Possible "deliberate" plane crash

[Ricky]

As our simulator captain has provided a link to, a plane crashed into
a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.

What I want to say about this is that nobody knows whether or not this
crash was "deliberate" or not and probably won't for a long time. To
say otherwise is simply jumping to conclusions. Yes, it was a
government building, yes, the pilot had some possible mental
disability, but that could just as easily mean that he couldn't
control the plane just as it could mean his crash was deliberate.

Within a few hours the local & national media has already reported
several errors. Media & accuracy in aviation do not mix.

General aviation has weathered much more intense storms than this. I
do not agree that it could be a "disaster for general aviation", and
what would you care, anyway, MX? You don't fly, so any GA disaster
wouldn't affect you in the least.

"Damage control"? Indeed. Why don't you teach us all about that?

Ricky

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Ricky schreef:
> Media & accuracy in aviation do not mix.

That is certainly true, but I am beginning to suspect that this is
because (real world) pilots live to a higher degree of accuracy than
"the general public". They have to, and are trained to - at least I was,
with a certain degree of success, though not perfectly, alas.

FWIW we had a grave train collision down here in Belgium recently, 18
killed, the media reports weren't very impressive either. We should not
forget the media are commercial entities, accuracy might be a factor
them but it certainly doesn't precede. Sales are what counts.

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Ricky schreef:
> As our simulator captain has provided a link to, a plane crashed into
> a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.

And gain FWIW: inside rumours from undisclosable sources rumour that the
below crash WAS deliberate, tentative of insurance fraud. Only the guy
hadn't counted on the wreckage being lifted from the - hm - turtles and
turtoises atmosphere, neither on the FADEC's remaining legible.

http://www.mobilit.fgov.be/data/aero/accidents/AA-9-1.pdf
to be read with all possible reserve both towards the authors and myself.

[Dallas]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:

> General aviation has weathered much more intense storms than this.

Shortly after 9/11 I recall some kid flying a Cessna into a building in
Florida (?). GA lived through that.


--
Dallas

[Jim Logajan]

jan olieslagers > wrote:
> We should not
> forget the media are commercial entities, accuracy might be a factor
> them but it certainly doesn't precede. Sales are what counts.

"If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the
newspaper, you're mis-informed." -- Mark Twain

"I am personally acquainted with hundreds of journalists, and the opinion
of the majority of them would not be worth tuppence in private, but when
they speak in print it is the newspaper that is talking (the pygmy scribe
is not visible) and then their utterances shake the community like the
thunders of prophecy." -- Mark Twain

More of Twain's quotes on newspapers:

http://www.twainquotes.com/Newspaper.html

[Dallas]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:

> a plane crashed into
> a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.

Interesting note... the guy's name is Joseph Andrew Stack.

The FAA registry lists no one by that name with a certificate. It will be
interesting to see if he was a student pilot or if he just figured out how
to fly today.

--
Dallas

[John E. Carty]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:
>
>> a plane crashed into
>> a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.
>
> Interesting note... the guy's name is Joseph Andrew Stack.
>
> The FAA registry lists no one by that name with a certificate.

Just because it isn't publicly listed in the registry doesn't mean he
doesn't hold a valid certificate :-)


> It will be
> interesting to see if he was a student pilot or if he just figured out how
> to fly today.
>
> --
> Dallas

[vaughn[_2_]]

"jan olieslagers" > wrote in message
...

Thanks to this creep, the TSA will now consider all pilots potential terrorists
and all small airplanes potential WMD.

This is really a bad day for all of us! Overspoken? sure! ...but
unfortunately not totally so. The sad truth is that we will all pay for this
guy's insanity.

[Dallas]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:05:39 -0600, John E. Carty wrote:

> Just because it isn't publicly listed in the registry doesn't mean he
> doesn't hold a valid certificate :-)

Really?... I didn't know the option to be excluded from the registry
existed.

I did hear a report through the grapevine (DH) that the guy was a student.

--
Dallas

[Mxsmanic]

John E. Carty writes:

> Just because it isn't publicly listed in the registry doesn't mean he
> doesn't hold a valid certificate :-)

Yes, it does. You can have certain data hidden in the registry, but the
registry itself is public data--otherwise it wouldn't be possible to verify
whether or not someone actually does hold an airman certificate.

You can easily look up John Travolta, Arnold Palmer, or Angelina Jolie, for
example, although you might not be able to find their home addresses.

[Brian Whatcott]

Ricky wrote:
> As our simulator captain has provided a link to, a plane crashed into
> a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.
>
> What I want to say about this is that nobody knows whether or not this
> crash was "deliberate" or not and probably won't for a long time./snip/

> "Damage control"? Indeed. Why don't you teach us all about that?
>
> Ricky
>

Apart from the customary JesusIsBetter sneer for the sim player, I can
also correct his confident denial: yes, the software engineer was in a
feud with the IRS about some earnings. Yes he set fire to his home. (Did
they threaten to garnish it? Dunno) Yes he left a suicide note on his
web site, offering vengeance, and yes he wanted to take a few IRS folks
with him.
In this he was unsuccessful - only one fatality other than his was
indicated in current newscasts.

Brian W

[Ricky]

On Feb 19, 1:46*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:

> John E. Carty writes:
> > Just because it isn't publicly listed in the registry doesn't mean he
> > doesn't hold a valid certificate :-)
>
> Yes, it does. You can have certain data hidden in the registry, but the
> registry itself is public data--otherwise it wouldn't be possible to verify
> whether or not someone actually does hold an airman certificate.

mx...did you see the smiley after the word "certificate?" Hmm...what
do you think that might imply?

Ricky

[Robert M. Gary]

On Feb 18, 1:51*pm, Dallas > wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ricky wrote:
> > a plane crashed into
> > a building just an hour south of my home in Waco, TX.
>
> Interesting note... the guy's name is Joseph Andrew Stack.
>
> The FAA registry lists no one by that name with a certificate. *It will be
> interesting to see if he was a student pilot or if he just figured out how
> to fly today.

He was a student. I don't think he had even soloed, or if he did it
was just his first solo. Its possible he never got his medical if he
wasn't solo. The FBO reported that he was not suppose to have access
to the keys but he told them he was pre-flighting before his CFI
arrived. His suicide has been used as an example of the harmlessness
of GA since he only broke a couple of windows. Unfortunately, this
recent guy did more damage.

-Robert

[Dallas]

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:47:29 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

> He was a student. I don't think he had even soloed,

The news media keeps calling him a pilot and referring to it as "his
airplane".

But hey, that's good... under those circumstances the whole event would be
pretty much impossible to prevent and the media has to move on to other
silly subject matter to discuss ad nauseum .


--
Dallas

[Robert M. Gary]

On Feb 19, 12:09*pm, Dallas > wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:47:29 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > He was a student. I don't think he had even soloed,
>
> The news media keeps calling him a pilot

Pilot as in the one who piloted the airplane. Some of the best pilots
I've ever seen never had a certificate.

-Robert

[Flaps_50!]

On Feb 20, 10:37*am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Feb 19, 12:09*pm, Dallas > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:47:29 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > > He was a student. I don't think he had even soloed,
>
> > The news media keeps calling him a pilot
>
> Pilot as in the one who piloted the airplane. Some of the best pilots
> I've ever seen never had a certificate.
>

Can you explain?

Cheers

[Robert Moore]

Dallas wrote
> Interesting note... the guy's name is Joseph Andrew Stack.
>
> The FAA registry lists no one by that name with a certificate. It
> will be interesting to see if he was a student pilot or if he just
> figured out how to fly today.

From the AP
Stack's medical certificate was current, dated May 2009. He was an
instrument rated pilot, able to fly single-engine and multiengine
airplanes, and no enforcement action had ever been taken against him.

Bob Moore

[Dallas]

On 20 Feb 2010 13:37:11 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

> Stack's medical certificate was current, dated May 2009. He was an
> instrument rated pilot, able to fly single-engine and multiengine
> airplanes, and no enforcement action had ever been taken against him.

So nobody's answered the question, is being listed in the registry
optional?

Apparently it is.

--
Dallas

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> So nobody's answered the question, is being listed in the registry
> optional?
>
> Apparently it is.

It's not optional. However, the SSN, certificate number, and date of birth of
pilots are not included in the public information available in the registry,
and pilots can request that their address information be hidden.

There would be little point to a registry that were not public. The whole idea
is to allow third parties to verify that a particular person is indeed a
licensed pilot.

I suspect that in this case the pilot may have been an unlicensed student
pilot (someone who had been taking instruction but had not obtained a student
pilot license yet), or his name in the database is different from the one
reported. There are quite a few pilots named Joe Stack.

[Mxsmanic]

Mxsmanic writes:

> I suspect that in this case the pilot may have been an unlicensed student
> pilot (someone who had been taking instruction but had not obtained a student
> pilot license yet), or his name in the database is different from the one
> reported. There are quite a few pilots named Joe Stack.

Apparently inactive airmen certificates are also omitted from the database. So
he might have had a license, but it might have been inactive.

[Dallas]

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:28:47 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

> Apparently inactive airmen certificates are also omitted from the database.

Not true.

My father, who died 31 years ago, is still on the registry. My mother who
died 17 years ago and hadn't flown since 1928 is still on the registry.



--
Dallas

[Mxsmanic]

Dallas writes:

> Not true.
>
> My father, who died 31 years ago, is still on the registry. My mother who
> died 17 years ago and hadn't flown since 1928 is still on the registry.

Maybe the FAA doesn't know that they are inactive. I'm not sure what they mean
by "inactive"--I was thinking perhaps not keeping a medical current, but if
your father and mother are still there, that must not be it.