Re: Helicopter gun at LONG range

[Tony Williams]

"Charles Talleyrand" > wrote in message >...
> Has anyone used a helicopter cannon at LONG standoff range. By long range I mean
> a range where the gun must shoot significantly above the straight line to the target
> rather like a howitzer.
>
> My vision is a helicopter standing off for safety and firing at an area. I'm assuming
> if an AH-64 unloaded it's magazine at me from 10 miles away I would experience
> a hail of shells all around me that would chew up every soft target including
> any anti-air batteries.
>
> It would take some sensor to measure range accurately (laser rangefinder) and some
> software to compute tragetories, but these things need not be heavy or very expensive.
>
> Has anyone ever even experimented or studied such an idea?

The ultimate range limitation given current helicopter installations
would be the maximum elevation permitted by the turret. The AH-64's
gun is limited to only 11 degrees (the French THL turret manages up to
30 degrees, the AH-1's M197 20 degrees).

The ballistic charactistics of the projectiles is also an issue. At
extreme range short aircraft cannon shells like the western 20mm and
30mm may lose stability and start tumbling. The Russian 30mm is much
better; the shells are much heavier and will carry further, but their
mountings don't have the elevation.

Then there's the stability of a helicopter as a gun platform. I
suspect that dispersion at long range would be considerable.

All-in-all, probably a non-starter for any practical purposes.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

[Charles Talleyrand]

"Tony Williams" > wrote in message m...
> The ultimate range limitation given current helicopter installations
> would be the maximum elevation permitted by the turret. The AH-64's
> gun is limited to only 11 degrees (the French THL turret manages up to
> 30 degrees, the AH-1's M197 20 degrees).

Hmm. Good point. A new helicopter might have different limits, but we'll
be using the existing fleet for a long time.

> The ballistic charactistics of the projectiles is also an issue. At
> extreme range short aircraft cannon shells like the western 20mm and
> 30mm may lose stability and start tumbling. The Russian 30mm is much
> better; the shells are much heavier and will carry further, but their
> mountings don't have the elevation.

I don't know enough to understand this. Is tumbling bad? I understood for
something like a personal rifle it was a good thing in that it maximzed damage.


>
> Then there's the stability of a helicopter as a gun platform. I
> suspect that dispersion at long range would be considerable.


Sure. But if it's good enough at 1000 meters to hit a truck, then at 10,000
meters it should hit an area with a diameter of 10 trucks. That's a small
area given enough rounds on target. Of course I'm going beyond my area of
expertise here.



> All-in-all, probably a non-starter for any practical purposes.
>
> Tony Williams
> Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
> Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/

[Thomas Schoene]

"Charles Talleyrand" > wrote in message

>
> I don't know enough to understand this. Is tumbling bad? I
> understood for something like a personal rifle it was a good
> thing in that it maximzed damage.

A round that tumbles in flight is bad. Some Small arms rounds tumble when
they enter flesh, which increases their wounding potential. But if this
happens before hitting a target, the rounds are liable to go anywhere but
where you aim them. If they do hit something, they will have very poor
penetration.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Tiger]

Charles Talleyrand wrote:

> Has anyone used a helicopter cannon at LONG standoff range. By long range I mean
> a range where the gun must shoot significantly above the straight line to the target
> rather like a howitzer.
>
> My vision is a helicopter standing off for safety and firing at an area. I'm assuming
> if an AH-64 unloaded it's magazine at me from 10 miles away I would experience
> a hail of shells all around me that would chew up every soft target including
> any anti-air batteries.
>
> It would take some sensor to measure range accurately (laser rangefinder) and some
> software to compute tragetories, but these things need not be heavy or very expensive.
>
> Has anyone ever even experimented or studied such an idea?

First the gun can't shoot 10 miles. Second, You can't tell friend of foe from that far
out. If you want to reach out an touch some one, you call on a fire mission. Not a
Apache, wasting ammo.