
balun, those will also work at the glideslope band.

What you've got to do is to couple off the glideslope signal without affecting
the VOR signal. I thought about this for a long time before I came to the
conclusion that a series-resonant circuit at the glideslope band, if done
properly, would introduce minimal loss at the VOR frequency. How, I thought, to
make an inexpensive series resonant circuit?

Hm. How about we take advantage of the fact that a round straight wire has
inductance associated with it. Somewhere around 20 nanohenries per inch for #22
wire. Disk ceramic capacitors have #22 wire leads. How much inductance does a
10 picofarad capacitor need to resonate at 320 MHz? Wow. 20 nanohenries. So,
a 10 pf capacitor with half-inch leads on both sides will be a series resonant
circuit (dead AC short) at the glideslope frequencies.

Get yourself a small metal "hobby box" that will have room for 3 BNC connectors.
Drill 3 holes for the connectors, two very close to one another and another one
exactly one inch away from either one of the other two. Connect the two close
ones with a short piece of heavy solid uninsulated wire (#16 or so -- stripped
Romex will do well). Call the one that is exactly 1" away from the remaining
connector "Antenna In" and the other one "VOR Out". Now connect that 10 pf disk
ceramic capacitor from the "Antenna In" point to the remaining connector. Call
that remaining connector "Glideslope Out".

Why doesn't it affect the VOR? Because that 10 pf capacitor has an impedance of
somewhere around 150 ohms down at the VOR frequencies. As somebody else noted,
shorting the glideslope connector to ground or leaving it open will not cause
more than 1 dB of mismatch to occur.

Sweet, huh? Hm. I smell a Kitplanes column coming up... {;-)


Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Gig Giacona]

I have no idea if that will work or for that matter what the hell
nanohenries (and neither does my spell checker)are but it does sound like
fun. Now my question, can someone that has no clue as to what you wrote do
much, all or any of the electronics work on their kit built IF they are
going with an all electric IFR set-up?

If so PLEASE tell me you have a book. I'm still a ways off on my plane from
having to do this stuff but I am thinking about it.


Gig Giacona
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Here's the deal, and a way to make one for less than $5.
>
> The VOR "catswhiskers" antenna on the top of the vertical fin is cut for
> quarter-wave at 113 MHz. Fortunately for us, that is a good
threequarter-wave
> antenna at the glideslope frequencies, at least close enough for
government
> work. If you have either a ferrite broadband balun or a quarter-wave coax
> balun, those will also work at the glideslope band.
>
> What you've got to do is to couple off the glideslope signal without
affecting
> the VOR signal. I thought about this for a long time before I came to the
> conclusion that a series-resonant circuit at the glideslope band, if done
> properly, would introduce minimal loss at the VOR frequency. How, I
thought, to
> make an inexpensive series resonant circuit?
>
> Hm. How about we take advantage of the fact that a round straight wire
has
> inductance associated with it. Somewhere around 20 nanohenries per inch
for #22
> wire. Disk ceramic capacitors have #22 wire leads. How much inductance
does a
> 10 picofarad capacitor need to resonate at 320 MHz? Wow. 20 nanohenries.
So,
> a 10 pf capacitor with half-inch leads on both sides will be a series
resonant
> circuit (dead AC short) at the glideslope frequencies.
>
> Get yourself a small metal "hobby box" that will have room for 3 BNC
connectors.
> Drill 3 holes for the connectors, two very close to one another and
another one
> exactly one inch away from either one of the other two. Connect the two
close
> ones with a short piece of heavy solid uninsulated wire (#16 or so --
stripped
> Romex will do well). Call the one that is exactly 1" away from the
remaining
> connector "Antenna In" and the other one "VOR Out". Now connect that 10
pf disk
> ceramic capacitor from the "Antenna In" point to the remaining connector.
Call
> that remaining connector "Glideslope Out".
>
> Why doesn't it affect the VOR? Because that 10 pf capacitor has an
impedance of
> somewhere around 150 ohms down at the VOR frequencies. As somebody else
noted,
> shorting the glideslope connector to ground or leaving it open will not
cause
> more than 1 dB of mismatch to occur.
>
> Sweet, huh? Hm. I smell a Kitplanes column coming up... {;-)
>
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Paul Lee]

Yeah, 5 bucks of parts and $300 of time - maybe less if you are
doing the stuff already.

I already ordered the commercial unit from Van's for $70 bucks
and its in a neat little box that tucks on the panel somewhere.

Sheesh, I already have about 2000 hours in my kit and want to
fly the thing before I die of old age. Enough fun.

--------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee SQ2000 canard project www.abri.com/sq2000
Almost finished.

Jim Weir > wrote in message >...
> ->Does anybody know if those things work?
>
> Yes, I know.
>
>
> They split a nav antenna
> ->signal into a VOR and glide slope unit?
>
> That's the definition.
>
>
> Is significant signal lost?
>
> Not if you do it right.
>
>
> Here's the deal, and a way to make one for less than $5.
>
> The VOR "catswhiskers" antenna on the top of the vertical fin is cut for
> quarter-wave at 113 MHz. Fortunately for us, that is a good threequarter-wave
> antenna at the glideslope frequencies, at least close enough for government
> work. If you have either a ferrite broadband balun or a quarter-wave coax
> balun, those will also work at the glideslope band.
>
> What you've got to do is to couple off the glideslope signal without affecting
> the VOR signal. I thought about this for a long time before I came to the
> conclusion that a series-resonant circuit at the glideslope band, if done
> properly, would introduce minimal loss at the VOR frequency. How, I thought, to
> make an inexpensive series resonant circuit?
>
> Hm. How about we take advantage of the fact that a round straight wire has
> inductance associated with it. Somewhere around 20 nanohenries per inch for #22
> wire. Disk ceramic capacitors have #22 wire leads. How much inductance does a
> 10 picofarad capacitor need to resonate at 320 MHz? Wow. 20 nanohenries. So,
> a 10 pf capacitor with half-inch leads on both sides will be a series resonant
> circuit (dead AC short) at the glideslope frequencies.
>
> Get yourself a small metal "hobby box" that will have room for 3 BNC connectors.
> Drill 3 holes for the connectors, two very close to one another and another one
> exactly one inch away from either one of the other two. Connect the two close
> ones with a short piece of heavy solid uninsulated wire (#16 or so -- stripped
> Romex will do well). Call the one that is exactly 1" away from the remaining
> connector "Antenna In" and the other one "VOR Out". Now connect that 10 pf disk
> ceramic capacitor from the "Antenna In" point to the remaining connector. Call
> that remaining connector "Glideslope Out".
>
> Why doesn't it affect the VOR? Because that 10 pf capacitor has an impedance of
> somewhere around 150 ohms down at the VOR frequencies. As somebody else noted,
> shorting the glideslope connector to ground or leaving it open will not cause
> more than 1 dB of mismatch to occur.
>
> Sweet, huh? Hm. I smell a Kitplanes column coming up... {;-)
>
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Paul Lee]

BTW. Somewhere I saw a Comm antenna diplexer that works both
ways - quite expensive (about $500). You can run two transreceivers
using one antenna.

Did you see one of them - I forgot where I saw it.
Can somebody give me the URL?

If you have used or tested them do they work OK?
Signal loss, problems... etc....?
Never mind the innards circuit theory...


Jim Weir > wrote in message >...
> ->Does anybody know if those things work?
>
> Yes, I know.
>
>
> They split a nav antenna
> ->signal into a VOR and glide slope unit?
>
> That's the definition.
>
>
> Is significant signal lost?
>
> Not if you do it right.
>
>
> Here's the deal, and a way to make one for less than $5.
>
> The VOR "catswhiskers" antenna on the top of the vertical fin is cut for
> quarter-wave at 113 MHz. Fortunately for us, that is a good threequarter-wave
> antenna at the glideslope frequencies, at least close enough for government
> work. If you have either a ferrite broadband balun or a quarter-wave coax
> balun, those will also work at the glideslope band.
>
> What you've got to do is to couple off the glideslope signal without affecting
> the VOR signal. I thought about this for a long time before I came to the
> conclusion that a series-resonant circuit at the glideslope band, if done
> properly, would introduce minimal loss at the VOR frequency. How, I thought, to
> make an inexpensive series resonant circuit?
>
> Hm. How about we take advantage of the fact that a round straight wire has
> inductance associated with it. Somewhere around 20 nanohenries per inch for #22
> wire. Disk ceramic capacitors have #22 wire leads. How much inductance does a
> 10 picofarad capacitor need to resonate at 320 MHz? Wow. 20 nanohenries. So,
> a 10 pf capacitor with half-inch leads on both sides will be a series resonant
> circuit (dead AC short) at the glideslope frequencies.
>
> Get yourself a small metal "hobby box" that will have room for 3 BNC connectors.
> Drill 3 holes for the connectors, two very close to one another and another one
> exactly one inch away from either one of the other two. Connect the two close
> ones with a short piece of heavy solid uninsulated wire (#16 or so -- stripped
> Romex will do well). Call the one that is exactly 1" away from the remaining
> connector "Antenna In" and the other one "VOR Out". Now connect that 10 pf disk
> ceramic capacitor from the "Antenna In" point to the remaining connector. Call
> that remaining connector "Glideslope Out".
>
> Why doesn't it affect the VOR? Because that 10 pf capacitor has an impedance of
> somewhere around 150 ohms down at the VOR frequencies. As somebody else noted,
> shorting the glideslope connector to ground or leaving it open will not cause
> more than 1 dB of mismatch to occur.
>
> Sweet, huh? Hm. I smell a Kitplanes column coming up... {;-)
>
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Rob Cherney]

On 29 Oct 2003 20:31:26 -0800, (Paul Lee)
wrote:

>BTW. Somewhere I saw a Comm antenna diplexer that works both
>ways - quite expensive (about $500). You can run two transreceivers
>using one antenna.
>
>Did you see one of them - I forgot where I saw it.
>Can somebody give me the URL?

Try here:

http://www.comant.com/prodpages/ci601.html

>If you have used or tested them do they work OK?
>Signal loss, problems... etc....?

Sorry, but I've never tried one. Comant, the manufacturer, is a
respected name in the business, though. Signal loss is specified as
3+ dB during receive and <0.5 dB during transmit.

>Never mind the innards circuit theory...

Wilco.

Rob-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Cherney e-mail: rcherney(at)comcast(dot)net