I-Pad

[Mario[_2_]]

http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=newsalert

Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
would make an app for this.

[Sandy Stevenson]

On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
> http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> would make an app for this.

At 9.71 inches, this device seems a bit large for a glider cockpit.
I'm not even sure if it would work as a full MFD, replacing all the
instruments, assuming it could be certified in that role.
OTOH, the screen display technology, if applied to a somewhat smaller
display in the 4 x 6 inch format range, looks great
for bright sun viewing.
Sandy S.

[Andy[_10_]]

On Jan 27, 11:10*am, Mario > wrote:
> http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> would make an app for this.

Beat me to the punch.

10 hrs of battery life they say. Plus a nice 9", seemingly bright
screen, USB, bluetooth for GPS connectivity (don't think it has one on
board), SD slot (I think) lightweight. $499 entry price. You could
just strap it to your leg instead of taking up panel space.

Get to work porting soaring software guys! First one there gets my
money.

9B

[Gliderphud]

On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
> http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> would make an app for this.

I would guess we will see a 6.5" to 7" model in the future, between an
iPhone and current iPad. Great new technology coming in the next few
years.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Jan 28, 8:34*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:10*am, Mario > wrote:
>
> >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > would make an app for this.
>
> Beat me to the punch.
>
> 10 hrs of battery life they say. Plus a nice 9", seemingly bright
> screen, USB, bluetooth for GPS connectivity (don't think it has one on
> board), SD slot (I think) lightweight. $499 entry price. You could
> just strap it to your leg instead of taking up panel space.
>
> Get to work porting soaring software guys! *First one there gets my
> money.

How much would you pay?

[Andy[_10_]]

On Jan 27, 2:10*pm, Bruce Hoult > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 8:34*am, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 27, 11:10*am, Mario > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=...
>
> > > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > > would make an app for this.
>
> > Beat me to the punch.
>
> > 10 hrs of battery life they say. Plus a nice 9", seemingly bright
> > screen, USB, bluetooth for GPS connectivity (don't think it has one on
> > board), SD slot (I think) lightweight. $499 entry price. You could
> > just strap it to your leg instead of taking up panel space.
>
> > Get to work porting soaring software guys! *First one there gets my
> > money.
>
> How much would you pay?

$499 is the entry-level price. SeeYou Mobile is, what, $250 per copy?
Add another hundred or two for a bluetooth GPS and it looks pretty
good compared to a ClearNav or Ultimate - but we'll see.

9B

[Tom Gardner]

On Jan 27, 7:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
> http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> would make an app for this.

It would have to get past Apple's GUI enforcement police
first. They are *very* particular that *all* apps should follow
the Apple UI guidelines, without exception. So if those apps
are already available as Apple GUI compliant apps, then
fine - if not then they will have to change their GUI.

Potentially Google Android apps won't have that hurdle
to surmount, but that's to be proven one way or the other.

[JS]

I heard the next version was going to be a bit larger, called the
Maxi Pad.
Jim

On Jan 27, 12:44*pm, Gliderphud > wrote:

> I would guess we will see a 6.5" to 7" model in the future, between an
> iPhone and current iPad. *Great new technology coming in the next few
> years.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 27, 11:34*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:10*am, Mario > wrote:
>
> >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > would make an app for this.
>
> Beat me to the punch.
>
> 10 hrs of battery life they say. Plus a nice 9", seemingly bright
> screen, USB, bluetooth for GPS connectivity (don't think it has one on
> board), SD slot (I think) lightweight. $499 entry price. You could
> just strap it to your leg instead of taking up panel space.
>
> Get to work porting soaring software guys! *First one there gets my
> money.
>
> 9B


You sure about that Bluetooth? iPhones do not (so far) support
Bluetooth serial profiles. The solutions that do external GPS to an
iPhone are all hardwired AFAIK. And to be officially supported you
need to go via the dock port API which involves work, you can't just
plug in any random serial port device. The internal iPhone location
service API sucks for what you really want for a real aviation
application, so for anything serious, it's NMEA from an external
hardwired GPS. That of course assumes the iPad SDK will behave like
the current iPhone SDK. So it's all doable with a few hoop jumps.

So besides size (likely too big), daylight readability remains the big
question. It's apparently just a LED backlit IPS screen, without any
other information my startting point would be to assume daylight
readability to be no better than say a current LED backlit IPS glossy
Macbook screen. It would be nice if it was better, we'll have to see.

Darryl

[Andy[_10_]]

On Jan 27, 6:14*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 11:34*am, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 27, 11:10*am, Mario > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=...
>
> > > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > > would make an app for this.
>
> > Beat me to the punch.
>
> > 10 hrs of battery life they say. Plus a nice 9", seemingly bright
> > screen, USB, bluetooth for GPS connectivity (don't think it has one on
> > board), SD slot (I think) lightweight. $499 entry price. You could
> > just strap it to your leg instead of taking up panel space.
>
> > Get to work porting soaring software guys! *First one there gets my
> > money.
>
> > 9B
>
> You sure about that Bluetooth? iPhones do not (so far) support
> Bluetooth serial profiles. The solutions that do external GPS to an
> iPhone are all hardwired AFAIK. And to be officially supported you
> need to go via the dock port API which involves work, you can't just
> plug in any random serial port device. The internal iPhone location
> service API sucks for what you really want for a real aviation
> application, so for anything serious, it's NMEA from an external
> hardwired GPS. That of course assumes the iPad SDK will behave like
> the current iPhone SDK. So it's all doable with a few hoop jumps.
>
> So besides size (likely too big), daylight readability remains the big
> question. It's apparently just a LED backlit IPS screen, without any
> other information my startting point would be to assume daylight
> readability to be no better than say a current LED backlit IPS glossy
> Macbook screen. It would be nice if it was better, we'll have to see.
>
> Darryl

Yeah, good points. I think the screen is decent, but not ideal - good
res, but who knows about brightness/contrast. There was hope that it
would be LED or OLED, but alas, no. There is likely little reason for
Apple to open up much except possibly for fact that they no longer
have the phone app to absolutely protect from rogue programs.

9B

[[email protected]]

On Jan 27, 4:48*pm, JS > wrote:
> * I heard the next version was going to be a bit larger, called the
> Maxi Pad.
> Jim
>
>

Really? I heard that to0, but also that it would come with wings....

aerodyne

[John Cochrane]

> $499 is the entry-level price. SeeYou Mobile is, what, $250 per copy?
> Add another hundred or two for a bluetooth GPS and it looks pretty
> good compared to a ClearNav or Ultimate - but we'll see.
>
> 9B- Hide quoted text -
>

Hmm Add another 900 for the igc logger you'll need for contest/badge/
olc, add another 200 for mounting hardware, another hundred or so for
extras you didn't think you needed, and ClearNav sounds to look cheap!
To say nothing of instant hardware support from the manufacturer, no
more hard reboots at the start gate or on the ridge and so forth.

John Cochrane

[Andy[_10_]]

On Jan 27, 9:24*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> > $499 is the entry-level price. SeeYou Mobile is, what, $250 per copy?
> > Add another hundred or two for a bluetooth GPS and it looks pretty
> > good compared to a ClearNav or Ultimate - but we'll see.
>
> > 9B- Hide quoted text -
>
> Hmm Add another 900 for the igc logger you'll need for contest/badge/
> olc, add another 200 for mounting hardware, another hundred or so for
> extras you didn't think you needed, and ClearNav sounds to look cheap!
> To say nothing of instant hardware support from the manufacturer, no
> more hard reboots at the start gate or on the ridge and so forth.
>
> John Cochrane

Okay - you caught me being overly enthusiastic. I live a couple of
miles from Steve Jobs and the reality distortion field is strong that
close in.

9B

[[email protected]]

On Jan 27, 9:36*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 9:24*pm, John Cochrane >
> wrote:
>
> > > $499 is the entry-level price. SeeYou Mobile is, what, $250 per copy?
> > > Add another hundred or two for a bluetooth GPS and it looks pretty
> > > good compared to a ClearNav or Ultimate - but we'll see.
>
> > > 9B- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Hmm Add another 900 for the igc logger you'll need for contest/badge/
> > olc, add another 200 for mounting hardware, another hundred or so for
> > extras you didn't think you needed, and ClearNav sounds to look cheap!
> > To say nothing of instant hardware support from the manufacturer, no
> > more hard reboots at the start gate or on the ridge and so forth.
>
> > John Cochrane
>
> Okay - you caught me being overly enthusiastic. *I live a couple of
> miles from Steve Jobs and the reality distortion field is strong that
> close in.
>
> 9B

Forget all that expensive ****....

Check this out... 4.3" display, integrated GPS, runs CE6. less than
$100 plus you can add a copy of XCSOAR for free.

http://www.tootoomart.com/product-3069387-4.3

I know what I will be testing this summer.

[Brian Whatcott]

wrote:
..
>
> Check this out... 4.3" display, integrated GPS, runs CE6. less than
> $100 plus you can add a copy of XCSOAR for free.
>
> http://www.tootoomart.com/product-3069387-4.3
>
> I know what I will be testing this summer.

$90...hmmmm 600 MHz processor tft display built in gps....

Brian W

[Mottley[_2_]]

On Jan 28, 12:34*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> .
>
>
>
> > Check this out... 4.3" display, integrated GPS, runs CE6. less than
> > $100 plus you can add a copy of XCSOAR for free.
>
> >http://www.tootoomart.com/product-3069387-4.3
>
> > I know what I will be testing this summer.
>
> $90...hmmmm * 600 MHz processor tft display built in gps....
>
> Brian W


Hi
I would wait for the Pixel Qi Technology Screen/Tablets which have the
Sunlight read technology we need in Soaring
http://www.slashgear.com/notion-ink-tegra-android-smartpad-uses-pixel-qi-display-1866308/

Bruno

[db_sonic]

On Jan 28, 4:54*am, Mottley > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 12:34*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > .
>
> > > Check this out... 4.3" display, integrated GPS, runs CE6. less than
> > > $100 plus you can add a copy of XCSOAR for free.
>
> > >http://www.tootoomart.com/product-3069387-4.3
>
> > > I know what I will be testing this summer.
>
> > $90...hmmmm * 600 MHz processor tft display built in gps....
>
> > Brian W
>
> Hi
> I would wait for the Pixel Qi Technology Screen/Tablets which have the
> Sunlight read technology we need in Soaringhttp://www.slashgear.com/notion-ink-tegra-android-smartpad-uses-pixel...
>
> Bruno- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I heartily endorse Bruno's suggestion. Low power Nvidia Tegra 2 chip
is killer.
See You could even run in 3D mode by harnessing the GPU inside.

Darren
(who works on Tegra when not soaring)

[Pawnee Pilot]

Or a 7" version

http://www.tootoomart.com/product-2995168-LF70B++7/'/'portable+GPS+navigation+/

> Forget all that expensive ****....
>
> Check this out... 4.3" display, integrated GPS, runs CE6. less than
> $100 plus you can add a copy of XCSOAR for free.
>
> http://www.tootoomart.com/product-3069387-4.3
>
> I know what I will be testing this summer.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[noel.wade]

The big catch with those cheapie units you guys are posting links to
is their low screen resolution. Only ~270 or ~240 lines of pixels? :-
P
(they also have small battery capacities from what I can tell)

Since none of these "roll your own" systems are going to be IGC-legal
for badges/records, why not simply use an IGC-legal external computer/
logger with its own GPS (a la the ewMicroRecorder or similar)?

Ditching the GPS component from the PDA/PNA means a simpler device
with a much lower power consumption level. Seems to me that there are
a lot of non-graphical (but IGC-legal) loggers and flight computers
out there, and most work fine. Its the moving-map/navigation aspect
that needs work - so why not concentrate on that?

And If your GPS fails, you _do_ have charts in your plane... don't
you??

--Noel

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:22:14 -0800, noel.wade wrote:

> Ditching the GPS component from the PDA/PNA means a simpler device with
> a much lower power consumption level. Seems to me that there are a lot
> of non-graphical (but IGC-legal) loggers and flight computers out there,
> and most work fine. Its the moving-map/navigation aspect that needs
> work - so why not concentrate on that?
>
Power consumption isn't a problem once you've connected the PNA to your
main battery: looked at that way, it doesn't really matter where the GPS
engine is because it will be sucking on your 12v supply no matter where
its installed.

In the UK, anyway, PNAs are both cheaper than PDAs and there's a much
bigger range available, so they are the obvious beasts to buy. Their main
drawback is the lack of any form of serial port provide a NMEA feed to a
logger or a decent vario.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

On Jan 29, 11:22*am, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> The big catch with those cheapie units you guys are posting links to
> is their low screen resolution. *Only ~270 or ~240 lines of pixels? *:-
> P

All the IPAQ 3600/3800/3900 most of us have been flying with for years
have the same screen res.
470/240 is not a problem in fact it makes the screen refreshes faster
than units with higher res. but same speed processors.


> (they also have small battery capacities from what I can tell)

Thats why you wire them into the ships power like a regular IPAQ
solution.

>
> Since none of these "roll your own" systems are going to be IGC-legal
> for badges/records, why not simply use an IGC-legal external computer/
> logger with its own GPS (a la the ewMicroRecorder or similar)?

Most flights flown can use the software generated IGC files to post to
OLC which is what 99% of flights are.
If you want to get badges or records then you will have a full IGC
logger in your possession anyway

>
> Ditching the GPS component from the PDA/PNA means a simpler device
> with a much lower power consumption level. *Seems to me that there are
> a lot of non-graphical (but IGC-legal) loggers and flight computers
> out there, and most work fine. *Its the moving-map/navigation aspect
> that needs work - so why not concentrate on that?

The integrated GPS uses a lot less current than an separate device.
Have you even seen the latest versions of XCSOAR?

>
> And If your GPS fails, you _do_ have charts in your plane... don't
> you??
>

Charts LOL of course and they are all up to date as well.

Regards

Al

[[email protected]]

On Jan 29, 11:22*am, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> The big catch with those cheapie units you guys are posting links to
> is their low screen resolution. *Only ~270 or ~240 lines of pixels? *:-
> P

All the IPAQ 3600/3800/3900 most of us have been flying with for years
have the same screen res.
470/240 is not a problem in fact it makes the screen refreshes faster
than units with higher res. but same speed processors.


> (they also have small battery capacities from what I can tell)

Thats why you wire them into the ships power like a regular IPAQ
solution.

>
> Since none of these "roll your own" systems are going to be IGC-legal
> for badges/records, why not simply use an IGC-legal external computer/
> logger with its own GPS (a la the ewMicroRecorder or similar)?

Most flights flown can use the software generated IGC files to post to
OLC which is what 99% of flights are.
If you want to get badges or records then you will have a full IGC
logger in your possession anyway

>
> Ditching the GPS component from the PDA/PNA means a simpler device
> with a much lower power consumption level. *Seems to me that there are
> a lot of non-graphical (but IGC-legal) loggers and flight computers
> out there, and most work fine. *Its the moving-map/navigation aspect
> that needs work - so why not concentrate on that?

The integrated GPS uses a lot less current than an separate device.
Have you even seen the latest versions of XCSOAR?

>
> And If your GPS fails, you _do_ have charts in your plane... don't
> you??
>

Charts LOL of course and they are all up to date as well.

Regards

Al

[noel.wade]

Couple of clarifications (not that I don't appreciate the humor and
consider this a "light-hearted" topic...

1) Yes, I'm a huge user of XCSoar - I even put together a short video
tutorial, which is on the XCSoar site. Someday I'll finish the other
videos in the series that I intended to make...

2) What I was trying to say was that most people _already_ have a GPS
in their cockpit somewhere. Buying a PNA or other device with its
_own_ GPS means having extra current draw/power-demand. I don't care
if its the internal battery or ship's power - duplicating functions
like that is wasting usable electrons, period. ;-P

--Noel

[bildan]

On Jan 27, 12:29*pm, Sandy Stevenson > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
>
> >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=....
>
> > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > would make an app for this.
>
> At 9.71 inches, this device seems a bit large for a glider cockpit.


No problem with a 10 inch display - as long as it's thin and light.

Make a mount with a hinge at the top so it can be flipped up. Put a
full glass cockpit/glide computer display on it. If it fails, flip it
up to reveal the old "steam gauges" underneath. Take it out for the
annual.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 1, 3:45*pm, bildan > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 12:29*pm, Sandy Stevenson > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
>
> > >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=...
>
> > > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > > would make an app for this.
>
> > At 9.71 inches, this device seems a bit large for a glider cockpit.
>
> No problem with a 10 inch display - as long as it's thin and light.
>
> Make a mount with a hinge at the top so it can be flipped up. *Put a
> full glass cockpit/glide computer display on it. *If it fails, flip it
> up to reveal the old "steam gauges" underneath. *Take it out for the
> annual.

There was a PW5 pilot that had that with a monster hang glider
instrument on top of this regular instruments.

I preffer the mix of steam and high tech.

[bildan]

On Feb 1, 9:58*pm, " >
wrote:
> On Feb 1, 3:45*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 27, 12:29*pm, Sandy Stevenson > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=...
>
> > > > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > > > would make an app for this.
>
> > > At 9.71 inches, this device seems a bit large for a glider cockpit.
>
> > No problem with a 10 inch display - as long as it's thin and light.
>
> > Make a mount with a hinge at the top so it can be flipped up. *Put a
> > full glass cockpit/glide computer display on it. *If it fails, flip it
> > up to reveal the old "steam gauges" underneath. *Take it out for the
> > annual.
>
> There was a PW5 pilot that had that with a monster hang glider
> instrument on top of this regular instruments.
>
> I preffer the mix of steam and high tech.

Al, I always suspected you were into "Steam Punk".

[[email protected]]

On Feb 2, 7:05*am, bildan > wrote:
> On Feb 1, 9:58*pm, " >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 3:45*pm, bildan > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 27, 12:29*pm, Sandy Stevenson > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 27, 12:10*pm, Mario > wrote:
>
> > > > >http://www.macworld.com/article/145805/2010/01/apple_event.html?lsrc=...
>
> > > > > Now if only SeeYou, flyWithCE, Glide Navigator II, or someone (Dave)
> > > > > would make an app for this.
>
> > > > At 9.71 inches, this device seems a bit large for a glider cockpit.
>
> > > No problem with a 10 inch display - as long as it's thin and light.
>
> > > Make a mount with a hinge at the top so it can be flipped up. *Put a
> > > full glass cockpit/glide computer display on it. *If it fails, flip it
> > > up to reveal the old "steam gauges" underneath. *Take it out for the
> > > annual.
>
> > There was a PW5 pilot that had that with a monster hang glider
> > instrument on top of this regular instruments.
>
> > I preffer the mix of steam and high tech.
>
> Al, I always suspected you were into "Steam Punk".

Hey I have even been know to fly a PW5 once!!

That was enough...