A6 Intruder----Question?

[Kurt {:{]

Hi,
-
I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
Material---titanium?
-
Thanks.
-
Kurt
{:{

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 10/28/03 6:27 AM, in article
, "Kurt {:{"
> wrote:

> Hi,
> -
> I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
> caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
> mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
> wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
> the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
> Material---titanium?
> -
> Thanks.
> -
> Kurt
> {:{
>

A couple of things here:

1. There are no more A-6's flying. Haven't been since 1997. So you were
either looking at an Intruder on a stick or an EA-6B Prowler which--despite
its appearance--is definitely a different animal.

2. The mesh "feathers" you mention aren't familiar to me. (Of course, it's
been a while since I pre-flighted the drumstick.) Where is this "inner ID"
you're talking about? Is that the inlet duct? If so, my guess is that you
were looking at a gutted airplane on a stick and that the mesh material you
saw was an after-market add-on meant to keep birds out. It's not standard
equipment on a flying Intruder.

--Woody

[Larry]

> I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder.
It must have been WAY back- no A-6E Intruders are flying anymore since
VA-196 sent the last to the desert in the mid 90's. What you saw was likely
an EA-6B Prowler, easily recognizable by the two canopy (four seat)
configuration.

> I caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
> mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
> wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is,
The exhaust ducts hang suspended away from the heat shield in the rear of
the engine cavity to facilitate movement of cooling air around the engine.
These "turkey feathers" (the official nickname by the way) you saw, make up
the rear barrier of this ventilated area. They are some high-temp alloy, but
I'm not sure if it titanium or not.

When I worked QA in the Prowler community, a detailed inspection of this
area was required during every engine change or drop. The "turkey feathers"
also help keep the tailpipe centered, which is essential for safe flight.



Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)







"Kurt {:{" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
> -
> I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
> caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
> mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
> wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
> the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
> Material---titanium?
> -
> Thanks.
> -
> Kurt
> {:{
>

[Andrew Venor]

Larry wrote:
>>I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder.
>
> It must have been WAY back- no A-6E Intruders are flying anymore since
> VA-196 sent the last to the desert in the mid 90's. What you saw was likely
> an EA-6B Prowler, easily recognizable by the two canopy (four seat)
> configuration.

Unless he went to the airshow they had in Eugene, OR a few months back.
The Oregon Air and Space Museum towed their A-6 out of the hanger and
had it on display for the weekend.

ALV

[Larry]

> Unless he went to the airshow they had in Eugene, OR a few months back.
> The Oregon Air and Space Museum towed their A-6 out of the hanger and
> had it on display for the weekend.
Cool. I didn't know they had one down there.

The motors are basically the same configuration as the Prowler (just a
little less thrust).


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)



"Andrew Venor" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Larry wrote:
> >>I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder.
> >
> > It must have been WAY back- no A-6E Intruders are flying anymore since
> > VA-196 sent the last to the desert in the mid 90's. What you saw was
likely
> > an EA-6B Prowler, easily recognizable by the two canopy (four seat)
> > configuration.
>
> Unless he went to the airshow they had in Eugene, OR a few months back.
> The Oregon Air and Space Museum towed their A-6 out of the hanger and
> had it on display for the weekend.
>
> ALV
>

[Kurt {:{]

Hi guys,
-
Thanks for the response.
-
Yeah, I'm former Navy myself---SEABEES, Builder Rate.
-
"Awhile back" for me was about 1991 to a commercial airport, just south
of Scranton, PA , them doing a military air show, also with the Blue
Angels F-18's. I think the facility was called Aviation Park, just off
Rt.81.
-
It was a two seater A6 Intruder with a refuelling arm out the front of
it and one Navy pilot in a flight suit was tending to it, he looked
kinda' bored. I should have asked him my question then, but I didn't.
I was looking in the tail end of the engine. These "turkey feathers"
were right there at the rear end of the exhaust, a circular ID laying
and overlapping and interconnecting other "turkey feathers," they were
laying on top of the ID of the external metal of the outer combustion
chamber. Sorry about the lousy description, I'm not familiar with the
jargon of such stuff.
-
I frequent rec.crafts.metalworking and I 1st posted these questions
there. One guy wrote me privately to try your site here as to a more
detailed explanation. And the best explanation so far, if indeed it is
true, from a Brit off the metalworking site. I thought former Navy
aviators would have given a more detailed, aerodynamic engineering
explanation.
-
But thanks anyway,
-
Kurt
{:{
+++++++++
========
His reply:
========
Re: A6 Intruder----Question?
~~~~~~~
Group: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, Oct 27, 2003, 10:14pm (EST+5)
~~~~~~~
"Don't know how they're made but the tail feathers are used to form the
variable geometry exhaust nozzle. They close down or open up to control
the jet exhaust and hence thrust. I suspect that they are titanium."
-+-
==============
My original query:
==============
re:
-
-
Re: A6 Intruder----Question?
-
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:31 -0500 (EST), (Kurt {:{)
wrote:
-
Hi,
-
I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
Material---titanium?
-
No, I'm not into the inner workings of such.
-
Thanks.
-
Kurt
{:{

[Andrew Venor]

Larry wrote:
>>Unless he went to the airshow they had in Eugene, OR a few months back.
>> The Oregon Air and Space Museum towed their A-6 out of the hanger and
>>had it on display for the weekend.
>
> Cool. I didn't know they had one down there.
>
> The motors are basically the same configuration as the Prowler (just a
> little less thrust).
>
>
> Larry
> AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
> Disabled Combat Veteran
> USN Retired
>
> 20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
> and getting further away every day ;-)

It's a small museum on the back side of the airport, but it has a couple
of nice aircraft in the collection.

http://www.oasm.org/

ALV

>
>
>
> "Andrew Venor" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>Larry wrote:
>>
>>>>I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder.
>>>
>>>It must have been WAY back- no A-6E Intruders are flying anymore since
>>>VA-196 sent the last to the desert in the mid 90's. What you saw was
>
> likely
>
>>>an EA-6B Prowler, easily recognizable by the two canopy (four seat)
>>>configuration.
>>
>>Unless he went to the airshow they had in Eugene, OR a few months back.
>> The Oregon Air and Space Museum towed their A-6 out of the hanger and
>>had it on display for the weekend.
>>
>>ALV
>>
>
>
>

[Larry]

>Some guy thought he knew what he was talking about when he spouted:
>"Don't know how they're made but the tail feathers are used to form the
>variable geometry exhaust nozzle. They close down or open up to control
>the jet exhaust and hence thrust.
LMAO! Nope- not even close.

Prowlers and Intruders (all flavors of the A-6 family) just got a little
bend in the exhaust- nothing more.

Thanks for the chuckle! :-)


--
Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
(way too much time spent on broken Intruders)


"Kurt {:{" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys,
> -
> Thanks for the response.
> -
> Yeah, I'm former Navy myself---SEABEES, Builder Rate.
> -
> "Awhile back" for me was about 1991 to a commercial airport, just south
> of Scranton, PA , them doing a military air show, also with the Blue
> Angels F-18's. I think the facility was called Aviation Park, just off
> Rt.81.
> -
> It was a two seater A6 Intruder with a refuelling arm out the front of
> it and one Navy pilot in a flight suit was tending to it, he looked
> kinda' bored. I should have asked him my question then, but I didn't.
> I was looking in the tail end of the engine. These "turkey feathers"
> were right there at the rear end of the exhaust, a circular ID laying
> and overlapping and interconnecting other "turkey feathers," they were
> laying on top of the ID of the external metal of the outer combustion
> chamber. Sorry about the lousy description, I'm not familiar with the
> jargon of such stuff.
> -
> I frequent rec.crafts.metalworking and I 1st posted these questions
> there. One guy wrote me privately to try your site here as to a more
> detailed explanation. And the best explanation so far, if indeed it is
> true, from a Brit off the metalworking site. I thought former Navy
> aviators would have given a more detailed, aerodynamic engineering
> explanation.
> -
> But thanks anyway,
> -
> Kurt
> {:{
> +++++++++
> ========
> His reply:
> ========
> Re: A6 Intruder----Question?
> ~~~~~~~
> Group: rec.crafts.metalworking Date: Mon, Oct 27, 2003, 10:14pm (EST+5)
> ~~~~~~~
> "Don't know how they're made but the tail feathers are used to form the
> variable geometry exhaust nozzle. They close down or open up to control
> the jet exhaust and hence thrust. I suspect that they are titanium."
> -+-
> ==============
> My original query:
> ==============
> re:
> -
> -
> Re: A6 Intruder----Question?
> -
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:50:31 -0500 (EST), (Kurt {:{)
> wrote:
> -
> Hi,
> -
> I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
> caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
> mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
> wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
> the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
> Material---titanium?
> -
> No, I'm not into the inner workings of such.
> -
> Thanks.
> -
> Kurt
> {:{
>

[user]

Prowler Motors are mostly J52-408Bravo's now. Same thrust as the
408A's (10,400 - 11,200 lbs per motor) but modified to try and
eliminate the "chugs", (didn't work, the compressor still stalls under
the right conditions), also have new 3 1/2 bearings and a reinforced
or beefed up compressor casing.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:27:07 -0500 (EST), (Kurt
{:{) wrote:

>Hi,
>-
>I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
>caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
>mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
>wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
>the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
>Material---titanium?
>-
>Thanks.
>-
>Kurt
>{:{

[user]

Maybe he is talking about the "turkey feathers" on a F110-GE-400 or
the TF-30's on the Tomcat? Either way his message don't make sense!
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:00:31 -0800, "Larry"
> wrote:

>>Some guy thought he knew what he was talking about when he spouted:
>>"Don't know how they're made but the tail feathers are used to form the
>>variable geometry exhaust nozzle. They close down or open up to control
>>the jet exhaust and hence thrust.
>LMAO! Nope- not even close.
>
>Prowlers and Intruders (all flavors of the A-6 family) just got a little
>bend in the exhaust- nothing more.
>
>Thanks for the chuckle! :-)

[Larry]

<snip> but modified to try and eliminate the "chugs", . .
That brings back MANY memories- We spent LOTS of nights out there on the
high-power line trying to duplicate that chug. Watchin the trim box, blow
out the PT-2 line, watch those pressures, trying to concentrate while
FREEZIN our asses off!

We called it "jam accell"- creep the throttle up and SLAM it to military,
slam it back down, then repeat about 250 times. Nope, were not going to
"A799" this one!

The high-power line was WAY out there between the runways at Whidbey.
MidRats never tasted so good after spending a few hours out on high-power!

Cold, dark, wet. The "Rock" was one of those places you either loved, or
hated.

Lots of memories.

Thanks, I *almost* forgot about that. Those were pretty good times-
definitely worth revisiting.


--
Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)




"user" > wrote in message
...
> Prowler Motors are mostly J52-408Bravo's now. Same thrust as the
> 408A's (10,400 - 11,200 lbs per motor) but modified to try and
> eliminate the "chugs", (didn't work, the compressor still stalls under
> the right conditions), also have new 3 1/2 bearings and a reinforced
> or beefed up compressor casing.
>
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:27:07 -0500 (EST), (Kurt
> {:{) wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >-
> >I was to an air show awhile back. I was inspecting a Navy A6 Intruder. I
> >caught the exhaust end of the tail pipe and noticed a circumference of
> >mesh "feathers" on the inner ID, that honestly looked like dragonfly
> >wings, gossamer in texture. I wonder what the function of this is, what
> >the material is, and how is it produced? A stamping process is a guess.
> >Material---titanium?
> >-
> >Thanks.
> >-
> >Kurt
> >{:{
>

[user]

Hey Larry,
I'm kinda new in here and just beginning to learn the ropes. Very cool
group! The chugs were a huge annoyance, and about 2 years ago, the
wing came up with a standard procedure for troubleshooting the
compressor stall problem. Of course you had to use the trim box and
the borescope. You can relate to this:. It was a typical Naval
Aviation Maintenance evolution to have my mechs walk up and down the
flight line on a cold friday night begging, borrowing and stealing a
working power supply from one squadron and a power cord from another
and a working optical lens from another etc.to piecemeal together a
good borescope. It was a real pain in the ass. And there were only 13
trim boxes for 15 squadrons, ours was loaned out to a deployed
squadron so we had to borrow that too. Im sure you'll agree; the chug
problems were a minor annoyance compared to the 3 1/2 bearing fiasco
that started 2 years ago! (by the way, the Rock is my home and I love
it there, going back to Prowlers next year after I finish my sentence
in the desert here in Cali)

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:26:29 -0800, "Larry"
> wrote:

><snip> but modified to try and eliminate the "chugs", . .
>That brings back MANY memories- We spent LOTS of nights out there on the
>high-power line trying to duplicate that chug. Watchin the trim box, blow
>out the PT-2 line, watch those pressures, trying to concentrate while
>FREEZIN our asses off!
>
>We called it "jam accell"- creep the throttle up and SLAM it to military,
>slam it back down, then repeat about 250 times. Nope, were not going to
>"A799" this one!
>
>The high-power line was WAY out there between the runways at Whidbey.
>MidRats never tasted so good after spending a few hours out on high-power!
>
>Cold, dark, wet. The "Rock" was one of those places you either loved, or
>hated.
>
>Lots of memories.
>
>Thanks, I *almost* forgot about that. Those were pretty good times-
>definitely worth revisiting.