Cirrus collides with Glider/Towplane

[Jody]

This doesn't look good for our sport. It seems that the Cirrus hit
the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
ballistic chute on the Cirrus. The glider released and landed
safely. But guess where the blame will lay....
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glider_small_plane.html

This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
transponders....

[BT[_3_]]

A transponder in the glider would not have averted this accident.. the news
media is taking the opportunity to again report inaccurate or half the
information.

The glider was on tow, within apx 200ft of his tow plane, The Cirrus TIS
system if used would not have 200ft accuracy.

Sad news for the tow pilot, and the Cirrus pilots.


"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> This doesn't look good for our sport. It seems that the Cirrus hit
> the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
> ballistic chute on the Cirrus. The glider released and landed
> safely. But guess where the blame will lay....
> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glider_small_plane.html
>
> This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
> transponders....

[Jody]

On Feb 6, 5:59*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> A transponder in the glider would not have averted this accident.. the news
> media is taking the opportunity to again report inaccurate or half the
> information.
>
> The glider was on tow, within apx 200ft of his tow plane, The Cirrus TIS
> system if used would not have 200ft accuracy.
>
> Sad news for the tow pilot, and the Cirrus pilots.
>
> "Jody" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > This doesn't look good for our sport. *It seems that the Cirrus hit
> > the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
> > ballistic chute on the Cirrus. *The glider released and landed
> > safely. *But guess where the blame will lay....
> >http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glid...
>
> > This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
> > transponders....

Would a transponder in the towplane have made any difference? What
class airspace would this have occured in?

[BT[_3_]]

Without knowing the altitude, it is difficult to determine the class of
airspace. The class of airspace would make no difference as both were
allowed in the airspace.

More than likely there was a transponder in the tow plane. I will surmise
that the tow plane would not receive information from the Cirrus
transponder.
Depending on ATC radar coverage, the Cirrus being of modern avionics, might
might might have had information from the tow planes transponder.
But again, that depends on ATC radar coverage for TIS reporting.

VFR (VMC) condition prevailed. The Cirrus pilot should have yielded the
right of way to the tow operation, regardless of transponder information.


"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> On Feb 6, 5:59 pm, "BT" > wrote:
>> A transponder in the glider would not have averted this accident.. the
>> news
>> media is taking the opportunity to again report inaccurate or half the
>> information.
>>
>> The glider was on tow, within apx 200ft of his tow plane, The Cirrus TIS
>> system if used would not have 200ft accuracy.
>>
>> Sad news for the tow pilot, and the Cirrus pilots.
>>
>> "Jody" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > This doesn't look good for our sport. It seems that the Cirrus hit
>> > the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
>> > ballistic chute on the Cirrus. The glider released and landed
>> > safely. But guess where the blame will lay....
>> >http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glid...
>>
>> > This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
>> > transponders....
>
> Would a transponder in the towplane have made any difference? What
> class airspace would this have occured in?

[John Smith]

> news media is taking the opportunity to again report inaccurate or half
> the information.

"In order to generate speed and lift, the pilot must be skillful enough
to fly the glider at angles up and down and side to side so the glider
gains enough speed to remain aloft."

Unfortunately the accident is too sad to be able to laugh at this piece
of journalism.

[bildan]

On Feb 6, 4:53*pm, Jody > wrote:
> This doesn't look good for our sport. *It seems that the Cirrus hit
> the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
> ballistic chute on the Cirrus. *The glider released and landed
> safely. *But guess where the blame will lay....http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glid...
>
> This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
> transponders....

A tweet from another tow pilot who saw the accident said the SR-22 hit
the Pawnee, not the tow rope. One would expect the tug's weak link to
fail protecting the tug if the SR-22 had just hit the rope.

It appears the collision was in the standard north mountain departure
corridor for aero tows. Boulder has a lot of noise sensitive areas
where tugs can't go so tow routes are very standardized. Local pilots
should be aware of these corridors.

There is a lot of transient VFR traffic along the foothills of the
Rockies. Pilots want to see the mountains without acutally flying
over them - or flying high enough to need oxygen. There's also a
class C airport (BJC) that tends to push north-south VFR traffic into
a narrow corridor that passes over Boulder.

About 15 years ago a member of a transiting RV-4 formation flight hit
a Grob 103 on final approach. The G103 landed safely with 10 feet of
wing missing. The RV-4 pilot died.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Feb 6, 4:11*pm, "BT" > wrote:
> Without knowing the altitude, it is difficult to determine the class of
> airspace. The class of airspace would make no difference as both were
> allowed in the airspace.
>
> More than likely there was a transponder in the tow plane. I will surmise
> that the tow plane would not receive information from the Cirrus
> transponder.
> Depending on ATC radar coverage, the Cirrus being of modern avionics, might
> might might have had information from the tow planes transponder.
> But again, that depends on ATC radar coverage for TIS reporting.
>
> VFR (VMC) condition prevailed. The Cirrus pilot should have yielded the
> right of way to the tow operation, regardless of transponder information.
>
[snip]

Can we hold off on speculation like this. Compounding what I suspect
are guesses about what equipment the aircraft might have had you go on
to state things about TIS-S, just one possible traffic awareness
system. You don't know if the Cirrus had a Mode-S TIS capable
transponder and whether that was connected to a TIS capable display?
(And was all that turned on?) If and only then does TIS transmission
from a Mode-S terminal radar become relevant for traffic display in
the Cirrus. Any of the aircraft involved might have had Mode C or
Mode S transponders, yes likely the Cirrus had one. Any of the
aircraft could also have had PCAS, the Cirrus may have had one of the
newer active traffic systems, none of those systems require Mode-S TIS
data. I'm just trying to point out there are a large number of
possibilities, I personally have no interest in guessing, or actually
having the conversation at all right now.

Darryl

[XXL]

FLARM in all three aircraft could have helped prevent the accident.
Not sure if everyone knows about flarm, but it's in use in many
European countries and I have been saved by it many times. However,
any collision-avoidance instruments are no excuse for the rule of "See
and Avoid"!!!

My condolences to all involved.

Roderick

[tdukerich]

This "article" is typical web garbage. It's too bad this web site does not
have their disclaimer more predominately shown -



"Associated Content ("AC") does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of
any articles, videos or other posted information on the AC Website
(collectively, "AC Content"). All AC Content is provided by AC Contributors
in the AC community, like you. None of the content on AC is written, or
edited by AC employees. You agree that any use you make of such AC Content
is at your own risk and that AC is not responsible for any losses resulting
from your reliance on any AC Content on the AC Website. "



"Jody" > wrote in message
...
> This doesn't look good for our sport. It seems that the Cirrus hit
> the towline and the towplane and Cirrus went down despite the
> ballistic chute on the Cirrus. The glider released and landed
> safely. But guess where the blame will lay....
> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2675083/three_dead_when_glider_small_plane.html
>
> This may be the last straw for gliders having mandatory
> transponders....
>

[Mike Schumann]

On 2/6/2010 9:33 PM, XXL wrote:
> FLARM in all three aircraft could have helped prevent the accident.
> Not sure if everyone knows about flarm, but it's in use in many
> European countries and I have been saved by it many times. However,
> any collision-avoidance instruments are no excuse for the rule of "See
> and Avoid"!!!
>
> My condolences to all involved.
>
> Roderick
FLARM is of no use in the US. What we desperately need are low cost
ADS-B transceivers in the same price range as the European FLARM units.
The units that MITRE has flying fit this bill. The only obstacle is
the lack of FAA certification standards for this kind of low cost device
which prevents its commercialization.

--
Mike Schumann