Very nice flight this morning

[Mark]

I got off a little later than expected due to
an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
free, there was no better way to spend the
morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
and it took on importance, so I brought her
down, though it seemed like she landed
herself.

I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
we have...that didn't come for free.

Living in America,
---
Mark

[a[_3_]]

On Dec 6, 11:54*am, Mark > wrote:
> I got off a little later than expected due to
> an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
> that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
> flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
> the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
> time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
> sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
> as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
> absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
> free, there was no better way to spend the
> morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
> remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
> and it took on importance, so I brought her
> down, though it seemed like she landed
> herself.
>
> I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
> celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
> we have...that didn't come for free.
>
> Living in America,
> ---
> Mark

There was a bad frost at KBED a long time ago when I training for my
private, long before first solo. My instructor and I went to the Piper
140 -- windows were coated with frost. He suggested we turn the
airplane to the east so the sun would work its magic. As we were
moving it, another instructor walked by, saw what we were doing, and
asked "Hey, moving it closer to the sun?". We were of course doing
that, but I think the difference in the inverse square of the distance
to the sun mattered less than the change in cosine of the angle of
incidence. But what did I know, beitng a student pilot?

I would expect that instructor would put to shame the spammers on this
site: he had an overpowering intellect AND a sense of humor. Oh, and
he was a real pilot too. He would not be a "Loser On Line".

[Mark]

On Dec 6, 12:12*pm, a > wrote:
> On Dec 6, 11:54*am, Mark > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I got off a little later than expected due to
> > an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
> > that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
> > flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
> > the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
> > time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
> > sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
> > as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
> > absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
> > free, there was no better way to spend the
> > morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
> > remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
> > and it took on importance, so I brought her
> > down, though it seemed like she landed
> > herself.
>
> > I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
> > celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
> > we have...that didn't come for free.
>
> > Living in America,
> > ---
> > Mark
>
> There was a bad frost at KBED a long time ago when I training for my
> private, long before first solo. My instructor and I went to the Piper
> 140 -- windows were coated with frost. He suggested we turn the
> airplane to the east so the sun would work its magic. As we were
> moving it, another instructor walked by, saw what we were doing, and
> asked "Hey, moving it closer to the sun?". We were of course doing
> that, but I think the difference in the inverse square of the distance
> to the sun mattered less than the change in cosine of the angle of
> incidence. But what did I know, beitng a student pilot?
>
> I would expect that instructor would put to shame the spammers on this
> site: he had an overpowering intellect AND a sense of humor. Oh, and
> he was a real pilot too. He would not be a "Loser On Line".- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Funny that you should mention turning the plane,
cause that's just what we did. Also, it so happens
that this 172 is painted black which speeds up the
process exponentially.

While waiting a German fellow brought his immaculate LSA
Sportcruiser out. What a beauty with that plush interior, blue
tinted bubble and graceful lines. I felt lucky just to touch it,
but when he offered to let me fly it with him, or, take it up
with our CFI mutual friend, I was blown away.

As he taxied away and I headed back to the plane,
I also had to stop and watch the scarlett sunrise
with a fellow in a new Cirrus SR-22. He was having a
very good morning and we chatted about his ride
too. He was very encouraging, heh, and told me I
could get one like his for about.."six and a half".
Thats $650,000.00 Seems like too many zeros,
even for me.

That Arion Lightning is looking better and better!

Yeah, loser on line is following me around sniffing
my bicycle seat. I guess he thinks I read his posts.
Not even. haaa I'm sure your instructor was a cool
dude.

--
Mark

[Jeffrey Bloss]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:48:06 -0800 (PST), Mark wrote:

> As he taxied away and I headed back to the plane,
> I also had to stop and watch the scarlett sunrise
> with a fellow in a new Cirrus SR-22. He was having a
> very good morning and we chatted about his ride
> too. He was very encouraging, heh, and told me I
> could get one like his for about.."six and a half".
> Thats $650,000.00 Seems like too many zeros,
> *even for a rich guy like me*.

Even for you?

LOL

Oh I forgot a Markiesm.

Claims To Be Uber-Wealthy - "It's only $500,000 dollars..."~misc.writing
--
_?_ Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
(@ @) Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-oOO-(_)--OOo-------------------------------[ Groucho Marx ]--
grok! Devoted Microsoft User

[Jeffrey Bloss]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:12:24 -0800 (PST), a wrote:

>> Living in America,
>> ---
>> Mark
>
> There was a bad frost at KBED

You two are perfect "a", Mark(ie) is a freak and you're a gun toting
cretin. Enjoy!
--
_?_ Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
(@ @) Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-oOO-(_)--OOo-------------------------------[ Groucho Marx ]--
grok! Devoted Microsoft User

[Toilet Peppermint Wonderland]

Pee Pee Township is one of the fourteen townships of Pike County,
Ohio, United States. The 2000 census found 7,776 people in the
township, including 4,433 people in the village of Waverly, and 3,343
in the unincorporated portions of the township.[3]

Fore more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pee_Pee_Township,_Pike_County,_Ohio

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
a > wrote:

> There was a bad frost at KBED a long time ago when I training for my
> private, long before first solo. My instructor and I went to the Piper
> 140 -- windows were coated with frost. He suggested we turn the
> airplane to the east so the sun would work its magic. As we were
> moving it, another instructor walked by, saw what we were doing, and
> asked "Hey, moving it closer to the sun?". We were of course doing
> that, but I think the difference in the inverse square of the distance
> to the sun mattered less than the change in cosine of the angle of
> incidence. But what did I know, beitng a student pilot?
>
> I would expect that instructor would put to shame the spammers on this
> site: he had an overpowering intellect AND a sense of humor. Oh, and
> he was a real pilot too. He would not be a "Loser On Line".

Reminds me of my first visit to the local wave camp three years ago.
Showed up really early in the morning, got the club two-seater (which we
had trailered over from our usual airport) out of the hangar, prepped it
for flight, and then let it sit out in the sun to clear the frost from
the wings.

As we're standing around talking and waiting, my instructor, who was
once head of the Navy Test Pilot School, turns to a younger club
instructor who I think had no non-glider experience and asks, "How much
frost on the wings starts to worry you?"

The younger instructor gave him an interesting look, and replied, "ANY
frost on the wings worries me...."

We waited for it all to sublime, then had a nice flight. And I learned
an interesting lesson on the different attitudes people can take. (And
I'm not saying either one was necessarily wrong, it's just interesting
how different the attitudes were and how clearly they were shaped by
their respective past experiences.)

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[george]

On Dec 7, 8:47*am, Mike Ash > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> *a > wrote:
> > There was a bad frost at KBED a long time ago when I training for my
> > private, long before first solo. My instructor and I went to the Piper
> > 140 -- windows were coated with frost. He suggested we turn the
> > airplane to the east so the sun would work its magic. As we were
> > moving it, another instructor walked by, saw what we were doing, and
> > asked "Hey, moving it closer to the sun?". We were of course doing
> > that, but I think the difference in the inverse square of the distance
> > to the sun mattered less than the change in cosine of the angle of
> > incidence. But what did I know, beitng a student pilot?
>
> > I would expect that instructor would put to shame the spammers on this
> > site: he had an overpowering intellect AND a sense of humor. Oh, and
> > he was a real pilot too. He would not be a "Loser On Line".
>
> Reminds me of my first visit to the local wave camp three years ago.
> Showed up really early in the morning, got the club two-seater (which we
> had trailered over from our usual airport) out of the hangar, prepped it
> for flight, and then let it sit out in the sun to clear the frost from
> the wings.
>
> As we're standing around talking and waiting, my instructor, who was
> once head of the Navy Test Pilot School, turns to a younger club
> instructor who I think had no non-glider experience and asks, "How much
> frost on the wings starts to worry you?"
>
> The younger instructor gave him an interesting look, and replied, "ANY
> frost on the wings worries me...."
>
> We waited for it all to sublime, then had a nice flight. And I learned
> an interesting lesson on the different attitudes people can take. (And
> I'm not saying either one was necessarily wrong, it's just interesting
> how different the attitudes were and how clearly they were shaped by
> their respective past experiences.)

Great big smilie...
I have a feeling that frost on the wings of a jet fighter wouldn't
have the same result as on the wings of a sailplane or even a Club
training machine.
Of course I'd like to be offered the chance to fly one of those there
fighters to see if I'm right. :-)

[a[_3_]]

On Dec 6, 2:59*pm, george > wrote:
> On Dec 7, 8:47*am, Mike Ash > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
>
> > *a > wrote:
> > > There was a bad frost at KBED a long time ago when I training for my
> > > private, long before first solo. My instructor and I went to the Piper
> > > 140 -- windows were coated with frost. He suggested we turn the
> > > airplane to the east so the sun would work its magic. As we were
> > > moving it, another instructor walked by, saw what we were doing, and
> > > asked "Hey, moving it closer to the sun?". We were of course doing
> > > that, but I think the difference in the inverse square of the distance
> > > to the sun mattered less than the change in cosine of the angle of
> > > incidence. But what did I know, beitng a student pilot?
>
> > > I would expect that instructor would put to shame the spammers on this
> > > site: he had an overpowering intellect AND a sense of humor. Oh, and
> > > he was a real pilot too. He would not be a "Loser On Line".
>
> > Reminds me of my first visit to the local wave camp three years ago.
> > Showed up really early in the morning, got the club two-seater (which we
> > had trailered over from our usual airport) out of the hangar, prepped it
> > for flight, and then let it sit out in the sun to clear the frost from
> > the wings.
>
> > As we're standing around talking and waiting, my instructor, who was
> > once head of the Navy Test Pilot School, turns to a younger club
> > instructor who I think had no non-glider experience and asks, "How much
> > frost on the wings starts to worry you?"
>
> > The younger instructor gave him an interesting look, and replied, "ANY
> > frost on the wings worries me...."
>
> > We waited for it all to sublime, then had a nice flight. And I learned
> > an interesting lesson on the different attitudes people can take. (And
> > I'm not saying either one was necessarily wrong, it's just interesting
> > how different the attitudes were and how clearly they were shaped by
> > their respective past experiences.)
>
> Great big smilie...
> I have a feeling that frost on the wings of a jet fighter wouldn't
> have the same result as on the wings of a sailplane or even a Club
> training machine.
> Of course I'd like to be offered the chance to fly one of those there
> fighters to see if I'm right. :-)

I have not taken off with frost on the wings, but have gotten into
icing conditions a couple of times. The airplane continued to fly well
enough, but looking at that stuff grow on the leading edges was not
fun. I would not want to have to land with any ice on the laminar flow
wings on my airplane, I have no idea when they'll stop flying! Now
having enough thrust to carry the stuff is a different story.

Mike's glider with its 40 something to 1 glide slope would not need
much horsepower to keep it aloft, but I'd bet dew around the
stagnation point on the wings would have a bad effect.

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
a > wrote:

> > > Reminds me of my first visit to the local wave camp three years ago.
> > > Showed up really early in the morning, got the club two-seater (which we
> > > had trailered over from our usual airport) out of the hangar, prepped it
> > > for flight, and then let it sit out in the sun to clear the frost from
> > > the wings.
> >
> > > As we're standing around talking and waiting, my instructor, who was
> > > once head of the Navy Test Pilot School, turns to a younger club
> > > instructor who I think had no non-glider experience and asks, "How much
> > > frost on the wings starts to worry you?"
> >
> > > The younger instructor gave him an interesting look, and replied, "ANY
> > > frost on the wings worries me...."
> >
> > > We waited for it all to sublime, then had a nice flight. And I learned
> > > an interesting lesson on the different attitudes people can take. (And
> > > I'm not saying either one was necessarily wrong, it's just interesting
> > > how different the attitudes were and how clearly they were shaped by
> > > their respective past experiences.)
> >
> > Great big smilie...
> > I have a feeling that frost on the wings of a jet fighter wouldn't
> > have the same result as on the wings of a sailplane or even a Club
> > training machine.
> > Of course I'd like to be offered the chance to fly one of those there
> > fighters to see if I'm right. :-)
>
> I have not taken off with frost on the wings, but have gotten into
> icing conditions a couple of times. The airplane continued to fly well
> enough, but looking at that stuff grow on the leading edges was not
> fun. I would not want to have to land with any ice on the laminar flow
> wings on my airplane, I have no idea when they'll stop flying! Now
> having enough thrust to carry the stuff is a different story.

Certainly the thrust-to-weight ratio is a bit higher on the fighter.

I've never flown with frost on the wings (have flown through snow a
couple of times though, always entertaining) but I have flown through
rain and gotten the wings wet. Noticeably detracts from performance (and
it's amazing how much water stays on there), but add airspeed to
compensate and it's ok.

I had this happen on my checkride, actually. Didn't notice too much on
the wings, but we were flying around and suddenly I realized that we
were doing 50+kts and I had the stick at the back stop. (Normally it
should slow to under 40!) After some head scratching and worry, I
realized that the horizontal stabilizer was also wet, and the water was
destroying its performance. I shoved the trim all the way forward to put
the trim tab up and give me more authority, and all was well.

I imagine that light frost would be less destructive to performance than
rain, and so I wouldn't worry about it too much. On the other hand,
what's the harm in waiting for it to go away?

I should mention that the former test pilot has an enormous amount of
glider experience as well (he does about 1/3rd of all instruction in my
glider club, even though we have over a dozen instructors), and he
certainly knows what he's doing there, it's just that his overall
attitude to flying is a bit less nitpicky and a bit more cavalier than
the average instructor's.

> Mike's glider with its 40 something to 1 glide slope would not need
> much horsepower to keep it aloft, but I'd bet dew around the
> stagnation point on the wings would have a bad effect.

I've only experienced wet wings in one glider (one of the club
two-seaters) but I've read some things about it, and the most striking
thing is how differently different airfoils will respond to being wet.
Apparently my type deals fairly well with it, but other gliders with
similar performance in normal flying can experience a drastic reduction
in performance after passing through rain. Aerodynamics is mysterious to
me....

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Brian Whatcott]

Mike Ash wrote:
/snip/
> I've only experienced wet wings in one glider (one of the club
> two-seaters) but I've read some things about it, and the most striking
> thing is how differently different airfoils will respond to being wet. /snip/

I used to keep a C150 on a tie down.
On an annual, the A&P warned me it's important to check that the surface
and fuselage drains are clear. As soon as you think about it, you
realize the effect of just a quart or two of water sloshing aft on a
climb out.

Another time, after a snowfall in Dallas (!!) the tail drooped down to
the ground....

Poor abused airplane!

Brian W

[Grand Mal]

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
>I got off a little later than expected due to
> an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
> that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
> flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
> the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
> time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
> sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
> as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
> absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
> free, there was no better way to spend the
> morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
> remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
> and it took on importance, so I brought her
> down, though it seemed like she landed
> herself.
>
> I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
> celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
> we have...that didn't come for free.
>
> Living in America,
> ---
> Mark

"celebrate Pearl Harbour Day"?
Good Lord, how do you do that? With a blindfold, a Louisville Slugger and a
Zero-shaped pinata? Can you recycle any of the decorations left over from
celebrating '9/11'?

[Mark]

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:32:19 GMT, Grand Mal wrote:

> "Mark" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I got off a little later than expected due to
>> an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
>> that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
>> flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
>> the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
>> time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
>> sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
>> as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
>> absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
>> free, there was no better way to spend the
>> morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
>> remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
>> and it took on importance, so I brought her
>> down, though it seemed like she landed
>> herself.
>>
>> I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
>> celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
>> we have...that didn't come for free.
>>
>> Living in America,
>> ---
>> Mark
>
> "celebrate Pearl Harbour Day"?
> Good Lord, how do you do that? With a blindfold, a Louisville Slugger and a
> Zero-shaped pinata? Can you recycle any of the decorations left over from
> celebrating '9/11'?

I shoot BBs at my Nip maids.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.

[Grand Mal]

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:32:19 GMT, Grand Mal wrote:
>
>> "Mark" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I got off a little later than expected due to
>>> an unexpected frost, but the sun soon melted
>>> that away and I was off. To me you can't beat
>>> flying in the winter cause the cabin is comfortable,
>>> the pressure is up, and the sky colors of this
>>> time of year are incomparable. It was a scarlet
>>> sunrise and I soon settled into a layer smooth
>>> as glass. The light glittering off the lake was
>>> absolutely beautiful. Trimmed out to hands-
>>> free, there was no better way to spend the
>>> morning. Finally after a couple of hours, I
>>> remembered a place with buttermilk bisquits
>>> and it took on importance, so I brought her
>>> down, though it seemed like she landed
>>> herself.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking maybe tommorrow we should all
>>> celebrate Pearl Harbor Day and enjoy the freedom
>>> we have...that didn't come for free.
>>>
>>> Living in America,
>>> ---
>>> Mark
>>
>> "celebrate Pearl Harbour Day"?
>> Good Lord, how do you do that? With a blindfold, a Louisville Slugger and
>> a
>> Zero-shaped pinata? Can you recycle any of the decorations left over from
>> celebrating '9/11'?
>
> I shoot BBs at my Nip maids.

And if the BB's are as substantial as the maids you don't even need to turn
the lights on when you do it.


> --
> Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
> scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
> And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.