Shipping glider from Germany to USA

[Dan[_6_]]

I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a
bit about the ins and outs of the process.
I'd like to know what the typical costs are and how long it takes.
Brokers? do I need one or are they really worth using?

Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
(currently flying) in Experimental category in US?

Thank in advance,
Dan

[Peter[_1_]]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:39:21 -0800, Dan wrote:

> I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a bit
> about the ins and outs of the process. I'd like to know what the typical
> costs are and how long it takes. Brokers? do I need one or are they
> really worth using?
>
> Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
> (currently flying) in Experimental category in US?
>
> Thank in advance,
> Dan

I just got a random quote for a 40ft container from San Franciso (USA) to
Newcastle(UK) (Door to Door), and it came in around $6000, I'm fairly
certain that a conventional Cobra type single seater trailer will fit
without (any)major mods with lots of spare room. I have not looked
seriously at this but took advantage of one of those sites that sends a
request for a shipping quote to multiple vendors... if you can deal with
the spamming you'll get from them all touting their business its easy to
get quotes and they all seem very keen...I'm sure the price can be
negotiated down.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Feb 18, 9:32*pm, Peter > wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:39:21 -0800, Dan wrote:
> > I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a bit
> > about the ins and outs of the process. I'd like to know what the typical
> > costs are and how long it takes. Brokers? *do I need one or are they
> > really worth using?
>
> > Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
> > (currently flying) in Experimental category in US?
>
> > Thank in advance,
> > Dan
>
> I just got a random quote for a 40ft container from San Franciso (USA) to
> Newcastle(UK) (Door to Door), and it came in around $6000, I'm fairly
> certain that a conventional Cobra type single seater trailer will fit
> without (any)major mods with lots of spare room. I have not looked
> seriously at this but took advantage of one of those sites that sends a
> request for a shipping quote to multiple vendors... if you can deal with
> the spamming you'll get from them all touting their business its easy to
> get quotes and they all seem very keen...I'm sure the price can be
> negotiated down.

Why suggest a container? Most gliders travel from Europe to the USA in
their trailers on a roll-on roll-off ship. Sometimes shipping in a
container make sense if you have multiple gliders or other equipment
with it. Single trailer roll-on roll off should be around $2k (very
roughly, depending on where you are going, I have not looked). I think
you will find useful comments in the r.a.s archive on shipping glider
trailers to the USA.

Darryl

[soarpilot]

On Feb 19, 3:05*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 9:32*pm, Peter > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:39:21 -0800, Dan wrote:
> > > I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a bit
> > > about the ins and outs of the process. I'd like to know what the typical
> > > costs are and how long it takes. Brokers? *do I need one or are they
> > > really worth using?
>
> > > Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
> > > (currently flying) in Experimental category in US?
>
> > > Thank in advance,
> > > Dan
>
> > I just got a random quote for a 40ft container from San Franciso (USA) to
> > Newcastle(UK) (Door to Door), and it came in around $6000, I'm fairly
> > certain that a conventional Cobra type single seater trailer will fit
> > without (any)major mods with lots of spare room. I have not looked
> > seriously at this but took advantage of one of those sites that sends a
> > request for a shipping quote to multiple vendors... if you can deal with
> > the spamming you'll get from them all touting their business its easy to
> > get quotes and they all seem very keen...I'm sure the price can be
> > negotiated down.
>
> Why suggest a container? Most gliders travel from Europe to the USA in
> their trailers on a roll-on roll-off ship. Sometimes shipping in a
> container make sense if you have multiple gliders or other equipment
> with it. Single trailer roll-on roll off should be around $2k (very
> roughly, depending on where you are going, I have not looked). I think
> you will find useful comments in the r.a.s archive on shipping glider
> trailers to the USA.
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You can do it without a broker, there is no law requiring the use of
such although the typical clerk at customs will make you feel you
must. Ask for a manager when you get the broker requirement stated to
you. Make sure your paperwork is meticulous, in order, and you
understand it. The customs manager will be appreciative of this and
very helpful in getting you through if he or she sees you have done
your work.

- I did Roll On - Roll Off last year, UK to US, NJ for about 2300 USD.
Wallenius-Wilhelmsen, they ship from Germany as well. The plane and
trailer came over with a load of new BMWs.
- If the glider is in an enclosed trailer, why in the world would you
pay lofty container fees? If you ship RoRo, make sure your
measurements are correct for the trailer size. Include the trailer
tongue in the length!! Also, have the seller send you pictures of the
trailer, particularly pictures of the trailer's serial number and any
registration numbers, model, etc. It makes customs work lots easier
with pictures. Also, sailplanes and trailers DO NOT incur import
taxes.
- Make sure you get the US Dept of Transportation paperwork done and
you understand how to get the trailer in the US. This surprisingly is
the more difficult part of the process. If the trailer is greater
than 25 years old, it makes things much more simple on the DOT
required forms and processes. It must have a Mfg. DOT letter of
conformity if newer than 25 years old. This has to be a letter from
the manufacturer. One can usually come up with this type letter given
enough reserach and creativity .........
- I imported a Grob Astir CS and had it certificated Experimental.
At first the DSBO told me I could not "willy-nilly" register
Experimental just cause I wanted to. The Grob is type certificated in
the US but I had failed to understand I needed an Export C of A to
register it here as Type Certified. Surprisingly, for no stated
reason, the DSBO allowed me to register the bird experimental. If it
is type certified, just get the Export C of A done and register it
typed here. If not, Experimental airworthiness can be done.
- You can register the plane and get the N-number as it is actually
in transit. Get the bill of sale forwarded to you. Have an N number
reserved, and send in the registration asap. This way, you can have
the airworthiness done as soon as you get off the pier and show the N
number to customs.
- There is a very valuabale web link to use as a guideline for this
process:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/importing-usa.html. There is a separate
word document for both the saiplane and the trailer. I used it, was
meticulous in my work and had the entire process at customs done in
about an hour, pier delivery less than an hour. REMEMBER ABOUT THE
EXPORT C OF A. It was the one thing this guide did not cover well.
Oh yeah, don't forget to bring wiring materials to rewire your trailer
lights. Your state will be the driving factor in trailer tags, etc.

I am lucky to have done this process, for I feel I saved almost fifty
percent in my purchase price of a 102 compared to what they go for
here in the states- even after absorbing shipping costs in the deal.
the GBP was sucking wind to the USD then, don't know what it looks
like now. It all was VERY WELL worth it to me and my frugality.
Sweat equity, what a glorious thing! Good luck with your venture.

[Peter[_1_]]

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:05:54 -0800, Darryl Ramm wrote:

> On Feb 18, 9:32Â*pm, Peter > wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:39:21 -0800, Dan wrote:
>> > I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a
>> > bit about the ins and outs of the process. I'd like to know what the
>> > typical costs are and how long it takes. Brokers? Â*do I need one or
>> > are they really worth using?
>>
>> > Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
>> > (currently flying) in Experimental category in US?
>>
>> > Thank in advance,
>> > Dan
>>
>> I just got a random quote for a 40ft container from San Franciso (USA)
>> to Newcastle(UK) (Door to Door), and it came in around $6000, I'm
>> fairly certain that a conventional Cobra type single seater trailer
>> will fit without (any)major mods with lots of spare room. I have not
>> looked seriously at this but took advantage of one of those sites that
>> sends a request for a shipping quote to multiple vendors... if you can
>> deal with the spamming you'll get from them all touting their business
>> its easy to get quotes and they all seem very keen...I'm sure the price
>> can be negotiated down.
>
> Why suggest a container? Most gliders travel from Europe to the USA in
> their trailers on a roll-on roll-off ship. Sometimes shipping in a
> container make sense if you have multiple gliders or other equipment
> with it. Single trailer roll-on roll off should be around $2k (very
> roughly, depending on where you are going, I have not looked). I think
> you will find useful comments in the r.a.s archive on shipping glider
> trailers to the USA.
>
> Darryl

I was considering moving countries again, and the glider was an
afterthought... a 20ft container was around $4500, and a 40ft one was
$6000 with plenty of room for my stuff as well as a glider... I have not
deeply explored the options... it was just something I looked at on a
whim recently... its just a current data point that might be useful to
others... Ro-Ro sounds better for the glider alone, but thats not what i
was doing.

[Papa3]

On Feb 19, 8:21*am, soarpilot > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 3:05*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 18, 9:32*pm, Peter > wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:39:21 -0800, Dan wrote:
> > > > I'm considering buying a glider in Germany and I've read and heard a bit
> > > > about the ins and outs of the process. I'd like to know what the typical
> > > > costs are and how long it takes. Brokers? *do I need one or are they
> > > > really worth using?
>
> > > > Also anyone have experience with licensing an used ex German glider
> > > > (currently flying) in Experimental category in US?
>
> > > > Thank in advance,
> > > > Dan
>
> > > I just got a random quote for a 40ft container from San Franciso (USA) to
> > > Newcastle(UK) (Door to Door), and it came in around $6000, I'm fairly
> > > certain that a conventional Cobra type single seater trailer will fit
> > > without (any)major mods with lots of spare room. I have not looked
> > > seriously at this but took advantage of one of those sites that sends a
> > > request for a shipping quote to multiple vendors... if you can deal with
> > > the spamming you'll get from them all touting their business its easy to
> > > get quotes and they all seem very keen...I'm sure the price can be
> > > negotiated down.
>
> > Why suggest a container? Most gliders travel from Europe to the USA in
> > their trailers on a roll-on roll-off ship. Sometimes shipping in a
> > container make sense if you have multiple gliders or other equipment
> > with it. Single trailer roll-on roll off should be around $2k (very
> > roughly, depending on where you are going, I have not looked). I think
> > you will find useful comments in the r.a.s archive on shipping glider
> > trailers to the USA.
>
> > Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You can do it without a broker, there is no law requiring the use of
> such although the typical clerk at customs will make you feel you
> must. *Ask for a manager when you get the broker requirement stated to
> you. *Make sure your paperwork is meticulous, in order, and you
> understand it. *The customs manager will be appreciative of this and
> very helpful in getting you through if he or she sees you have done
> your work.
>
> - I did Roll On - Roll Off last year, UK to US, NJ for about 2300 USD.
> Wallenius-Wilhelmsen, they ship from Germany as well. *The plane and
> trailer came over with a load of new BMWs.
> - If the glider is in an enclosed trailer, why in the world would you
> pay lofty container fees? *If you ship RoRo, make sure your
> measurements are correct for the trailer size. *Include the trailer
> tongue in the length!! *Also, have the seller send you pictures of the
> trailer, particularly pictures of the trailer's serial number and any
> registration numbers, model, etc. *It makes customs work lots easier
> with pictures. *Also, sailplanes and trailers DO NOT incur import
> taxes.
> - Make sure you get the US Dept of Transportation paperwork done and
> you understand how to get the trailer in the US. *This surprisingly is
> the more difficult part of the process. *If the trailer is greater
> than 25 years old, it makes things much more simple on the DOT
> required forms and processes. *It must have a Mfg. DOT letter of
> conformity if newer than 25 years old. *This has to be a letter from
> the manufacturer. *One can usually come up with this type letter given
> enough reserach and creativity .........
> - *I imported a Grob Astir CS and had it certificated Experimental.
> At first the DSBO told me I could not "willy-nilly" register
> Experimental just cause I wanted to. *The Grob is type certificated in
> the US but I had failed to understand I needed an Export C of A to
> register it here as Type Certified. *Surprisingly, for no stated
> reason, the DSBO allowed me to register the bird experimental. *If it
> is type certified, just get the Export C of A done and register it
> typed here. *If not, Experimental airworthiness can be done.
> - *You can register the plane and get the N-number as it is actually
> in transit. *Get the bill of sale forwarded to you. *Have an N number
> reserved, and send in the registration asap. *This way, you can have
> the airworthiness done as soon as you get off the pier and show the N
> number to customs.
> - There is a very valuabale web link to use as a guideline for this
> process:http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/importing-usa.html. There is a separate
> word document for both the saiplane and the trailer. I used it, was
> meticulous in my work and had the entire process at customs done in
> about an hour, pier delivery less than an hour. *REMEMBER ABOUT THE
> EXPORT C OF A. *It was the one thing this guide did not cover well.
> Oh yeah, don't forget to bring wiring materials to rewire your trailer
> lights. *Your state will be the driving factor in trailer tags, etc.
>
> I am lucky to have done this process, for I feel I saved almost fifty
> percent in my purchase price of a 102 compared to what they go for
> here in the states- even after absorbing shipping costs in the deal.
> the GBP was sucking wind to the USD then, don't know what it looks
> like now. *It all was VERY WELL worth it to me and my frugality.
> Sweat equity, what a glorious thing! *Good luck with your venture.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

FWIW, agree with all of the above except the point on the broker. It
really just depends on how you value your time. The broker I used was
a couple of hundered bucks at most, and the hours I would have spent
trying to wade through the regulations just wasn't worth it to me. I
do especially like the comment regarding the trailer that one can
"come up with a [DOT Letter] given enough research and
creativity..."

P3