Britain Between the Wars, pt 4 - 004 Index.jpg (1/1)

[Mitchell Holman[_4_]]

[HEMI-Powered[_4_]]

Mitchell Holman added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...


> Attachment decoded: 004 Index.jpg
> `
Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my memory,
what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the Brits used to
sink the Bismarck? Don't think I've seen it in any or yours but I may
have missed it.

Thanks and have a nice Friday.

--
Jerry, aka HP

"Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less: A Handbook for Slashing Gas Prices
and Solving Our Energy Crisis" - Newt Gingrich

[Indrek Aavisto]

HP> Mitchell Holman added these comments in the current discussion du
HP> jour ...


>> Attachment decoded: 004 Index.jpg
>> `
HP> Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my memory,
HP> what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the Brits used to
HP> sink the Bismarck? Don't think I've seen it in any or yours but I
HP> may
HP> have missed it.

HP> Thanks and have a nice Friday.

Fairey Swordfish, AKA "Stringbag" torpedoed the Bismark, causing damage to
the rudder. Consequently the ship was unable to escape from the British
fleet. There is some controversy about whether the crew scuttled the ship,
or whether it was sunk under the weight of shells and torpedoes launched by
the fleet.

Cheers,

Indrek Aavisto


--
Criticism is easy; achievement is difficult. W.S. Churchill

[hielan' laddie]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:13:46 -0500, HEMI-Powered wrote
(in article >):

> Mitchell Holman added these comments in the current discussion du
> jour ...
>
>
>> Attachment decoded: 004 Index.jpg
>> `
> Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my memory,
> what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the Brits used to

The Fairey Swordfish. 24 Swordfish launched from ARK ROYAL and VICTORIOUS.
The got three hits, two of which were minor, but the third jammed the rudder
and allowed the Home Fleet (dreadnoughts KING GEORGE V and RODNEY plus
several British cruisers and British and Polish destroyers) to catch and
engage.

Notable events:

Despite what is shown in the movie _Sink the Bismarck!_ no Swordfish were
shot down; several were damaged, one beyond economic repair, and one was lost
on the way back to the carriers, but none fell to AAA, despite the fact that
they were going up against the best anti-aircraft guns afloat at the time.
Persistent rumour has it that the AAA fire-control tables (think very large,
mechanical, computers) on BISMARCK could not properly aim the 105-mm twin gun
turrets at aircraft flying slower than 150 knots. As the maximum speed of a
Swordfish was 120 knots... Certainly those same 105-mm guns, fired both from
shipboard and from land positions, were extremely effective against both day
and night bombers which moved at speeds greater than 150 knots... The
Swordfish which were damaged took damage from light, hand-aimed, automatic
cannon, 20-mm and 37-mm, not the 105s.

All of BISMARCK's main battery turrets (and the 150-mm secondary turrets, and
the 105-mm AAA) were knocked out comparatively early in the fight, apparently
by KING GEORGE V's 14" guns as RODNEY's shells tended to detonate early, but
the ship proved remarkably hard to sink. The cruiser DORSETSHIRE and five
TRIBAL destroyers, plus a Polish destroyer, went in to torpedo the BISMARCK
at roughly the same time as when the order was given to scuttle the ship.
German sources therefor tend to report that the ship was scuttled, not sunk;
British sources say that it was torpedoed and sunk, not scuttled. It is
absolutely certain that BISMARCK would not have survived torpedo hits from
that many ships and that it would have been difficult to miss, given the
facts that BISMARCK's guns were out of action and the ship was dead in the
water and heavily afire.

As a direct result of BISMARCK running loose in the North Atlantic, and the
threat of TIRPITZ doing the same, Combined Operations launched Operation
Chariot, the Commando raid at St Nazaire, which destroyed the 'NORMANDIE'
dock, the only drydock outside of Germany available to the Germans and big
enough to handle TIRPITZ. Operation Chariot is the single greatest raid that
the Royal Navy has ever made, and the RN has done a lot of raids. Probably
the only raid which could be compared to Chariot would be Thunderbolt, the
Israeli raid at Entebbe.

> sink the Bismarck? Don't think I've seen it in any or yours but I may
> have missed it.
>
> Thanks and have a nice Friday.
>
>

[Mitchell Holman[_4_]]

hielan' laddie > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:13:46 -0500, HEMI-Powered wrote
> (in article >):
>
>> Mitchell Holman added these comments in the current discussion du
>> jour ...
>>
>>
>>> Attachment decoded: 004 Index.jpg
>>> `
>> Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my memory,
>> what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the Brits used to
>
> The Fairey Swordfish. 24 Swordfish launched from ARK ROYAL and
> VICTORIOUS. The got three hits, two of which were minor, but the third
> jammed the rudder and allowed the Home Fleet (dreadnoughts KING GEORGE
> V and RODNEY plus several British cruisers and British and Polish
> destroyers) to catch and engage.
>
> Notable events:
>
> Despite what is shown in the movie _Sink the Bismarck!_ no Swordfish
> were shot down; several were damaged, one beyond economic repair, and
> one was lost on the way back to the carriers, but none fell to AAA,
> despite the fact that they were going up against the best
> anti-aircraft guns afloat at the time. Persistent rumour has it that
> the AAA fire-control tables (think very large, mechanical, computers)
> on BISMARCK could not properly aim the 105-mm twin gun turrets at
> aircraft flying slower than 150 knots. As the maximum speed of a
> Swordfish was 120 knots... Certainly those same 105-mm guns, fired
> both from shipboard and from land positions, were extremely effective
> against both day and night bombers which moved at speeds greater than
> 150 knots... The Swordfish which were damaged took damage from light,
> hand-aimed, automatic cannon, 20-mm and 37-mm, not the 105s.
>
> All of BISMARCK's main battery turrets (and the 150-mm secondary
> turrets, and the 105-mm AAA) were knocked out comparatively early in
> the fight, apparently by KING GEORGE V's 14" guns as RODNEY's shells
> tended to detonate early, but the ship proved remarkably hard to sink.
> The cruiser DORSETSHIRE and five TRIBAL destroyers, plus a Polish
> destroyer, went in to torpedo the BISMARCK at roughly the same time as
> when the order was given to scuttle the ship. German sources therefor
> tend to report that the ship was scuttled, not sunk; British sources
> say that it was torpedoed and sunk, not scuttled. It is absolutely
> certain that BISMARCK would not have survived torpedo hits from that
> many ships and that it would have been difficult to miss, given the
> facts that BISMARCK's guns were out of action and the ship was dead in
> the water and heavily afire.
>
> As a direct result of BISMARCK running loose in the North Atlantic,
> and the threat of TIRPITZ doing the same, Combined Operations launched
> Operation Chariot, the Commando raid at St Nazaire, which destroyed
> the 'NORMANDIE' dock, the only drydock outside of Germany available to
> the Germans and big enough to handle TIRPITZ.


And they did it with an American ship.........

[[email protected]]

I have always felt this was one of Mitch's best posting sets. Nice seeing
it again.

Brian

[HEMI-Powered[_4_]]

Indrek Aavisto added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

> HP> Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my
> memory, HP> what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the
> Brits used to HP> sink the Bismarck? Don't think I've seen it in
> any or yours but I HP> may
> HP> have missed it.
>
> HP> Thanks and have a nice Friday.
>
> Fairey Swordfish, AKA "Stringbag" torpedoed the Bismark, causing
> damage to the rudder. Consequently the ship was unable to escape
> from the British fleet. There is some controversy about whether
> the crew scuttled the ship, or whether it was sunk under the
> weight of shells and torpedoes launched by the fleet.
>
Thanks. Swordfish was the name I was trying to remember. I've
alwaysliked the 1960 movie "Sink the Bismarck" although I don't
know how well it tracks the true events.

--
Jerry, aka HP

"Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less: A Handbook for Slashing Gas
Prices and Solving Our Energy Crisis" - Newt Gingrich

[HEMI-Powered[_4_]]

hielan' laddie added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

Thanks for the interesting ccommentary.

>> Nice series you've been posting, Mitchell. Please refresh my
>> memory, what was the name of the bi-wing torpedo bomber the
>> Brits used to
>
> The Fairey Swordfish. 24 Swordfish launched from ARK ROYAL and
> VICTORIOUS. The got three hits, two of which were minor, but the
> third jammed the rudder and allowed the Home Fleet (dreadnoughts
> KING GEORGE V and RODNEY plus several British cruisers and
> British and Polish destroyers) to catch and engage.
>
> Notable events:
>
> Despite what is shown in the movie _Sink the Bismarck!_ no
> Swordfish were shot down; several were damaged, one beyond
> economic repair, and one was lost on the way back to the
> carriers, but none fell to AAA, despite the fact that they were
> going up against the best anti-aircraft guns afloat at the time.
> Persistent rumour has it that the AAA fire-control tables (think
> very large, mechanical, computers) on BISMARCK could not
> properly aim the 105-mm twin gun turrets at aircraft flying
> slower than 150 knots. As the maximum speed of a Swordfish was
> 120 knots... Certainly those same 105-mm guns, fired both from
> shipboard and from land positions, were extremely effective
> against both day and night bombers which moved at speeds greater
> than 150 knots... The Swordfish which were damaged took damage
> from light, hand-aimed, automatic cannon, 20-mm and 37-mm, not
> the 105s.
>
> All of BISMARCK's main battery turrets (and the 150-mm secondary
> turrets, and the 105-mm AAA) were knocked out comparatively
> early in the fight, apparently by KING GEORGE V's 14" guns as
> RODNEY's shells tended to detonate early, but the ship proved
> remarkably hard to sink. The cruiser DORSETSHIRE and five TRIBAL
> destroyers, plus a Polish destroyer, went in to torpedo the
> BISMARCK at roughly the same time as when the order was given to
> scuttle the ship. German sources therefor tend to report that
> the ship was scuttled, not sunk; British sources say that it was
> torpedoed and sunk, not scuttled. It is absolutely certain that
> BISMARCK would not have survived torpedo hits from that many
> ships and that it would have been difficult to miss, given the
> facts that BISMARCK's guns were out of action and the ship was
> dead in the water and heavily afire.
>
> As a direct result of BISMARCK running loose in the North
> Atlantic, and the threat of TIRPITZ doing the same, Combined
> Operations launched Operation Chariot, the Commando raid at St
> Nazaire, which destroyed the 'NORMANDIE' dock, the only drydock
> outside of Germany available to the Germans and big enough to
> handle TIRPITZ. Operation Chariot is the single greatest raid
> that the Royal Navy has ever made, and the RN has done a lot of
> raids. Probably the only raid which could be compared to Chariot
> would be Thunderbolt, the Israeli raid at Entebbe.
>
>> sink the Bismarck? Don't think I've seen it in any or yours but
>> I may have missed it.
>>
>> Thanks and have a nice Friday.
>>
>>
>
>
>



--
Jerry, aka HP

"Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less: A Handbook for Slashing Gas
Prices and Solving Our Energy Crisis" - Newt Gingrich