Corvair engine site needed

[pintlar]

I thought I had bookmarked the site where a gent had all kinds of data and
sources for Corvair engines for adaptation to aviation.
Now I can't locate that site.
Hope someone one can help me find any Corvair aviation engine site.
in advance. . .thanks.
PS. Is 100 hp about max one can get out of a Beetle 4 cyc opposed air
cooled engine w/o turbo charging?

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Nov 30, 2:06*pm, "Pintlar" > wrote:

> PS. *Is 100 hp about max one can get out of a Beetle 4 cyc opposed air
> cooled engine w/o turbo charging?

If by "100 hp" you mean "about 42 horsepower maximum continuous," then
I think you're in the ballpark. See the R.S. Hoover blog for details.

Thanks, Bob K.

[Jim Ham]

Pintlar wrote:
> I thought I had bookmarked the site where a gent had all kinds of data and
> sources for Corvair engines for adaptation to aviation.
> Now I can't locate that site.
> Hope someone one can help me find any Corvair aviation engine site.
> in advance. . .thanks.
> PS. Is 100 hp about max one can get out of a Beetle 4 cyc opposed air
> cooled engine w/o turbo charging?
You will get a lot of opinions about this. Look a aircraft that can use
a VW or an O200 and compare performance. Q2 vs. Q200 is one. My own
opinion is that a VW can produce about 50hp continuously and reliably.
Anything over this and you start with valve problems and cracked cases.
Look at Great Plains <http://www.greatplainsas.com/>. Perhaps the
exception is Limbach
<http://www.limflug.de/index.php?page=homepage&lang=eng> but you'll pay
for it. Remember that talk is cheap.

Rutan wanted about 65hp for the vari-eze. He started with a VW but
switched to a C85 after a few bad experiences. He never designed an
airplane for a VW again.

[Peter Dohm]

"Pintlar" > wrote in message
...
>I thought I had bookmarked the site where a gent had all kinds of data and
>sources for Corvair engines for adaptation to aviation.
> Now I can't locate that site.
> Hope someone one can help me find any Corvair aviation engine site.
> in advance. . .thanks.
> PS. Is 100 hp about max one can get out of a Beetle 4 cyc opposed air
> cooled engine w/o turbo charging?
>
To answer your first question:
http://www.flycorvair.com/

As to the second, 100 hp is way more than you can get from the VW.
Actually, I have had my dissagreements with Veeduber over the true
figure--because I am willing to consider maximum continuous power as a
percentage of maximum take-off power and also because I am willing to
suppose that maximum continuous power can be increased slightly (possible as
much as 10%) by the use of a cooling fan to augment the cooling pressure.
But I would personally forget about 100 hp from a VW, and would not
personally consider anything that ordinarily needed more than 45 hp from a
VW for extended periods during the climb.

Peter

[David E. Powell]

I bet the Honda Civics and some of the Subarus have some pretty neat
light engines in them.

The past decade or two's "rice rocket" obsession in car customizing
should have some neat impact on light, powerful engines and parts
available to the airplane homebuilder.

[Peter Dohm]

"David E. Powell" > wrote in message
...
>I bet the Honda Civics and some of the Subarus have some pretty neat
> light engines in them.
>
> The past decade or two's "rice rocket" obsession in car customizing
> should have some neat impact on light, powerful engines and parts
> available to the airplane homebuilder.

Keep in mind that most of those super hot little engines are run at full
power for applications similar to drag racing. Presuming that they can
"last" that way, 50 hours is likely to be a very old engine.

Just so you know, I was a long time advocate of automotive conversions and I
really do still like a lot of them; but, like so many of us, I am getting
old--to the point that, if I do finally get to build, I am likely to chose
something like an RV-9 and a Lycoming O-235. The problem is that there are
a couple of old rules of thumb--that still seem to work pretty well--and the
RV-9 has replaced the Tailwind, the Vari-EZ, and a couple of others as the
established design that comes closest to meeting or beating the probable
performance and efficiency of everything on my personal scratch pad.

Now, admittedly, there are still a few designs on that scratch pad that are
a lot faster--and a few that would probably be more fun including feeding my
personal pride--but I still have to admit to myself that "dispatch
reliability" is a very real component of both performance and efficiency,
and I also know that those old type certified "dynosaur" engines can run as
lean as you please below about 60 percent power--and the RV-9 have very good
published numbers at 55 percent. When you want to really cover the
distance, for those few long trips per year, you just rev it up and pour on
the fuel. Still not super fast; but fast enough to be a seroius contender!

That's just the real world as I see it.
Peter

[Neal Fulco]

On Nov 30, 4:06*pm, "Pintlar" > wrote:
> I thought I had bookmarked the site where a gent had all kinds of data and
> sources for Corvair engines for adaptation to aviation.
> Now I can't locate that site.
> Hope someone one can help me find *any Corvair aviation engine site.
> in advance. . .thanks.
> PS. *Is 100 hp about max one can get out of a Beetle 4 cyc opposed air
> cooled engine w/o turbo charging?

Check out the following sites for Corvair info.

home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/
www.flycorvair.com
www.billclapp.com
www.flywithgus.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
www.corvaircraft.com

Just about everything you need to know can be found on these sites.
Enjoy

Neal

[Fred the Red Shirt]

On Dec 4 2009, 6:41*pm, "David E. Powell" >
wrote:
> I bet the Honda Civics and some of the Subarus have some pretty neat
> light engines in them.
> ...

I believe the Civic CVCC engines have had cast iron blocks and
they may still be cast iron. Subarus were always water cooled
and still are, right?

I am surprised that motorcycle engines, like the BMW footwarmers,
are not a popular starting point for conversions. I'm sure there are
good reasons for that, just don't know what they are.

--

FF

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Fred the Red Shirt schreef:

> I am surprised that motorcycle engines, like the BMW footwarmers,
> are not a popular starting point for conversions. I'm sure there are
> good reasons for that, just don't know what they are.

Whatever the reasons, they must depend on local factors, such as
availability of engines, spares, workmanship. Here in tiny Belgium I
hear about spreading use of a BMW bike engine conversion.

http://www.asa-be.com/images/PhotoGallery_BCR2/OO-G01/OO-G23.JPG

shows an example - observe the extra cowling width, and the very long
exhaust pipe.

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

jan olieslagers schreef:
> Fred the Red Shirt schreef:
>
>> I am surprised that motorcycle engines, like the BMW footwarmers,
>> are not a popular starting point for conversions. I'm sure there are
>> good reasons for that, just don't know what they are.
>
> Whatever the reasons, they must depend on local factors, such as
> availability of engines, spares, workmanship. Here in tiny Belgium I
> hear about spreading use of a BMW bike engine conversion.
>
> http://www.asa-be.com/images/PhotoGallery_BCR2/OO-G01/OO-G23.JPG
>
> shows an example - observe the extra cowling width, and the very long
> exhaust pipe.

Can't be sure but might well be from this place:
http://www.takeoff-ul.de/
(and good luck with the Teuton lingo...)

[Stealth Pilot[_3_]]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:30:28 +0000, jan olieslagers
> wrote:

>jan olieslagers schreef:
>> Fred the Red Shirt schreef:
>>
>>> I am surprised that motorcycle engines, like the BMW footwarmers,
>>> are not a popular starting point for conversions. I'm sure there are
>>> good reasons for that, just don't know what they are.
>>
>> Whatever the reasons, they must depend on local factors, such as
>> availability of engines, spares, workmanship. Here in tiny Belgium I
>> hear about spreading use of a BMW bike engine conversion.
>>
>> http://www.asa-be.com/images/PhotoGallery_BCR2/OO-G01/OO-G23.JPG
>>
>> shows an example - observe the extra cowling width, and the very long
>> exhaust pipe.
>
>Can't be sure but might well be from this place:
>http://www.takeoff-ul.de/
>(and good luck with the Teuton lingo...)

I looked into this a while ago.
there are no engines available as spares so the only way of obtaining
one is to buy a bike and throw away the frame.
the bikes cost $33,000 australian dollars
a jabiru engine is less than half that and it was designed as an
aircraft engine.
does that make any sense to you?

Stealth Pilot

[Ralf Mueller]

Stealth Pilot wrote:
> I looked into this a while ago.
> there are no engines available as spares so the only way of obtaining
> one is to buy a bike and throw away the frame.
> the bikes cost $33,000 australian dollars
> a jabiru engine is less than half that and it was designed as an
> aircraft engine.
> does that make any sense to you?
>
> Stealth Pilot

German ebay lists quite a few for reasonable price:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-BMW-R-1100-S_W0QQitemZ130324196252QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorrad _Kraftradteile?hash=item1e57ed6b9c
http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-BMW-R-1100-GS_W0QQitemZ260530652424QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorra d_Kraftradteile?hash=item3ca8d64508
http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-Motor-R850-R1100-R-1100-R-850-R-GS-RS_W0QQitemZ200403305215QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorra d_Kraftradteile?hash=item2ea8f7c2ff
http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-R-1100-GS-R-Motor-Triebwerk-Engine-TOP_W0QQitemZ360154973239QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorr ad_Kraftradteile?hash=item53dae8c437
http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-R-1100-GS-R-Motor-Triebwerk-Engine-TOP_W0QQitemZ360154973293QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorr ad_Kraftradteile?hash=item53dae8c46d
....

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ralf Mueller" > wrote
>
> German ebay lists quite a few for reasonable price:

How much would it cost to find someone who would crate and ship on to the
US?
--
Jim in NC

[Ralf Mueller]

Morgans wrote:
> "Ralf Mueller" > wrote
>> German ebay lists quite a few for reasonable price:
>
> How much would it cost to find someone who would crate and ship on to the
> US?
finding someone shouldn't be the problem ;-)
but shipping cost could. I recently ordered a canopy and fuel tank from
Sonex. Freight cost (air freight) and tax was twice the value of the
goods. Sea freight is not much less (and more risky).

[Philippe[_4_]]

le dimanche 17 janvier 2010 19:22, Morgans s'est penché sur son
écritoire numérique et a écrit:

> How much would it cost to find someone who would crate and ship on to
> the US?
I guess more than $500. Ask UPS for a 200lb parcel

--
Pub: http://www.cd1d.com/
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

[Philippe[_4_]]

le dimanche 17 janvier 2010 19:32, Ralf Mueller s'est penché sur son
écritoire numérique et a écrit:

>> How much would it cost to find someone who would crate and ship on to
>> the US?
> finding someone shouldn't be the problem ;-)
> but shipping cost could. I recently ordered a canopy and fuel tank
> from Sonex. Freight cost (air freight) and tax was twice the value of
> the goods. Sea freight is not much less (and more risky).
Volume cost as weight...

--
Pub: http://www.cd1d.com/
Philippe Vessaire Ò¿Ó¬

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Morgans schreef:
> "Ralf Mueller" > wrote
>> German ebay lists quite a few for reasonable price:
>
> How much would it cost to find someone who would crate and ship on to the
> US?

Finding someone shouldn't be too hard - all else failing, one could try
bribing yours truly };-) Crating should be done by the supplier, and
these Germans have a reputation for doing mechanical jobs solidly, so
that's not a problem either.
Or for a second hand engine, yours truly might well be able to dig up a
used pallet somewhere, strap the engine to it, and add some planking around.

But indeed shipping a single piece would be a bit awkward, the one thing
to make sense is to ship a container full of them. Even a 20" container
would easily hold 50 pcs, though, at a rough estimate - would there be a
market for 50 of these engines at a reasonable price?

And the comparison with the Jabiru is justified: what advantages has the
modified BMW over Jabiru 2200? The "reasonable" price for the BMW
should, IMHO, have to be lower than the Jabiru's. Not an easy ambition
at today's $-€ rates.

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Jan 17, 6:32*am, Ralf Mueller > wrote:
> Stealth Pilot wrote:
> > I looked into this a while ago.
> > there are no engines available as spares so the only way of obtaining
> > one is to buy a bike and throw away the frame.
> > the bikes cost $33,000 australian dollars
> > a jabiru engine is less than half that and it was designed as an
> > aircraft engine.
> > does that make any sense to you?
>
> > Stealth Pilot
>
> German ebay lists quite a few for reasonable price:http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-BMW-R-1100-S_W0QQitemZ130324196252QQcmdZView...http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-BMW-R-1100-GS_W0QQitemZ260530652424QQcmdZVie...http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-Motor-R850-R1100-R-1100-R-850-R-GS-RS_W0QQitem...http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-R-1100-GS-R-Motor-Triebwerk-Engine-TOP_W0QQite...http://cgi.ebay.de/BMW-R-1100-GS-R-Motor-Triebwerk-Engine-TOP_W0QQite...
> ...

If I'm not mistaken, those are all BMW "OilHeads" as opposed to the
older "AirHeads". One nice thing about either is that parts are still
available. The Airhead engines are a LOT simpler (aircooled 2 valve
pushrod), but make less horsepower. They may well be lighter too. I
weighed one of my R100 engines many years ago, I think it came in
right around 100 pounds without the exhaust system. I don't know what
they 'claim' for HP, but it isn't much.