LS8 Panel in AutoCAD?

[jcarlyle]

I've got an LS8, whose panel outline looks similar to these three on
the top of this site:
http://www.solairecanada.com/index2.htm

Would anyone have an AutoCAD file for this panel outline shape that
they'd be willing to share? I've tried DG and the LS group, with no
luck. I'm trying to see if I could fit a ClearNav in before I buy a
new blank.

Thanks,
John

[jcarlyle]

Darn. To see the panels, after you click on the link go to the left
side and click on Cockpits.

-John

[brianDG303[_2_]]

On Jan 30, 10:23*am, jcarlyle > wrote:
> Darn. To see the panels, after you click on the link go to the left
> side and click on Cockpits.
>
> -John

Here is a suggestion- go to:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/instrument-panel-e.html



and select the LS8 panel file, that may be enough for your use. If
not, convert it to an image file (with free software MWSnap) and
import that into AutoCad. Then draw on a layer over the image file. I
did the same thing for a DG300 and clearnav was just never going to
fit.

Brian

[jcarlyle]

Good suggestion, Brian, but there are two problems. First, you can't
get the panel size very accurately off DG's drawing in order to scale
it properly in AutoCAD. Second, there's no ClearNav thingy offered by
DG, and the scale problem arises getting one into their drawing.
Still, it may be good enough for a first approximation - I'll play
around with it.

If anyone has a dimensioned LS8 panel outline in AutoCAD, though, I'd
be grateful for a copy. R14 dwg format would work best.

-John

On Jan 30, 3:45 pm, brianDG303 > wrote:
> Here is a suggestion- go to:
>
> http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/instrument-panel-e.html
>
> and select the LS8 panel file, that may be enough for your use. If
> not, convert it to an image file (with free software MWSnap) and
> import that into AutoCad. Then draw on a layer over the image file. I
> did the same thing for a DG300 and clearnav was just never going to
> fit.

[brianDG303[_2_]]

On Jan 30, 1:20*pm, jcarlyle > wrote:
> Good suggestion, Brian, but there are two problems. First, you can't
> get the panel size very accurately off DG's drawing in order to scale
> it properly in AutoCAD. Second, there's no ClearNav thingy offered by
> DG, and the scale problem arises getting one into their drawing.
> Still, it may be good enough for a first approximation - I'll play
> around with it.
>
> If anyone has a dimensioned LS8 panel outline in AutoCAD, though, I'd
> be grateful for a copy. R14 dwg format would work best.
>
> -John
>
> On Jan 30, 3:45 pm, brianDG303 > wrote:
>
> > Here is a suggestion- go to:
>
> >http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/instrument-panel-e.html
>
> > and select the LS8 panel file, that may be enough for your use. If
> > not, convert it to an image file (with free software MWSnap) and
> > import that into AutoCad. Then draw on a layer over the image file. I
> > did the same thing for a DG300 and clearnav was just never going to
> > fit.

John,
Many of the instruments are dimensioned, so you could just scale up or
down until they measured correctly, and then you could draw a clearnav
or paste in an image file and scale that until it matched as well.

But of course if you can get the DWG file from someone all the
better.

good luck,
Brian

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:22:29 -0800, brianDG303 wrote:
>
> Many of the instruments are dimensioned, so you could just scale up or
> down until they measured correctly, and then you could draw a clearnav
> or paste in an image file and scale that until it matched as well.
>
I've done that with another CAD package (TrueCAD for Windows, a medium
priced 2-D CAD package). My method should work with any 2-D CAD system of
at least equal capability to TrueCAD, so ACAD should do it easily. Here
are the steps:
- pick a pair of measurement points, which must show up really clearly
and be as sharp as possible. The further apart they are the better
the final accuracy will be.
- measure between the points as accurately as possible
- make a photo of the panel.
- pull the image of the panel into your CAD system
- start a new layer and draw round the significant lines etc on the photo
using a cubic spline and enough points to give smooth curves. Avoid
using polygons because these need lots of points to approximate smooth.
Draw 3 point circles where possible.
- delete the photo layer
- adjust the scale of the drawing until the CAD measurement tool givess
the correct measurement. TrueCAD lets you select the points and
specify the distance you want, which sets the correct drawing scale,
and then adjust the zoom factor to fill the window, so ACAD will
probably do the same.

I use this trick when designing free flight models. I can generate a
scaleless wing section with a section plotting program, pull it into
TrueCAD and adjust it to match the required wing chord. Getting the chord
right within 0.05mm was trivial, so the main limitation on your accuracy
will be that of picking suitable points on the panel and of getting an
accurate measurement. I think I'd use a metric ruler to place masking
tape patches with their edges parallel and an exact number of mm apart
before making the photo. I'd also mark the exact measurement places with
pencil lines at right angles to the edges.

Its my experience that some ways of using CAD are not all that obvious,
so I hope I'm not telling you stuff you already know.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[jcarlyle]

Trouble is, PowerPoint doesn't hold the scale properly. If you
investigate you'll find that if you scale a 57 mm line off of the 80
mm instruments, that line won't match the 57 mm instrument circle. And
vice versa for the 57 mm to 80 mm instruments. So getting the correct
dimensions for the panel from the PowerPoint drawing is really a non-
starter.

-John

On Jan 30, 5:22 pm, brianDG303 > wrote:
> Many of the instruments are dimensioned, so you could just scale up or
> down until they measured correctly, and then you could draw a clearnav
> or paste in an image file and scale that until it matched as well.

[jcarlyle]

Thanks for the detailed approach, Martin. I use AutoCAD once every
couple of years, and it's not an easy program to use in such an
intermittent mode (especially when you're self taught).

The problem right now is your 4th step 'make a photo of the panel'.
The glider is not accessible, and I don't have a new blank panel
available. Thus I'm stuck for a few months, if I can't locate a R14
dwg of the panel outline.

-John

On Jan 30, 7:02 pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> I've done that with another CAD package (TrueCAD for Windows, a medium
> priced 2-D CAD package). My method should work with any 2-D CAD system of
> at least equal capability to TrueCAD, so ACAD should do it easily. Here
> are the steps:
> - pick a pair of measurement points, which must show up really clearly
> and be as sharp as possible. The further apart they are the better
> the final accuracy will be.
> - measure between the points as accurately as possible
> - make a photo of the panel.
> - pull the image of the panel into your CAD system
> - start a new layer and draw round the significant lines etc on the photo
> using a cubic spline and enough points to give smooth curves. Avoid
> using polygons because these need lots of points to approximate smooth.
> Draw 3 point circles where possible.
> - delete the photo layer
> - adjust the scale of the drawing until the CAD measurement tool givess
> the correct measurement. TrueCAD lets you select the points and
> specify the distance you want, which sets the correct drawing scale,
> and then adjust the zoom factor to fill the window, so ACAD will
> probably do the same.
>
> I use this trick when designing free flight models. I can generate a
> scaleless wing section with a section plotting program, pull it into
> TrueCAD and adjust it to match the required wing chord. Getting the chord
> right within 0.05mm was trivial, so the main limitation on your accuracy
> will be that of picking suitable points on the panel and of getting an
> accurate measurement. I think I'd use a metric ruler to place masking
> tape patches with their edges parallel and an exact number of mm apart
> before making the photo. I'd also mark the exact measurement places with
> pencil lines at right angles to the edges.
>
> Its my experience that some ways of using CAD are not all that obvious,
> so I hope I'm not telling you stuff you already know.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:28:47 -0800, jcarlyle wrote:

> Thanks for the detailed approach, Martin. I use AutoCAD once every
> couple of years, and it's not an easy program to use in such an
> intermittent mode (especially when you're self taught).
>
I know the problem well (and not just with CAD packages).

> The problem right now is your 4th step 'make a photo of the panel'. The
> glider is not accessible, and I don't have a new blank panel available.
> Thus I'm stuck for a few months, if I can't locate a R14 dwg of the
> panel outline.
>
I didn't realise that - sorry.

Maybe somebody with an LS8 that's not put away for the northern winter
could be prevailed on to apply masking tape, measure, photograph and peel
off the tape? It seems to me its the sort of job that takes almost more
time to describe than do.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Morgan[_2_]]

Another tool to consider looking at is Google Sketchup.

http://sketchup.google.com/

I have found it very easy and powerful to use, especially for a task
like this that requires the creation of some new shapes like a box to
represent your clearNav. It takes a little practice and following of
tutorials (online videos make it nice) to understand how to create
precise models, but you can do really detailed and accurate 3D
renderings.

This doesn't solve your issue of getting an LS-8 panel starting point,
but you may find it easier than Autocad if you aren't using Autocad on
a regular basis.



On Jan 31, 12:07*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:28:47 -0800, jcarlyle wrote:
> > Thanks for the detailed approach, Martin. I use AutoCAD once every
> > couple of years, and it's not an easy program to use in such an
> > intermittent mode (especially when you're self taught).
>
> I know the problem well (and not just with CAD packages).
>
> > The problem right now is your 4th step 'make a photo of the panel'. The
> > glider is not accessible, and I don't have a new blank panel available.
> > Thus I'm stuck for a few months, if I can't locate a R14 dwg of the
> > panel outline.
>
> I didn't realise that - sorry.
>
> Maybe somebody with an LS8 that's not put away for the northern winter *
> could be prevailed on to apply masking tape, measure, photograph and peel
> off the tape? It seems to me its the sort of job that takes almost more
> time to describe than do.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

[Chris]

On Feb 1, 8:17*am, Morgan > wrote:
> Another tool to consider looking at is Google Sketchup.
>
> http://sketchup.google.com/
>
> I have found it very easy and powerful to use, especially for a task
> like this that requires the creation of some new shapes like a box to
> represent your clearNav. *It takes a little practice and following of
> tutorials (online videos make it nice) to understand how to create
> precise models, but you can do really detailed and accurate 3D
> renderings.
>
> This doesn't solve your issue of getting an LS-8 panel starting point,
> but you may find it easier than Autocad if you aren't using Autocad on
> a regular basis.
>
> On Jan 31, 12:07*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:28:47 -0800, jcarlyle wrote:
> > > Thanks for the detailed approach, Martin. I use AutoCAD once every
> > > couple of years, and it's not an easy program to use in such an
> > > intermittent mode (especially when you're self taught).
>
> > I know the problem well (and not just with CAD packages).
>
> > > The problem right now is your 4th step 'make a photo of the panel'. The
> > > glider is not accessible, and I don't have a new blank panel available.
> > > Thus I'm stuck for a few months, if I can't locate a R14 dwg of the
> > > panel outline.
>
> > I didn't realise that - sorry.
>
> > Maybe somebody with an LS8 that's not put away for the northern winter *
> > could be prevailed on to apply masking tape, measure, photograph and peel
> > off the tape? It seems to me its the sort of job that takes almost more
> > time to describe than do.
>
> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |

If you're still in need of a LS8 panel template, send me an email. I
can provide you with the .DXF file that I used for water jetting a
panel for my LS8 last year.

Incidentally, I can't recommend Sketchup for doing this kind of work.
Sketchup does not actually produce curves, is produces polygons to
approximate curves (with a limit of something like 255 facets for a
circle). On the screen this will look smooth, but if you laser cut or
water jet a panel designed this way, you'll find that instruments
often do not to fit. Ideally, use software like Solidworks (but it's
expensive and has a steep learning curve); failing that, you can do a
pretty good job in Adobe Illustrator (although maintaining tolerances
can become a problem).

Cheers,
Chris

[[email protected]]

Hey Chris,

I'm also interested in your dxf file of the ls8 panel. If you still have it, I would be very if you would send it to me. Thanks in advance
Pascal

[SF]

John,
I took my panel into the local AutoCad dealer. We traced the outline on a sheet of paper, scanned it in on a large format scanner. Then imported the image into AutoCad. Created another layer on top of it and traced over it in AutoCad. Then you just use the scale function to make your AutoCad drawing match the actual dimensions. I also tried a laser scanner intended for flat work at the local gasket supply shop (they all use waterjet cutters now). The raised lip on my 27's panel threw it off enough to make that unusable.

I can send you an AutoCad panel drawing with a ClearNav tunnel mount in it if that would help. Take the dashes out of the following 211---fletcher---AT---gmail.----com. I bought the mount, and measured it for the drawing. The rear overhang is important with the tunnel mount, you can put some short stuff up under it a little, giving you some more room.

SF

[[email protected]]

Den onsdag den 3. februar 2010 kl. 02.53.22 UTC+1 skrev Chris:
> On Feb 1, 8:17Â*am, Morgan > wrote:
> > Another tool to consider looking at is Google Sketchup.
> >
> > http://sketchup.google.com/
> >
> > I have found it very easy and powerful to use, especially for a task
> > like this that requires the creation of some new shapes like a box to
> > represent your clearNav. Â*It takes a little practice and following of
> > tutorials (online videos make it nice) to understand how to create
> > precise models, but you can do really detailed and accurate 3D
> > renderings.
> >
> > This doesn't solve your issue of getting an LS-8 panel starting point,
> > but you may find it easier than Autocad if you aren't using Autocad on
> > a regular basis.
> >
> > On Jan 31, 12:07Â*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:28:47 -0800, jcarlyle wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the detailed approach, Martin. I use AutoCAD once every
> > > > couple of years, and it's not an easy program to use in such an
> > > > intermittent mode (especially when you're self taught).
> >
> > > I know the problem well (and not just with CAD packages).
> >
> > > > The problem right now is your 4th step 'make a photo of the panel'. The
> > > > glider is not accessible, and I don't have a new blank panel available.
> > > > Thus I'm stuck for a few months, if I can't locate a R14 dwg of the
> > > > panel outline.
> >
> > > I didn't realise that - sorry.
> >
> > > Maybe somebody with an LS8 that's not put away for the northern winter Â*
> > > could be prevailed on to apply masking tape, measure, photograph and peel
> > > off the tape? It seems to me its the sort of job that takes almost more
> > > time to describe than do.
> >
> > > --
> > > martin@ Â* | Martin Gregorie
> > > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > > org Â* Â* Â* |
>
> If you're still in need of a LS8 panel template, send me an email. I
> can provide you with the .DXF file that I used for water jetting a
> panel for my LS8 last year.
>
> Incidentally, I can't recommend Sketchup for doing this kind of work.
> Sketchup does not actually produce curves, is produces polygons to
> approximate curves (with a limit of something like 255 facets for a
> circle). On the screen this will look smooth, but if you laser cut or
> water jet a panel designed this way, you'll find that instruments
> often do not to fit. Ideally, use software like Solidworks (but it's
> expensive and has a steep learning curve); failing that, you can do a
> pretty good job in Adobe Illustrator (although maintaining tolerances
> can become a problem).
>
> Cheers,
> Chris

Hi Chris

Do you still have a .DXF file for a LS8 cockpit? I'm looking for the big instrumentpanel for the LS8.

Best regards
Thomas Grove, Denmark

[John Bojack J4]

Dont forget, the instruments not only have to fit on the face of the panel but also have to clear the support structures behind the panel.