thermal detector?

[Robin]

I've imagined that birds detect thermals in part with superior vision.
They can see the little bits of stuff in the air that show motion. Now
it looks like America's Cup sailors will be lighting up the little
bits with lasers.
http://www.catchthewindinc.com/

[Bob]

On Feb 5, 5:57*am, Robin > wrote:
> I've imagined that birds detect thermals in part with superior vision.
> They can see the little bits of stuff in the air that show motion. Now
> it looks like America's Cup sailors will be lighting up the little
> bits with lasers.http://www.catchthewindinc.com/

There was a fascinating presentation at the SSA convention that showed
where we are now with laser thermal detecting (lidar). Thermals were
shown very nicely in some of the photos presented. The machinery is
still a bit bulky and overly consumptive of energy for use in gliders,
but a hint of the future was seen.

[[email protected][_2_]]

Install one in a powered plane and have it fly out on course a bit and
send recommendations back. I know, very unsporting according to the
current way of doing things, but it would be interesting to see what
kinds of speeds could be obtained by enhancing thermal detection.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Feb 5, 8:10*am, " >
wrote:
> Install one in a powered plane and have it fly out on course a bit and
> send recommendations back. *I know, very unsporting according to the
> current way of doing things, but it would be interesting to see what
> kinds of speeds could be obtained by enhancing thermal detection.

or better yet some sort of wireless link between the powered plane and
a display in the glider.

[bildan]

On Feb 5, 5:57*am, Robin > wrote:
> I've imagined that birds detect thermals in part with superior vision.
> They can see the little bits of stuff in the air that show motion. Now
> it looks like America's Cup sailors will be lighting up the little
> bits with lasers.http://www.catchthewindinc.com/

Thermals are so dynamic that detecting them beyond a 1000 meters or so
won't be terribly useful. They'll just dissipate before you can get
there. You can play this game in Condor Competition Flight Simulator
but setting the thermal visibility to various ranges. Heading off for
a thermal in the distance doesn't work.

OTOH, detecting them at just hundred meters would be very useful.
Just a 3 second warning that you are about to hit a strong thermal
would make "dolphin flying" work far better than it does. It might
reduce thermalling time from 20% to 10% in a high performance
glider.

Knowing that a strong core is just a hundred meters to the west when
you're struggling with a half knot thermal would be fantastic.

Two technologies suggest themselves - millimeter radar-on-a-chip and
LIDAR. Both are getting smaller and less power hungry by the day.

[Uncle Fuzzy]

> Thermals are so dynamic that detecting them beyond a 1000 meters or so
> won't be terribly useful. *They'll just dissipate before you can get
> there. *You can play this game in Condor Competition Flight Simulator
> but setting the thermal visibility to various ranges. *Heading off for
> a thermal in the distance doesn't work.
>
??? 1000 meters is less than a minute away. I haven't flown many
places, but the thermals in the desert southwest hang around long
enough that a kilometer range would be quite useful. I think longer
would be better.

[bildan]

On Feb 5, 8:40*am, Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:
> > Thermals are so dynamic that detecting them beyond a 1000 meters or so
> > won't be terribly useful. *They'll just dissipate before you can get
> > there. *You can play this game in Condor Competition Flight Simulator
> > but setting the thermal visibility to various ranges. *Heading off for
> > a thermal in the distance doesn't work.
>
> ??? 1000 meters is less than a minute away. *I haven't flown many
> places, but the thermals in the desert southwest hang around long
> enough that a kilometer range would be quite useful. *I think longer
> would be better.

Just my clumsy way of saying that the biggest benefits of thermal
detection will be at shortest ranges. Long range detection would show
hot spots where thermals are popping consistently but not the actual
thermal you will find when you get there.

As I say, go play with Condor. Set the thermal to be visible but set
the range to the minimum. You'll see what I mean.

[Robin]

On Feb 5, 8:24*am, Bob > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 5:57*am, Robin > wrote:
>
> > I've imagined that birds detect thermals in part with superior vision.
> > They can see the little bits of stuff in the air that show motion. Now
> > it looks like America's Cup sailors will be lighting up the little
> > bits with lasers.http://www.catchthewindinc.com/
>
> There was a fascinating presentation at the SSA convention that showed
> where we are now with laser thermal detecting (lidar). *Thermals were
> shown very nicely in some of the photos presented. *The machinery is
> still a bit bulky and overly consumptive of energy for use in gliders,
> but a hint of the future was seen.

This device is handheld like binoculars, so I guess it's self-
contained, but probably limited in the number of shots. The good news
is that it costs only $149,500.

[5Z]

On Feb 5, 8:12*am, bildan > wrote:
> Just my clumsy way of saying that the biggest benefits of thermal
> detection will be at shortest ranges. *Long range detection would show
> hot spots where thermals are popping consistently but not the actual
> thermal you will find when you get there.

Hmm...

On MANY occasions, I've spotted a dust devil a few miles ahead, and
while keeping it in sight the whole time (many minutes), I manage to
connect and climb away. It's usually best to arrive within a few
thousand feet as it's easier to figure out where to hit it.

But I agree that a range of a kilometer or so would be most useful for
dolphin flying.

-Tom

[bildan]

On Feb 6, 2:05*pm, 5Z > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 8:12*am, bildan > wrote:
>
> > Just my clumsy way of saying that the biggest benefits of thermal
> > detection will be at shortest ranges. *Long range detection would show
> > hot spots where thermals are popping consistently but not the actual
> > thermal you will find when you get there.
>
> Hmm...
>
> On MANY occasions, I've spotted a dust devil a few miles ahead, and
> while keeping it in sight the whole time (many minutes), I manage to
> connect and climb away. *It's usually best to arrive within a few
> thousand feet as it's easier to figure out where to hit it.
>
> But I agree that a range of a kilometer or so would be most useful for
> dolphin flying.
>
> -Tom

Well, Tom, there's one certain thing about thermals - there's all
kinds of them. Somewhere in the world there's probably a thermal that
lasts for hours. Most thermals last only a few minutes.

I'd take a range of 100 meters and bet that's good enough for a 20%
improvement in XC speed. I'd have to think about whether extending
that range to 1000 meters would do as much.

BTW, what's the deal with your '26's water pump?