Re: Reserve Haters (Was...Re: Privatizing Red Air Gaining Momentum)

[FastMover114]

VFA-201 deployed on TR with CVW-8 during OIF...If there's any animosity
towards SELRES/TARS in VFA-201 it must be because they "showed" up everyone
else in the Wing. What a shame, look at the Air Force, they do it, and they
have the Reserve and Guard.
"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 8/4/03 10:34 AM, in article
> , "s.p.i."
> > wrote:
>
> > "Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" > wrote in
message
> > >...
>
> >> In the current "reserve hater" climate, their business plan/mindset:
"If you
> >> build it, they will come" is correct. The active duty Navy would love
> >> nothing more than to cash in their Category IV USNR hardware units (and
> >> their impending need for re-equipping) for Hoss' Category III bunch.
Once
> >> they've cornered the market, they'll be able to charge/negotiate
whatever
> >> they need to recapitalize/maintain.
> >
> > You just got back from a combat deployment, is there truly a "reserve
> > hater" climate out there?
>
> In a word: "Yes." Not going to go into the details.
>
> > Oh is there a realization that this New
> > Semi-Cold War requires a radically different force structure-active
> > and reserve?
>
> I agree with you. A radically different force structure is required...
But
> that's for another post.
>
> > As to your second point, we are back to your rather fallacious
> > -flatuous really-make a buck at any cost theory again.
> >
>
> It's valid. Happens all the time. Admittedly, I'm cynical because I've
> seen how folks at the top of some big businesses (i.e. major airlines)
> attempt to cut corners to line their own pockets--and STILL manage to
bleed
> the company coffers.
>
> > Re the first point, here is a good article:
> > http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROcvrk08.htm
> >
>
> Well-written article with some fairly naïve solutions--not the least of
> which is having the active duty guys run the reserves.
>
> The last thing a reservist wants is an active duty guy writing his FITREP.
> Those guys mismanage their own enough.
>
> > I'm hoping you will reward me again with your comments about it Oh
> > Great Sky God Woody.
> >
>
> My pleasure to respond to such a well-read intellectual. Perhaps Ed's
> right. The snideness is sort of... well... snide.
>
> --Woody
>

[Mike Kanze]

>Geez, youse Naby guys is too dang polite. I just wish I could get you to
stop communicating in service specific acronyms. You all speak a different
language.

Ed,

For friendly help, go to http://www.tailhook.org/AVSLANG.htm. (You may be
surprised at how much of this is actually understandable to a Blue Suiter
like yourself.)

Unfortunately, there is too much here to be "kneeboard-friendly". Would
probably require an exchange tour to digest / memorize.

Owl sends.

--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"Politics is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage."

- H. L. Mencken


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> [rest snipped]

[Pechs1]

navyao-<< VFA-201 deployed on TR with CVW-8 during OIF...If there's any
animosity
towards SELRES/TARS in VFA-201 it must be because they "showed" up everyone
else in the Wing. >><BR><BR>

Lessee...average flight time of the VFA-201 dudes??

Compared to the standard fleet squadron...nuggets, etc???..not surprised these
'old farts' showed up everybody else..I would have been surprised if they
didn't.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

George-<< My best friend is a retired USAF major and one of the lucky ones, he
was
selected for transport training instead of F-4's. He says being a truck
driver over Nam was much safer. >><BR><BR>


Pay yer money, take yer chances. I think a combat tour for a fleet aviator
would not be a bad thing...

But iffa the guy wanted to play it safe, maybe he should have only flown
civilian...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[George Shirley]

Pechs1 wrote:

> George-<< My best friend is a retired USAF major and one of the lucky ones, he
> was
> selected for transport training instead of F-4's. He says being a truck
> driver over Nam was much safer. >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Pay yer money, take yer chances. I think a combat tour for a fleet aviator
> would not be a bad thing...
>
> But iffa the guy wanted to play it safe, maybe he should have only flown
> civilian...
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

He started his career as a meterologist on the Apollo shots but his boss
told him if wanted a career in the USAF he had better volunteer for
pilot training. He was slated for F-4 familiarization after completing
his training and was pulled for transport instead. Wasn't really his
choice but after he saw so many classmates go down he felt grateful for it.

He never had the desire to fly but did it and was rated a command pilot
with lots of hours when he retired in 1982 but never did go into
civilian aviation. I guess it's whatever makes you happy in the long run.

George

[Ed Rasimus]

(Pechs1) wrote:


>But iffa the guy wanted to play it safe, maybe he should have only flown
>civilian...
>P. C. Chisholm

Shack, Lead!


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

[Red]

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...

SNIP-SNIP-SNIP

> Kind of funny for the rest of the CVW JO's though... watching O-4's living
> in six-man staterooms, and O-4's and O-5's standing shore patrol (now they
> put an officer on every team) and standing Boat O'.
>
> --Woody

O-4's and O-5's on shore patrol and as Boat O. Dang that must be something
With the O-4 and O-5 occupied doing constructive things, it must have been
dead in the bars.

I guess Ensigns are rare in the fleet squadrons today (without
NAVCAD/MARCAD). What is a nugget today? A mid grade O-3?

R

[Pechs1]

George-<< He started his career as a meterologist on the Apollo shots but his
boss
told him if wanted a career in the USAF he had better volunteer for
pilot training. He was slated for F-4 familiarization after completing
his training and was pulled for transport instead. Wasn't really his
choice but after he saw so many classmates go down he felt grateful for it.
>><BR><BR>

I guess...But I viewed being a fleet tactical guy as a real reward for my
flying abilities..And this was during the end of VietNam...There were so many
guys I knew that 'didn't make the cut' and ended up flying trash haulers
instead...

There were USN guys that pulled strings to be in right coast squadrons to
ensure they wouldn't be put into harm's way...as if they were in the USN for
someother reason, I guess...

I don get it..Being in the military you have only two jobs...to kill people and
break things...all else is rubbish...

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[George Shirley]

Pechs1 wrote:

> George-<< He started his career as a meterologist on the Apollo shots but his
> boss
> told him if wanted a career in the USAF he had better volunteer for
> pilot training. He was slated for F-4 familiarization after completing
> his training and was pulled for transport instead. Wasn't really his
> choice but after he saw so many classmates go down he felt grateful for it.
>
>>><BR><BR>
>
>
> I guess...But I viewed being a fleet tactical guy as a real reward for my
> flying abilities..And this was during the end of VietNam...There were so many
> guys I knew that 'didn't make the cut' and ended up flying trash haulers
> instead...
>
> There were USN guys that pulled strings to be in right coast squadrons to
> ensure they wouldn't be put into harm's way...as if they were in the USN for
> someother reason, I guess...
>
> I don get it..Being in the military you have only two jobs...to kill people and
> break things...all else is rubbish...
>
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

I think the Air Force guys view it more as a job than we sailors do or
did. I went in the Navy at 17 to see the world and fight if I had to,
this was 1957 and all we were fighting was the Evil Empire and there
wasn't a lot of shooting going on. My first fleet assignment was at VR-1
and I loved flying crew. Other guys would bitch about having to go on a
long flight and I volunteered for them. Why did they go in the Navy if
they didn't want to visit strange places, meet strange people, and
maybe, just maybe, get a chance to kill them? <BSEG>

They all just wanted to finish their tour and get the hell out, I
intended to make a career of it. Unfortunately the lady I fell in love
with and ultimately married was raised next door to Patuxent River NAS
and didn't want to be a sailor's wife. After 43 years together I have to
figure she was right about it.

My friend has never mentioned it but I think circumstances forced an Air
Force career, married in 1960, got out of college in 1962, got his ROTC
commission and started making babies. He seems much happier as a retired
civilian. Military life is what you make of it AFAIK.

George

[Ed Rasimus]

George Shirley > wrote:

>Pechs1 wrote:
>
>> I don get it..Being in the military you have only two jobs...to kill people and
>> break things...all else is rubbish...
>>
>I think the Air Force guys view it more as a job than we sailors do or
>did.
>

You need to get out and meet more AF guys. We like to kill people and
break things, then after work we like to relax surrounded by beautiful
women and sipping an adult beverage. But, we still really like the
primary function.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

[Leanne]

"> I don get it..Being in the military you have only two jobs...to kill people
and
> break things...all else is rubbish...

And I was one of those that had to fix those broken planes.....

Leanne

[Pechs1]

leanne-<< And I was one of those that had to fix those broken planes.....
>><BR><BR>

Good for you...we could not have done our job w/o you, whereas you could have
done your job w/o us...But at least you didn't look to do a cushy special
services job cuz it was 'safer'..like the wx guy did...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Dave in San Diego]

"Leanne" > wrote in :

>
> "> I don get it..Being in the military you have only two jobs...to
> kill people and
>> break things...all else is rubbish...
>
> And I was one of those that had to fix those broken planes.....

Yeah, and tactfully respond to gripes like "IFF does not work in STBY
position".

Dave in San Diego
AT1 USN Ret

--
-
"For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward;
For there you have been, and there you long to return."
Leonardo da Vinci

[Pechs1]

Dave-<< Yeah, and tactfully respond to gripes like "IFF does not work in STBY
position". >><BR><BR>


Or a gripe written-" right main mount almost needs changing"
Write off was 'almost changed right mainmount'...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer