Salto Tooling.

[[email protected]]

After Mrs Hanle's death earlier this year I was wondering who ended up
with the production moulds and tooling for the Salto?

Any one know where it is these days?

Cheers

Al

[stephanevdv]

The 5 last Saltos were built by Frank & Waldenberger.

Luftfahrttechnischer Betrieb LBA NR.II A 264
Dieter Frank und Gustav Waldenberger GmbH
In der Kühweid 1a
76661 Philippsburg - Huttenheim
Tel.: 07256/4807
Fax.: 07256/4809
Hotline: 0171/5158282 oder 0170/2435310
email:info[at]frankundwaldenberger.de

They probably still possess the toolings and production rights.
However, Saltos are no longer in production with them. They were too
expensive to produce and the five built by F&W had to be sold at a
loss.

[Bob Kuykendall]

Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
to make them out of carbon...

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 8:16*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> to make them out of carbon...

reading my mind there Bob.

[Andreas Maurer]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:07 -0800 (PST), Bob Kuykendall
> wrote:

>Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
>to make them out of carbon...

If you are really interested in the tooling, I cold probably get them
for you.

But a warning in advance:
A Salto needs a lot of work to build... I was working there when
Frank&Waldenberger started the 2nd series...


Cheers
Andreas


Bye
Andreas

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 10:23*am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:07 -0800 (PST), Bob Kuykendall
>
> > wrote:
> >Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> >to make them out of carbon...
>
> If you are really interested in the tooling, I cold probably get them
> for you.
>
> But a warning in advance:
> A Salto needs a lot of work to build... I was working there when
> Frank&Waldenberger started the 2nd series...
>
> Cheers
> Andreas
>
> Bye
> Andreas

Andrea email me direct lets talk.

Cheers

Al

[Guy[_7_]]

So Al.....
You are going to make Saltos in your basement just like Mrs. Hanle?
Going to hire unemployed aeronautical engineers to do the layups in
your basement?
Use the hot tub for a curing oven?
Certify your all carbon Saltos for +/- 10G?
All for $30,000?
Control system and canopy are extra?

Sign me up.
Guy

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 10:23*am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:07 -0800 (PST), Bob Kuykendall
>
> > wrote:
> >Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> >to make them out of carbon...
>
> If you are really interested in the tooling, I cold probably get them
> for you.
>
> But a warning in advance:
> A Salto needs a lot of work to build... I was working there when
> Frank&Waldenberger started the 2nd series...
>
> Cheers
> Andreas
>
> Bye
> Andreas

Andreas,
How many people were needed to build Salto in what time span?
Was the cost of materials about $10-15 thousand or more?

Andre

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 3:36*pm, " >
wrote:
> On Dec 17, 10:23*am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:07 -0800 (PST), Bob Kuykendall
>
> > > wrote:
> > >Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> > >to make them out of carbon...
>
> > If you are really interested in the tooling, I cold probably get them
> > for you.
>
> > But a warning in advance:
> > A Salto needs a lot of work to build... I was working there when
> > Frank&Waldenberger started the 2nd series...
>
> > Cheers
> > Andreas
>
> > Bye
> > Andreas
>
> Andrea email me direct lets talk.
>
> Cheers
>
> Al- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Al,
This would be nice project.
Where are you located?

Andre

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 10:38*pm, wrote:
> On Dec 17, 3:36*pm, " >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 10:23*am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:16:07 -0800 (PST), Bob Kuykendall
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> > > >to make them out of carbon...
>
> > > If you are really interested in the tooling, I cold probably get them
> > > for you.
>
> > > But a warning in advance:
> > > A Salto needs a lot of work to build... I was working there when
> > > Frank&Waldenberger started the 2nd series...
>
> > > Cheers
> > > Andreas
>
> > > Bye
> > > Andreas
>
> > Andrea email me direct lets talk.
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Al- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Al,
> This would be nice project.
> Where are you located?
>
> Andre

Nevada USA.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 17, 8:24*pm, Guy > wrote:
> So Al.....
> You are going to make Saltos in your basement just like Mrs. Hanle?
> Going to hire unemployed aeronautical engineers to do the layups in
> your basement?
> Use the hot tub for a curing oven?
> Certify your all carbon Saltos for +/- 10G?
> All for $30,000?
> Control system and canopy are extra?
>
> Sign me up.
> Guy

Well imagine the following scenario....

We create a Co-Op for the production of the plane.
In order to buy one you become a member of the Co-Op.
The Co-Op only charges for costs not profit.
If you can contribute work to the Co-Op then you get a discount
against the labour rate etc.etc.
The Co-Op will hire X number of people to do the production on a full
time basis.

So in order to get started we would need to raise some capital to buy
the tooling, setup a production area and sell initial seed units to
first set of Co-Op members.

Also thinking give the wing section a refresh to something more modern
and start to add carbon into the build as well.

We could call it the Volksglider ;)

Just a crazy pipe dream right now but as the worlds supply of
reasonable priced planes dries up this could become a viable option.

How many would you like to order Guy?

Cheers

Al

[Dave Nadler]

On Dec 17, 11:16*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
> Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> to make them out of carbon...

While you're at it Bob, go get the LS-4b tooling.
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[[email protected][_2_]]

You could name it the PW-5.1 Maybe set up a world class racing scheme
around the glider...
Seriously -- go for it.

[Andreas Maurer]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:34:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


>Andreas,
>How many people were needed to build Salto in what time span?
>Was the cost of materials about $10-15 thousand or more?

If I remember correctly, we needed about three people (part-time) to
build one Salto per month.
The main problem with the Salto was that the female molds left a lot
to be desired - especially the wings needed a lot of work to fit them
to the fuselage. Therefore the finishing needed forever.

The cost of materials was in the $15.000 range.

[Wayne Paul]

Al,

So, you are looking at a similar approach the "Chicago five" use in their HP-11 assembly line.
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-11/Five_to_Match/Five_HP-11s.htm
Notice item 7 in the "Joint Venture Agreement."
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-11/Five_to_Match/HP11A_Project.htm

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F


> wrote in message ...
On Dec 17, 8:24 pm, Guy > wrote:

Well imagine the following scenario....

We create a Co-Op for the production of the plane.
In order to buy one you become a member of the Co-Op.
The Co-Op only charges for costs not profit.
If you can contribute work to the Co-Op then you get a discount
against the labour rate etc.etc.
The Co-Op will hire X number of people to do the production on a full
time basis.

So in order to get started we would need to raise some capital to buy
the tooling, setup a production area and sell initial seed units to
first set of Co-Op members.

Also thinking give the wing section a refresh to something more modern
and start to add carbon into the build as well.

We could call it the Volksglider ;)

Just a crazy pipe dream right now but as the worlds supply of
reasonable priced planes dries up this could become a viable option.

How many would you like to order Guy?

Cheers

Al

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Dec 18, 4:38*am, Dave Nadler > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 11:16*am, Bob Kuykendall > wrote:
>
> > Al, if you can get the tooling I'd be glad to help you figure out how
> > to make them out of carbon...
>
> While you're at it Bob, go get the LS-4b tooling.
> See ya, Dave "YO electric"

I pretty much have its equivalent at this point. If I painted "LS4" on
the side of an unflapped HP-24 ship you couldn't tell it wasn't so
until you got pretty close.

Thanks, Bob K.

[JJ Sinclair]

I have nothing against pipe-dreams, but lets make it a good pipe-dream
with LS-4 performance. We wouldn't call it an LS-4 of course,
following the Centrair example out company would be something like
Trendtrair and we would be producing a MS-4. Don't really need carbon,
glass is much easier for unskilled hands to work with. But we need a
selling point, how about one of those Front Electric Sustainers and a
Ballistic Chute.with automatic hook-ups of course.
Pipe-dream over, I feel much better now.
JJ

Ops, forgot one thing. We need a test pilot to fly our MS-4 built in a
basement by the unskilled supervised by the
untrained..............................Al?

[Brad[_2_]]

On Dec 18, 1:05*am, " >
wrote:
> On Dec 17, 8:24*pm, Guy > wrote:
>
> > So Al.....
> > You are going to make Saltos in your basement just like Mrs. Hanle?
> > Going to hire unemployed aeronautical engineers to do the layups in
> > your basement?
> > Use the hot tub for a curing oven?
> > Certify your all carbon Saltos for +/- 10G?
> > All for $30,000?
> > Control system and canopy are extra?
>
> > Sign me up.
> > Guy
>
> Well imagine the following scenario....
>
> We create a Co-Op for the production of the plane.
> In order to buy one you become a member of the Co-Op.
> The Co-Op only charges for costs not profit.
> If you can contribute work to the Co-Op then you get a discount
> against the labour rate etc.etc.
> The Co-Op will hire X number of people to do the production on a full
> time basis.
>
> So in order to get started we would need to raise some capital to buy
> the tooling, setup a production area and sell initial seed units to
> first set of Co-Op members.
>
> Also thinking give the wing section a refresh to something more modern
> and start to add carbon into the build as well.
>
> We could call it the Volksglider ;)
>
> Just a crazy pipe dream right now but as the worlds supply of
> reasonable priced planes dries up this could become a viable option.
>
> How many would you like to order Guy?
>
> Cheers
>
> Al

Gentlemen, place your bets..............what will fly first, Al's
carbon Salto or my HP-24?

What were the performance specs of the Salto? I thought a sub 15m
under 40:1 ship was not what pilots wanted.

Brad

[T8]

On Dec 18, 10:12*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> I have nothing against pipe-dreams, but lets make it a good pipe-dream
> with LS-4 performance. We wouldn't call it an LS-4 of course,
> following the Centrair example out company would be something like
> Trendtrair and we would be producing a MS-4. Don't really need carbon,
> glass is much easier for unskilled hands to work with. But we need a
> selling point, how about one of those Front Electric Sustainers and a
> Ballistic Chute.with automatic hook-ups of course.
> Pipe-dream over, I feel much better now.
> JJ
>
> Ops, forgot one thing. We need a test pilot to fly our MS-4 built in a
> basement by the unskilled supervised by the
> untrained..............................Al?

Instead of an MS-4, how about a "Rent-Us"?

Oh, wait....

-T8

[[email protected]]

On Dec 18, 7:17*am, Brad > wrote:
> On Dec 18, 1:05*am, " >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 8:24*pm, Guy > wrote:
>
> > > So Al.....
> > > You are going to make Saltos in your basement just like Mrs. Hanle?
> > > Going to hire unemployed aeronautical engineers to do the layups in
> > > your basement?
> > > Use the hot tub for a curing oven?
> > > Certify your all carbon Saltos for +/- 10G?
> > > All for $30,000?
> > > Control system and canopy are extra?
>
> > > Sign me up.
> > > Guy
>
> > Well imagine the following scenario....
>
> > We create a Co-Op for the production of the plane.
> > In order to buy one you become a member of the Co-Op.
> > The Co-Op only charges for costs not profit.
> > If you can contribute work to the Co-Op then you get a discount
> > against the labour rate etc.etc.
> > The Co-Op will hire X number of people to do the production on a full
> > time basis.
>
> > So in order to get started we would need to raise some capital to buy
> > the tooling, setup a production area and sell initial seed units to
> > first set of Co-Op members.
>
> > Also thinking give the wing section a refresh to something more modern
> > and start to add carbon into the build as well.
>
> > We could call it the Volksglider ;)
>
> > Just a crazy pipe dream right now but as the worlds supply of
> > reasonable priced planes dries up this could become a viable option.
>
> > How many would you like to order Guy?
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Al
>
> Gentlemen, place your bets..............what will fly first, Al's
> carbon Salto or my HP-24?
>
> What were the performance specs of the Salto? I thought a sub 15m
> under 40:1 ship was not what pilots wanted.
>
> Brad

Well the Salto plugs up to 15.5M plus with an up to date airfoil would
easily break the 40:1 barrier.
Plus you can take the tips off it and pull G's till you puke :)

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Dec 18, 10:46*am, " >
wrote:

> ...plus with an up to date airfoil...

That means new wing tooling. I've done that. It is not for the faint
of heart.

Thanks, Bob K.