New SPOT messenger allows custom messages

[Rob.Russell]

It's only $550, and it lets you send custom text messages through
space to cellphones back home.

It also lets you update your facebook status while soaring. "ZOMFG, I
just got passed in a thermal by a plastic shopping bag!"

http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2010/01/05/delorme-earthmate-pn-60w-with-spot

(Updating facebook by satellite while acting as P1 isn't actually
recommended)

[Alex[_5_]]

On Jan 6, 7:19*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
> It's only $550, and it lets you send custom text messages through
> space to cellphones back home.
>
> It also lets you update your facebook status while soaring. *"ZOMFG, I
> just got passed in a thermal by a plastic shopping bag!"
>
> http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2010/01/05/delorme-earthmate-pn-6...
>
> (Updating facebook by satellite while acting as P1 isn't actually
> recommended)

You're right, Facebook is not recommended while gliding. It's very
passe. It was
OK at the beginning, but now all these old people are on it. It's much
better now to use
Twitter.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 6, 7:19*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
> It's only $550, and it lets you send custom text messages through
> space to cellphones back home.
>
> It also lets you update your facebook status while soaring. *"ZOMFG, I
> just got passed in a thermal by a plastic shopping bag!"
>
> http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2010/01/05/delorme-earthmate-pn-6...
>
> (Updating facebook by satellite while acting as P1 isn't actually
> recommended)

First prize to somebody who hacks this to send altitude. I wonder what
the restrictions on message rates are. I'd expect them to be fairly
brutal.

Darryl

[Frank[_12_]]

On Jan 6, 2:08*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Jan 6, 7:19*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
>
> > It's only $550, and it lets you send custom text messages through
> > space to cellphones back home.
>
> > It also lets you update your facebook status while soaring. *"ZOMFG, I
> > just got passed in a thermal by a plastic shopping bag!"
>
> >http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2010/01/05/delorme-earthmate-pn-6...
>
> > (Updating facebook by satellite while acting as P1 isn't actually
> > recommended)
>
> First prize to somebody who hacks this to send altitude. I wonder what
> the restrictions on message rates are. I'd expect them to be fairly
> brutal.
>
> Darryl

It appears from the advertising material that this device is a
combination of GPS engine, map display, and SPOT transmitter. If so,
the texting and 'custom messaging' feature is just what a current SPOT
unit allows, i.e. they are 'custom' in the sense that you can set them
up to send whatever text you want, but they are *not* dynamic - the
message text is set by editing your account information on the SPOT
site.

A typical SPOT unit costs less than $200 (not including the $150-200/
year subscription costs) and includes the GPS engine and the SPOT
transmitter. I'm not real convinced that adding a display increases
the value 250% ;-).

We have been nagging SPOT to include altitude, but so far no
progress. I think it will come, but I don't know when

Regards,

TA

[sisu1a]

> We have been nagging SPOT to include altitude, but so far no
> progress. *I think it will come, but I don't know when

Maybe once the Gliding community nags enough for them to move in it,
they can call they're new altitude equipped units 'G-SPOT'... which
might even make them come quicker.

-Paul

[Rob.Russell]

On Jan 7, 4:49*pm, Frank > wrote:

> It appears from the advertising material that this device is a
> combination of GPS engine, map display, and SPOT transmitter. *If so,
> the texting and 'custom messaging' feature is just what a current SPOT
> unit allows, i.e. they are 'custom' in the sense that you can set them
> up to send whatever text you want, but they are *not* dynamic - the
> message text is set by editing your account information on the SPOT
> site.

From the press release:

“For the first time, people will be able to type custom text messages
using the Earthmate PN-60w internal keyboard and then transmit
wirelessly to the unique DeLorme SPOT Communicator for sending
satellite messages around the globe,” said Caleb Mason, DeLorme Vice
President.

Also:

"Users can send freeform text messages using the PN-60w’s keyboard to
select individuals or groups from the field even from remote areas
world-wide."

So, now we're left with a couple of questions:
- Is "transmit wirelessly" legal for cockpit use in your jurisdiction?
- Is this wireless protocol documented and open enough that other
devices (say, the theoretical upcoming LX69000, or maybe even XCSoar
if the wireless protocol is 802.11 or Bluetooth) would be able to also
send the text messages?
- Can we buy this wireless-capable SPOT messenger without buying the
Delorme gizmo?

[Andy[_10_]]

On Jan 8, 7:10*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
> On Jan 7, 4:49*pm, Frank > wrote:
>
> > It appears from the advertising material that this device is a
> > combination of GPS engine, map display, and SPOT transmitter. *If so,
> > the texting and 'custom messaging' feature is just what a current SPOT
> > unit allows, i.e. they are 'custom' in the sense that you can set them
> > up to send whatever text you want, but they are *not* dynamic - the
> > message text is set by editing your account information on the SPOT
> > site.
>
> From the press release:
>
> “For the first time, people will be able to type custom text messages
> using the Earthmate PN-60w internal keyboard and then transmit
> wirelessly to the unique DeLorme SPOT Communicator for sending
> satellite messages around the globe,” said Caleb Mason, DeLorme Vice
> President.
>
> Also:
>
> "Users can send freeform text messages using the PN-60w’s keyboard to
> select individuals or groups from the field even from remote areas
> world-wide."
>
> So, now we're left with a couple of questions:
> - Is "transmit wirelessly" legal for cockpit use in your jurisdiction?
> - Is this wireless protocol documented and open enough that other
> devices (say, the theoretical upcoming LX69000, or maybe even XCSoar
> if the wireless protocol is 802.11 or Bluetooth) would be able to also
> send the text messages?
> - Can we buy this wireless-capable SPOT messenger without buying the
> Delorme gizmo?

For now, the answer to the last question appears to be "no". I wonder
whether Delorme has an exclusive deal to sell the SPOT "puck". I like
the idea of using Bluetooth, if that's what they use to communicate,
to connect the puck to a glide computer. If so, it would be a simple
software change to be able to send a stream of position AND altitude
reports to ground observers, at least for those of us who have a
Bluetooth-equipped computer - in my case a PDA. Maybe one of you
software developer types could test this out when the Delorme units
start shipping.

It won't be long before soaring becomes a virtual spectator sport for
most contests, not just the Grand Prix events - pretty neat.

9B

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 7, 1:49*pm, Frank > wrote:
> On Jan 6, 2:08*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 6, 7:19*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
>
> > > It's only $550, and it lets you send custom text messages through
> > > space to cellphones back home.
>
> > > It also lets you update your facebook status while soaring. *"ZOMFG, I
> > > just got passed in a thermal by a plastic shopping bag!"
>
> > >http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2010/01/05/delorme-earthmate-pn-6....
>
> > > (Updating facebook by satellite while acting as P1 isn't actually
> > > recommended)
>
> > First prize to somebody who hacks this to send altitude. I wonder what
> > the restrictions on message rates are. I'd expect them to be fairly
> > brutal.
>
> > Darryl
>
> It appears from the advertising material that this device is a
> combination of GPS engine, map display, and SPOT transmitter. *If so,
> the texting and 'custom messaging' feature is just what a current SPOT
> unit allows, i.e. they are 'custom' in the sense that you can set them
> up to send whatever text you want, but they are *not* dynamic - the
> message text is set by editing your account information on the SPOT
> site.
>
> A typical SPOT unit costs less than $200 (not including the $150-200/
> year subscription costs) and includes the GPS engine and the SPOT
> transmitter. I'm not real convinced that adding a display increases
> the value 250% ;-).
>
> We have been nagging SPOT to include altitude, but so far no
> progress. *I think it will come, but I don't know when
>
> Regards,
>
> TA

I do not believe that is the case, they say "free form" and apparently
mean it.

Gloabalstar carries these pager type messages all the time. There is
no reason why a SPOT branded device cannot also do that. Clearly SPOT
needs to modify some of their ground software infrastructure/web
services.

If the puck talks BT or similar to the handset then it's only a matter
of time until it is hacked.

Darryl

[Steve Koerner]

> If the puck talks BT or similar to the handset then it's only a matter
> of time until it is hacked.

Unless the link is properly encrypted.

Steve

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 8, 10:03*am, Steve Koerner > wrote:
> > If the puck talks BT or similar to the handset then it's only a matter
> > of time until it is hacked.
>
> Unless the link is properly encrypted.
>
> Steve

Why would that be a problem? :-)

I've not heard for sure that the link is Bluetooth, but that makes the
most sense. On a new current device like this I'd expect Bluetooth 2.1
SSP with automatic pairing for ease of use.

ANd I'd guess the link protocol is likely just serial over Bluetooth.
You send known text from the keyboard unit over the link to the SPOT.
That makes reverse engineering the key relatively easy. Once you have
that it is just a matter of sniffing the control protocols for getting
the device to do stuff. You can also hack the initial paring exchange
with a man it the middle attack. Once you have their protocols for
sending text messages you go implement that in software on your
favorite PDA etc. and you can have that link equally encrypted as the
original device is.

I expect Gloablstar to be very careful about limiting transmission
rates and that kind of thing is embedded pretty deep inside the "puck"
not something you can mess with over bluetooth.

Like I said I expect this to be hacked. All kinds of folks might want
to play with this.

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 8, 3:37*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Jan 8, 10:03*am, Steve Koerner > wrote:
>
> > > If the puck talks BT or similar to the handset then it's only a matter
> > > of time until it is hacked.
>
> > Unless the link is properly encrypted.
>
> > Steve
>
> Why would that be a problem? :-)
>
> I've not heard for sure that the link is Bluetooth, but that makes the
> most sense. On a new current device like this I'd expect Bluetooth 2.1
> SSP with automatic pairing for ease of use.
>
> ANd I'd guess the link protocol is likely just serial over Bluetooth.
> You send known text from the keyboard unit over the link to the SPOT.
> That makes reverse engineering the key relatively easy. Once you have
> that it is just a matter of sniffing the control protocols for getting
> the device to do stuff. You can also hack the initial paring exchange
> with a man it the middle attack. Once you have their protocols for
> sending text messages you go implement that in software on your
> favorite PDA etc. and you can have that link equally encrypted as the
> original device is.
>
> I expect Gloablstar to be very careful about limiting transmission
> rates and that kind of thing is embedded pretty deep inside the "puck"
> not something you can mess with over bluetooth.
>
> Like I said I expect this to be hacked. All kinds of folks might want
> to play with this.
>
> Darryl

Oops it looks like it is not Bluetooth but 802.14.4. See

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=207 and http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=190

Some other interesting snippets there as well.

I'm less familiar with 802.14.4 (and Zigbee) security. But again since
you can do data injection attacks key discovery should be possible.
Zigbee USB dongles or CF cards are readily available for easy
connectivity.

Darryl

[Frank[_12_]]

OK, I stand (or sit) corrected ;-)

TA

On Jan 8, 10:10*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
> On Jan 7, 4:49*pm, Frank > wrote:
>
> > It appears from the advertising material that this device is a
> > combination of GPS engine, map display, and SPOT transmitter. *If so,
> > the texting and 'custom messaging' feature is just what a current SPOT
> > unit allows, i.e. they are 'custom' in the sense that you can set them
> > up to send whatever text you want, but they are *not* dynamic - the
> > message text is set by editing your account information on the SPOT
> > site.
>
> From the press release:
>
> “For the first time, people will be able to type custom text messages
> using the Earthmate PN-60w internal keyboard and then transmit
> wirelessly to the unique DeLorme SPOT Communicator for sending
> satellite messages around the globe,” said Caleb Mason, DeLorme Vice
> President.
>
> Also:
>
> "Users can send freeform text messages using the PN-60w’s keyboard to
> select individuals or groups from the field even from remote areas
> world-wide."
>
> So, now we're left with a couple of questions:
> - Is "transmit wirelessly" legal for cockpit use in your jurisdiction?
> - Is this wireless protocol documented and open enough that other
> devices (say, the theoretical upcoming LX69000, or maybe even XCSoar
> if the wireless protocol is 802.11 or Bluetooth) would be able to also
> send the text messages?
> - Can we buy this wireless-capable SPOT messenger without buying the
> Delorme gizmo?

[Tony[_5_]]

On Jan 7, 4:50*pm, sisu1a > wrote:
> *> We have been nagging SPOT to include altitude, but so far no
>
> > progress. *I think it will come, but I don't know when
>
> Maybe once the Gliding community nags enough for them to move in it,
> they can call they're new altitude equipped units 'G-SPOT'... which
> might even make them come quicker.
>
> -Paul

Paul,

Just last week Scientists said that doesnt exist!

[Rob.Russell]

On Jan 8, 7:03*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:

> Oops it looks like it is not Bluetooth but 802.14.4. See

This is truly heartbreaking news.

Zigbee/802.14.4 licensing allows for free applications, and for paid
applications, but it doesn't permit Open Source applications.

This means that XCSoar will have a very hard time working with the
puck, and KFLog Cumulus will have an even harder time . . . and for
completely bull**** reasons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee#Licensing

Rob.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 12, 5:55*am, "Rob.Russell" > wrote:
> On Jan 8, 7:03*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > Oops it looks like it is not Bluetooth but 802.14.4. See
>
> This is truly heartbreaking news.
>
> Zigbee/802.14.4 licensing allows for free applications, and for paid
> applications, but it doesn't permit Open Source applications.
>
> This means that XCSoar will have a very hard time working with the
> puck, and KFLog Cumulus will have an even harder time . . . and for
> completely bull**** reasons:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee#Licensing
>
> Rob.

It is not clear this is a problem. You may not need to develop within
the Zigbee stack or link to anything. You may be able to do enough
using third party provided Zigbee drivers (like those that typically
come with the Zigbee capable CF Cards or USB dongles).

The EULA with this Delorme device will he interesting to read.

Darryl

[Rob.Russell]

On Jan 12, 4:25*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:

> It is not clear this is a problem. You may not need to develop within
> the Zigbee stack or link to anything. You may be able to do enough
> using third party provided Zigbee drivers (like those that typically
> come with the Zigbee capable CF Cards or USB dongles).

That's why developing with XCSoar for Windows Mobile might be
possible, but developing with XCSoar for Android or KFLog/Cumulus for
Maemo will be much more of a challenge.

> The EULA with this Delorme device will he interesting to read.

Agreed! As will the service contract.