NAVAIR's F/A-18 Program Celebrates 25 Years of Flight

[Otis Willie]

NAVAIR's F/A-18 Program Celebrates 25 Years of Flight

(EXCERPT) Story Number: NNS031125-01 Release Date: 11/25/2003 6:42:00
PM

From Naval Air Systems Command Public Affairs

PATUXENT RIVER, Md. (NNS) -- The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR)
F/A-18 program commemorated the first flight of the Hornet aircraft
flown 25 years ago Nov. 20. Alumni members of the "Hornets Nest"
gathered at NAVAIR Patuxent River for a day of memories and
celebration.

“The last 25 years of flight by F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets have
established an unmatched record of performance, survivability,
reliability, maintainability and affordability for the U.S. Navy,
Marine Corps, and our foreign partners,” said NAVAIR F/A-18 Program
Manager Capt. B.D. Gaddis. “The men and women who have designed,
developed, produced, enhanced, maintained and flown these remarkable
aircraft can be very proud. They have set the chinning bar pretty
high. But I'm convinced that the next 25 years will be even better."

Naval Aviation was forever changed 25 years ago when Jack Krings, test
pilot for then-McDonnell Douglas Corporation, had the honor of taking
the new fighter on a 50-minute flight from St. Louis o...

U.S. and friendly nation laws prohibit fully reproducing
copyrighted material. In abidance with our laws this report
cannot be provided in its entirety. However, you can read it
in full today, 30 Nov 2003, at the following URL. (COMBINE
the following lines into your web browser.) The
subject/content of this report is not necessarily the
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for your information and discussion.

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=10773

---------------------------
Otis Willie
Associate Librarian
The American War Library
http://www.americanwarlibrary.com

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 11/30/03 5:01 PM, in article ,
"Otis Willie" > wrote:

> NAVAIR's F/A-18 Program Celebrates 25 Years of Flight
>
> (EXCERPT) Story Number: NNS031125-01 Release Date: 11/25/2003 6:42:00
> PM
>
> From Naval Air Systems Command Public Affairs
>
> PATUXENT RIVER, Md. (NNS) -- The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR)
> F/A-18 program commemorated the first flight of the Hornet aircraft
> flown 25 years ago Nov. 20. Alumni members of the "Hornets Nest"
> gathered at NAVAIR Patuxent River for a day of memories and
> celebration.
>
> “The last 25 years of flight by F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets have
> established an unmatched record of performance, survivability,
> reliability, maintainability and affordability for the U.S. Navy,
> Marine Corps, and our foreign partners,” said NAVAIR F/A-18 Program
> Manager Capt. B.D. Gaddis. “The men and women who have designed,
> developed, produced, enhanced, maintained and flown these remarkable
> aircraft can be very proud. They have set the chinning bar pretty
> high. But I'm convinced that the next 25 years will be even better."
>
> Naval Aviation was forever changed 25 years ago when Jack Krings, test
> pilot for then-McDonnell Douglas Corporation, had the honor of taking
> the new fighter on a 50-minute flight from St. Louis o...
>

What is it about me and old airplanes? |:-)


> U.S. and friendly nation laws prohibit fully reproducing
> copyrighted material. In abidance with our laws this report
> cannot be provided in its entirety. However, you can read it
> in full today, 30 Nov 2003, at the following URL. (COMBINE
> the following lines into your web browser.) The
> subject/content of this report is not necessarily the
> viewpoint of the distributing Library. This report is provided
> for your information and discussion.
>
> http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=10773
>
> ---------------------------
> Otis Willie
> Associate Librarian
> The American War Library
> http://www.americanwarlibrary.com

[Mike Kanze]

Woody,

What is "old?"

1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose BuNo
adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere. In my
case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport. Just a bunch of aluminum held
together by a bazillion coats of paint. Tanker package still installed,
though.

2) When I went through VT-10 as a SNFO in 1969, the flight syllabus
consisted of several low-level visual nav hops about the south Alabama
countryside in the squadron's fleet of venerable C-45 / SNB "Bugsmashers."
The VT-10 CO had the following painted above the pax hatch on each of these
birds: "NFO Trainer - Built 194X," with the "X" variable indicating the
exact year of manufacture.

Oldest "Secret Navy Bomber" in his fleet was one built during the third
Roosevelt administration. All of these tired birds were older that the
students using them, and in many cases, the instructors teaching in them
too. The Skipper always made sure that this fact was explained to each
visiting Poo-Bah - especially anyone from Washington or having anything to
do with Naval appropriations.

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

"I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."

- Zsa Zsa Gabor


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/30/03 5:01 PM, in article
,
> "Otis Willie" > wrote:
>
> > NAVAIR's F/A-18 Program Celebrates 25 Years of Flight
> >
> > (EXCERPT) Story Number: NNS031125-01 Release Date: 11/25/2003 6:42:00
> > PM
> >
> > From Naval Air Systems Command Public Affairs
> >
> > PATUXENT RIVER, Md. (NNS) -- The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR)
> > F/A-18 program commemorated the first flight of the Hornet aircraft
> > flown 25 years ago Nov. 20. Alumni members of the "Hornets Nest"
> > gathered at NAVAIR Patuxent River for a day of memories and
> > celebration.
> >
> > "The last 25 years of flight by F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets have
> > established an unmatched record of performance, survivability,
> > reliability, maintainability and affordability for the U.S. Navy,
> > Marine Corps, and our foreign partners," said NAVAIR F/A-18 Program
> > Manager Capt. B.D. Gaddis. "The men and women who have designed,
> > developed, produced, enhanced, maintained and flown these remarkable
> > aircraft can be very proud. They have set the chinning bar pretty
> > high. But I'm convinced that the next 25 years will be even better."
> >
> > Naval Aviation was forever changed 25 years ago when Jack Krings, test
> > pilot for then-McDonnell Douglas Corporation, had the honor of taking
> > the new fighter on a 50-minute flight from St. Louis o...
> >
>
> What is it about me and old airplanes? |:-)
>
>
> > U.S. and friendly nation laws prohibit fully reproducing
> > copyrighted material. In abidance with our laws this report
> > cannot be provided in its entirety. However, you can read it
> > in full today, 30 Nov 2003, at the following URL. (COMBINE
> > the following lines into your web browser.) The
> > subject/content of this report is not necessarily the
> > viewpoint of the distributing Library. This report is provided
> > for your information and discussion.
> >
> > http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=10773
> >
> > ---------------------------
> > Otis Willie
> > Associate Librarian
> > The American War Library
> > http://www.americanwarlibrary.com
>

[John R Weiss]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote...

> What is "old?"

For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)

> 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose BuNo
> adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere. In my
> case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
> Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport

Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the Smithsonian Air &
Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!

[Mike Kanze]

John,

>For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)

Touché!

>Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the Smithsonian
Air & Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!

Since the designation "A-4C" was the pre-McNamara designation of A4D-2N, you
WERE in all likelihood flying an "oldie." IIRC, the A4D-2N first hit the
fleet in 1959 or 1960.

Not that the Smithsonian's bird necessarily was any "newer" - we would hope
yours still had usable wing life. <g>

(Going rhetorical now)
Which brings us - again - to the question, what is "old?" BuNo seniority?
Airframe hours expended? Declining utility / suitability for a particular
purpose? Increasing lack of spare parts / increasing cost of remaining
spares? Ad nauseum.

--
Mike Kanze

"I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."

- Zsa Zsa Gabor


"John R Weiss" > wrote in message
news:RnPyb.380900$HS4.3131487@attbi_s01...
> "Mike Kanze" > wrote...
>
> > What is "old?"
>
> For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)
>
> > 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose
BuNo
> > adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere.
In my
> > case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
> > Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport
>
> Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the Smithsonian
Air &
> Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!
>

[Mike Kanze]

>Since the designation "A-4C" was the pre-McNamara designation of A4D-2N

Should be "post-McNamara."

I apologize for responding to my own post.

--
Mike Kanze

"I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."

- Zsa Zsa Gabor


"Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
...
> John,
>
> >For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)
>
> Touché!
>
> >Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the
Smithsonian
> Air & Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!
>
> Since the designation "A-4C" was the pre-McNamara designation of A4D-2N,
you
> WERE in all likelihood flying an "oldie." IIRC, the A4D-2N first hit the
> fleet in 1959 or 1960.
>
> Not that the Smithsonian's bird necessarily was any "newer" - we would
hope
> yours still had usable wing life. <g>
>
> (Going rhetorical now)
> Which brings us - again - to the question, what is "old?" BuNo
seniority?
> Airframe hours expended? Declining utility / suitability for a particular
> purpose? Increasing lack of spare parts / increasing cost of remaining
> spares? Ad nauseum.
>
> --
> Mike Kanze
>
> "I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."
>
> - Zsa Zsa Gabor
>
>
> "John R Weiss" > wrote in message
> news:RnPyb.380900$HS4.3131487@attbi_s01...
> > "Mike Kanze" > wrote...
> >
> > > What is "old?"
> >
> > For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)
> >
> > > 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose
> BuNo
> > > adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere.
> In my
> > > case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of
the
> > > Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport
> >
> > Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the
Smithsonian
> Air &
> > Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!
> >
>
>

[George Shirley]

John R Weiss wrote:
> "Mike Kanze" > wrote...
>
>
>>What is "old?"
>
>
> For a pilot or an airplane? ;-)
>
>
>>1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose BuNo
>>adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere. In my
>>case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
>>Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport
>
>
> Well, when I was flying the A-4C in 1977 or so, the one in the Smithsonian Air &
> Space Museum in DC was newer than the one I was flying!
>

Shoot, you guys are babies. the transport aircraft I crewed on in
1958-1959 are goat carriers in Cattlegap, Third World. And both ships I
served on were scrapped in the mid-seventies. Now that's old. <BSEG>

George

[vincent p. norris]

>Which brings us - again - to the question, what is "old?"

Back in the early 1950s, I spent two years flying R5C-1s. That's the
airplane the Army Air Corps mistakenly called the C-46, and flew over
the Hump during WW II. Half of our squadron's airplanes were painted
blue, but where the blue paint had worn off, we could see Army olive
drab paint.

The Army wore them out, no longer wanted them, and I suppose the Navy
bought them at a yard sale and gave them to us Marines.

I think that's one definition of "old."

vince norris

[WaltBJ]

Back in 1979 we were waiting for one of the F4Es to get fixed so we
could go on up to Avon Park Range - the crewchiefs and I were sitting
under the wing in the shade away from the South Florida sun. one of
them looked at me and asked "Sir, when dod you get your wings?" I
answered "1954." A funny expression crossed his face and I asked "When
were you born?" He answered "1961."
Second 'old' feeling, about the same time. I was strapping into an F4E
in the same outfit (307TFS) and a staff sergeant was helping me with
them. I caught his name tag - 'Klix'. I asked "Is your dad's first
name Danny?" He replied, 'Yeah, and I used to play with your kids!"
His dad and I had flown 104s in the 319th FIS at Homestead AFB back in
1964-65 . . .
Walt BJ

[J]

You start suspecting your old when every aircraft you have flown is in the
boneyard or museum, and every carrier in the fleet was commissioned after
you got your wings. Heck there are only two remaining, that I ever landed
on.

When they are gone? I think I will just get drunk. Hell why wait.

Red Rider

[George Shirley]

J wrote:

> You start suspecting your old when every aircraft you have flown is in the
> boneyard or museum, and every carrier in the fleet was commissioned after
> you got your wings. Heck there are only two remaining, that I ever landed
> on.
>
> When they are gone? I think I will just get drunk. Hell why wait.
>
> Red Rider
>
>
Come on over Red, I got enough homemade wine to skunk us both. I
probably rode plane guard on your carriers if they were in the Atlantic.
Still, you gotta reckon it's better to be an old sailor than a dead one.

George

[Will Dossel]

(WaltBJ) wrote in message >...
> Back in 1979 we were waiting for one of the F4Es to get fixed so we
> could go on up to Avon Park Range - the crewchiefs and I were sitting
> under the wing in the shade away from the South Florida sun. one of
> them looked at me and asked "Sir, when dod you get your wings?" I
> answered "1954." A funny expression crossed his face and I asked "When
> were you born?" He answered "1961."
> Second 'old' feeling, about the same time. I was strapping into an F4E
> in the same outfit (307TFS) and a staff sergeant was helping me with
> them. I caught his name tag - 'Klix'. I asked "Is your dad's first
> name Danny?" He replied, 'Yeah, and I used to play with your kids!"
> His dad and I had flown 104s in the 319th FIS at Homestead AFB back in
> 1964-65 . . .
> Walt BJ

.... similar circumstances, CO (me) and XO were commenting on the
occasion of the 25th anniversary of the 1st landing on the moon (where
we were, etc.) when up piped our newest acquisition (ENS, 1 each,
nugget NFO) "Hey Skipper -- guess what, I wasn't even born then!" ...
long pause... (me) "OPS, I think we have our first volunteer for the
0200 launch..."

Will Dossel
Last of the Steeljaws (VAW-122)

[vincent p. norris]

>You start suspecting your old when every aircraft you have flown is in the
>boneyard or museum, and every carrier in the fleet was commissioned after
>you got your wings.

Or when you go to Oshkosh, wander down to the "Antiques" section, and
see all the airplanes you used to fly.

vince norris

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/1/03 1:05 PM, in article , "Mike
Kanze" > wrote:

> Woody,
>
> What is "old?"
>
> 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose BuNo
> adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere. In my
> case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
> Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport. Just a bunch of aluminum held
> together by a bazillion coats of paint. Tanker package still installed,
> though.
>
> 2) When I went through VT-10 as a SNFO in 1969, the flight syllabus
> consisted of several low-level visual nav hops about the south Alabama
> countryside in the squadron's fleet of venerable C-45 / SNB "Bugsmashers."
> The VT-10 CO had the following painted above the pax hatch on each of these
> birds: "NFO Trainer - Built 194X," with the "X" variable indicating the
> exact year of manufacture.
>
> Oldest "Secret Navy Bomber" in his fleet was one built during the third
> Roosevelt administration. All of these tired birds were older that the
> students using them, and in many cases, the instructors teaching in them
> too. The Skipper always made sure that this fact was explained to each
> visiting Poo-Bah - especially anyone from Washington or having anything to
> do with Naval appropriations.
>
> Owl sends.

Owl,

What a hoot! (No pun intended.) And no question... You'll always be older
than me. |:-) But I have some old airplanes too...

149484, a KA-6D, January 1990. The airframe was estimated to be 28 years
old back then. It was still older than me. I think it's a reef now. Got
lots of hops in the one on the stick in Grand Junction too. It used to be a
China Lake bird. Got time in several 149 BUNO A-6E's when I was a FRP in
VA-128. I'm sure we've got time in the same jets. Scary, huh.

You get the picture. The cycle repeats itself.

Now I read that the Hornet just turned 25? Struck me as ironic that I can't
get away from old jets (162 series BUNO's in Lot 8's now). Even weirder to
think I'm now flying them against guys who graduated college in 2000.
Parading my stories of night Intruder traps on LEXINGTON in front of them
wouldn't even be sport any more. Can't impress these kids because most of
them don't know anything smaller than KITTY HAWK class.

--Woody

[Pechs1]

Owl-<< 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels >><BR><BR>

Or all the squadrons you were in or ships you served on were decommisioned

VF-33, VF-151, VF-31, VF-101(F-4), VF-171, VX-4, VF-126, USS Forrestal,
Independence, Midway...

Not sure if VF-31(F-14) is gone or not...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Adam Fathauer]

> Owl,
>
> What a hoot! (No pun intended.) And no question... You'll always be older
> than me. |:-) But I have some old airplanes too...
>
> 149484, a KA-6D, January 1990. The airframe was estimated to be 28 years
> old back then. It was still older than me. I think it's a reef now. Got
> lots of hops in the one on the stick in Grand Junction too. It used to be a
> China Lake bird. Got time in several 149 BUNO A-6E's when I was a FRP in
> VA-128. I'm sure we've got time in the same jets. Scary, huh.

Spent quite a bit of time keeping that bird in the sky with VA-176
(never flew in one - just spent a good chunk of my life working on
them). Was one of my favorite birds - flew it's first check flight for
the Navy (per the log book) about two months before I was born.

[Jake Donovan]

Pechs,

You will be happy to know that Felix adorns the tails of F-14Ds

JD


"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Owl-<< 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels >><BR><BR>
>
> Or all the squadrons you were in or ships you served on were decommisioned
>
> VF-33, VF-151, VF-31, VF-101(F-4), VF-171, VX-4, VF-126, USS Forrestal,
> Independence, Midway...
>
> Not sure if VF-31(F-14) is gone or not...
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

[Pechs1]

Jake-<< You will be happy to know that Felix adorns the tails of F-14Ds
>><BR><BR>

That's good news...are they slated to get the 'Bug'??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Mike Kanze]

Woody,

>149484, a KA-6D, January 1990.

For what it's worth -

According to my A-6A/B/C NATOPS, at that time (1974) 149484 was "not in
fleet use" and not even a A, B or C. A number of its production-mates were
/ were being converted to EA-6As at the time, so it's possible that this one
was sitting around at Grumman, in mod to become queer or in reserve. BTW,
149484 was No. 18 off the A-6 production line at Grumman. At that time all
of the EA-6As were conversions from among the first ~90 straight As
produced.

The "seniormost" A-6 in my logbook is 149950 (No. 36 off the production
line), an AFC 200 A-6A at the time. Flew it first in 1972 as a FRBN in
VA-128, who then foisted it onto we Lizards for our 1973 cruise.

>Even weirder to think I'm now flying them against guys who graduated
college in 2000.

Curt Seth, an LCDR on AIRPAC staff is screening for command. He was a
little kid running around in his Dad Roy's yard on the Rock when Roy and I
were Lizards together. When the kids of your shipmates are screening for
(and getting) command, you tend to look in the mirror just a bit longer.

>Can't impress these kids because most of them don't know anything smaller
than KITTY HAWK class.

I have a slightly different take on this. My Dad, a Naval aviator from
1940 - 1965, and Mom attend Tailhook every year. He runs around the exhibit
area wearing a F-4U sweatshirt. It's a sure-fire conversation-starter. He
finds the "kids" as interested in that era of Naval aviation as he is in
what's currently happening with them.

One of the more poignant things at each year's Tailhook Reunion Luncheon are
the recognition awards for the old-timers, including "most straight-deck
traps" and "earliest date of designation," among others. Most of these guys
can still taxi under their own power, too, which is remarkable since they're
all in their 80s - early 90s. THAT'S impressive!

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

"I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."

- Zsa Zsa Gabor


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/1/03 1:05 PM, in article , "Mike
> Kanze" > wrote:
>
> > Woody,
> >
> > What is "old?"
> >
> > 1) You don't know what "old" is (or feels) until you see a bird whose
BuNo
> > adorns several of your logbook entries sitting in a museum somewhere.
In my
> > case: KA-6D, BuNo 152910, now sitting forlornly in the back lot of the
> > Western Aerospace Museum at Oakland airport. Just a bunch of aluminum
held
> > together by a bazillion coats of paint. Tanker package still installed,
> > though.
> >
> > 2) When I went through VT-10 as a SNFO in 1969, the flight syllabus
> > consisted of several low-level visual nav hops about the south Alabama
> > countryside in the squadron's fleet of venerable C-45 / SNB
"Bugsmashers."
> > The VT-10 CO had the following painted above the pax hatch on each of
these
> > birds: "NFO Trainer - Built 194X," with the "X" variable indicating the
> > exact year of manufacture.
> >
> > Oldest "Secret Navy Bomber" in his fleet was one built during the third
> > Roosevelt administration. All of these tired birds were older that the
> > students using them, and in many cases, the instructors teaching in them
> > too. The Skipper always made sure that this fact was explained to each
> > visiting Poo-Bah - especially anyone from Washington or having anything
to
> > do with Naval appropriations.
> >
> > Owl sends.
>
> Owl,
>
> What a hoot! (No pun intended.) And no question... You'll always be
older
> than me. |:-) But I have some old airplanes too...
>
> 149484, a KA-6D, January 1990. The airframe was estimated to be 28 years
> old back then. It was still older than me. I think it's a reef now. Got
> lots of hops in the one on the stick in Grand Junction too. It used to be
a
> China Lake bird. Got time in several 149 BUNO A-6E's when I was a FRP in
> VA-128. I'm sure we've got time in the same jets. Scary, huh.
>
> You get the picture. The cycle repeats itself.
>
> Now I read that the Hornet just turned 25? Struck me as ironic that I
can't
> get away from old jets (162 series BUNO's in Lot 8's now). Even weirder
to
> think I'm now flying them against guys who graduated college in 2000.
> Parading my stories of night Intruder traps on LEXINGTON in front of them
> wouldn't even be sport any more. Can't impress these kids because most of
> them don't know anything smaller than KITTY HAWK class.
>
> --Woody
>

[John Carrier]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
...
> Woody,
>
> >149484, a KA-6D, January 1990.
>
> For what it's worth -
>
> According to my A-6A/B/C NATOPS, at that time (1974) 149484 was "not in
> fleet use" and not even a A, B or C.

Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
Norfolk. Have no idea about the history of the airframe, but its the oldest
A-6 variant in my logbook (which includes a handful of EA-6A and the first
flight of the first ever rewing A6-E ... that'll get me a cup of Starbucks
for $6.95).

Well Woody, I tried to hide it from you, son. But I occasionally flew
something other than a fast mover.

R / John (AKA Masher, former fighter ... phighter? ... pilot)

[Elmshoot]

>Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
>I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
>Norfolk.
Hey guys I checked my log book. I have 21 flights in 149482 for 41.9 hours it
was a K in VA-95 during the mid 80's.
Oldest bomber was 149944 in 128 early 80's.
Great planes, Last night I was flying a 727-200 with the big motor conversion
-271 engines on the pods full fuel and 29K cargo .
Going throgh 30,000 feet we were climbing at 3000 FPM at .8 mach. I told the
crew that I never flew a Military plane with that kind of performance As long
as you never went over 30 degrees AOB. I don't know if the test pilots did it
but I bet as clean as the 727 airframe is I bet it will go Mach 1in a dive.

[John R Weiss]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote...
>
> The "seniormost" A-6 in my logbook is 149950 (No. 36 off the production
> line), an AFC 200 A-6A at the time. Flew it first in 1972 as a FRBN in
> VA-128, who then foisted it onto we Lizards for our 1973 cruise.

Lessee... I flew

T-33 133639 in 1/76

T-34B 140654 in 8/74

KA-6D 149936 in 10/83

A-6E 149943 in 4/89

A-4C 150591 in 4/76 (newer than the KA-6D and A-6E!?!)

SH-3G 151532 in 12/77

TA-4J 152867 in 12/77

[s.p.i.]

(Elmshoot) wrote in message >...
> >Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
> >I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
> >Norfolk.
> Hey guys I checked my log book. I have 21 flights in 149482 for 41.9 hours it
> was a K in VA-95 during the mid 80's.
> Oldest bomber was 149944 in 128 early 80's.
> Great planes, Last night I was flying a 727-200 with the big motor conversion
> -271 engines on the pods full fuel and 29K cargo .
> Going throgh 30,000 feet we were climbing at 3000 FPM at .8 mach. I told the
> crew that I never flew a Military plane with that kind of performance As long
> as you never went over 30 degrees AOB. I don't know if the test pilots did it
> but I bet as clean as the 727 airframe is I bet it will go Mach 1in a dive.

One did in an accidental dive in '79
http://www.thesunlink.com/news/99november/daily/1124b1b.html

Also a production DC-8 went supersonic (this was intentional though)

http://www.dc8.org/library/supersonic/index.php

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/5/03 2:49 PM, in article , "Mike
Kanze" > wrote:

> Woody,
>
>> 149484, a KA-6D, January 1990.
>
> For what it's worth -
>
> According to my A-6A/B/C NATOPS, at that time (1974) 149484 was "not in
> fleet use" and not even a A, B or C. A number of its production-mates were
> / were being converted to EA-6As at the time, so it's possible that this one
> was sitting around at Grumman, in mod to become queer or in reserve. BTW,
> 149484 was No. 18 off the A-6 production line at Grumman. At that time all
> of the EA-6As were conversions from among the first ~90 straight As
> produced.
>
> The "seniormost" A-6 in my logbook is 149950 (No. 36 off the production
> line), an AFC 200 A-6A at the time. Flew it first in 1972 as a FRBN in
> VA-128, who then foisted it onto we Lizards for our 1973 cruise.
>

Pretty interesting stuff. If those jets got retired, the Navy must have
brought them back to life as tankers. Knightriders did the last KA-6D
cruise (at least on the west coast). We had two 149-series tankers in the
mix. It made everybody a bit wide-eyed.

In fact, the Yogi Gallagher "B/N trappin' in the wind" event was in a
149-series KA-6D... and the jet's top-latch mechanism that failed and caused
the mishap was a "fly to failure" part. The jet was older than either of
the aircrew.

>> Even weirder to think I'm now flying them against guys who graduated
> college in 2000.
>
> Curt Seth, an LCDR on AIRPAC staff is screening for command. He was a
> little kid running around in his Dad Roy's yard on the Rock when Roy and I
> were Lizards together. When the kids of your shipmates are screening for
> (and getting) command, you tend to look in the mirror just a bit longer.
>

Opie and I were squadronmates in VA-52. I have the same sorts of moments
with him that you had with his dad--standing around watching our kids run
around in the back yard. Hey, I feel younger already! |:-)

Just saw him at the Adversary OAG in Key West in September--great guy. He
may have time in 149484 too--although the last time it appears in my log
book is June 1991. He checked into VA-52 as a nugget when I had been in the
squadron for about a year or two.

>> Can't impress these kids because most of them don't know anything smaller
> than KITTY HAWK class.
>
> I have a slightly different take on this. My Dad, a Naval aviator from
> 1940 - 1965, and Mom attend Tailhook every year. He runs around the exhibit
> area wearing a F-4U sweatshirt. It's a sure-fire conversation-starter. He
> finds the "kids" as interested in that era of Naval aviation as he is in
> what's currently happening with them.
>

I gotta make it out to TH so *I* can hear those stories too. I was working
this year.

> One of the more poignant things at each year's Tailhook Reunion Luncheon are
> the recognition awards for the old-timers, including "most straight-deck
> traps" and "earliest date of designation," among others. Most of these guys
> can still taxi under their own power, too, which is remarkable since they're
> all in their 80s - early 90s. THAT'S impressive!
>
> Owl sends.

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/5/03 8:55 PM, in article , "John
Carrier" > wrote:

>
> "Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Woody,
>>
>>> 149484, a KA-6D, January 1990.
>>
>> For what it's worth -
>>
>> According to my A-6A/B/C NATOPS, at that time (1974) 149484 was "not in
>> fleet use" and not even a A, B or C.
>
> Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
> I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
> Norfolk. Have no idea about the history of the airframe, but its the oldest
> A-6 variant in my logbook (which includes a handful of EA-6A and the first
> flight of the first ever rewing A6-E ... that'll get me a cup of Starbucks
> for $6.95).
>
> Well Woody, I tried to hide it from you, son. But I occasionally flew
> something other than a fast mover.
>
> R / John (AKA Masher, former fighter ... phighter? ... pilot)
>
>

Masher, I *knew* there was a reason I liked you! Nice work. You hid it
well these last many years.

--Woody

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/5/03 11:36 PM, in article
, "Elmshoot" >
wrote:

>> Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
>> I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
>> Norfolk.
> Hey guys I checked my log book. I have 21 flights in 149482 for 41.9 hours it
> was a K in VA-95 during the mid 80's.
> Oldest bomber was 149944 in 128 early 80's.
> Great planes, Last night I was flying a 727-200 with the big motor conversion
> -271 engines on the pods full fuel and 29K cargo .
> Going throgh 30,000 feet we were climbing at 3000 FPM at .8 mach. I told the
> crew that I never flew a Military plane with that kind of performance As long
> as you never went over 30 degrees AOB. I don't know if the test pilots did it
> but I bet as clean as the 727 airframe is I bet it will go Mach 1in a dive.

Those are some impressive numbers! I had the same thoughts about the 757 or
the empty 767-300. They both have better thrust to weight than the
Intruder--even at MTOW.

Mach 727's in a dive? There's the whole "Hoot Gibson" story. He may have
been supersonic.

--Woody

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/6/03 4:04 PM, in article
, "s.p.i."
> wrote:

> (Elmshoot) wrote in message
> >...
>>> Funny thing happened as I scanned this exchange. I checked my logbook and
>>> I've got two hops in 149484 Feb 14 and 21, 1985. PMCF from rework at NADEP
>>> Norfolk.
>> Hey guys I checked my log book. I have 21 flights in 149482 for 41.9 hours it
>> was a K in VA-95 during the mid 80's.
>> Oldest bomber was 149944 in 128 early 80's.
>> Great planes, Last night I was flying a 727-200 with the big motor conversion
>> -271 engines on the pods full fuel and 29K cargo .
>> Going throgh 30,000 feet we were climbing at 3000 FPM at .8 mach. I told the
>> crew that I never flew a Military plane with that kind of performance As long
>> as you never went over 30 degrees AOB. I don't know if the test pilots did it
>> but I bet as clean as the 727 airframe is I bet it will go Mach 1in a dive.
>
> One did in an accidental dive in '79
> http://www.thesunlink.com/news/99november/daily/1124b1b.html
>
> Also a production DC-8 went supersonic (this was intentional though)
>
> http://www.dc8.org/library/supersonic/index.php

This must have been written before the DFDR and cockpit tape analysis.
Funny how they're using Hoot's experience to defend the knucklehead FO on
Egypt Air.

I agree that rushing to snap judgments on a mishap is mostly bad, but this
one seemed pretty cut and dried.

[s.p.i.]

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message >...
> > One did in an accidental dive in '79
> > http://www.thesunlink.com/news/99november/daily/1124b1b.html
> >
> > Also a production DC-8 went supersonic (this was intentional though)
> >
> > http://www.dc8.org/library/supersonic/index.php
>
> This must have been written before the DFDR and cockpit tape analysis.
> Funny how they're using Hoot's experience to defend the knucklehead FO on
> Egypt Air.
>
> I agree that rushing to snap judgments on a mishap is mostly bad, but this
> one seemed pretty cut and dried.

I just grabbed a link referring to the 727 dive and didn't see the
author was making a grand logic leap about the Egypt Air...
Elm's 72 is pretty sporty....Besides the 727 LOOKS like it goes fast.

[John Carrier]

If you mean any airplane (I was referring to a specific A-6 I happened to
fly that you also shared) ... The A-6 was relatively new production as a
149xxx.

T-34 - 140692
T-2 - 147450
F-8 - 145549
S-2 - 133335 (don't ask, I won't tell)
A-4 - 150105 (an Echo ... oddly enough, my last military flight)

Any of these (well, maybe not the T-34 ... they're quite popular as toys)
would most likely be enjoying a second life as a 12oz container for some
widely distributed brew, although there's the remote possibility they might
adorn a pedestal somewhere.

R / John

[Robert Moore]

"John Carrier" wrote

> S-2 - 133335 (don't ask, I won't tell)

I can beat that one....S2F-1 129139 :-)

Bob

[Chuck]

(Robert=A0Moore) wrote:

"I can beat that one....S2F-1 129139 :-)"
---
I know it doesn't count because I wasn't driving, but manually and
frantically pumping down the gear on Buno 39329 P2V-2 was a memorable
feat - especially when we only had a short window at Gibralter while the
traffic was halted.

Chuck



HEAVY ATTACK COMPOSITE (VC-5,6,7,8,9) WEBSITE
http://community.webtv.net/charles379/USNComposite

FAIRECONRON ONE AND TWO (VQ-1/2) CASUALTIES
http://www.anzwers.org/free/navyscpo4/Chuck_Huber_AirCrew.html

[Mike Kanze]

UC-45J, BuNo 12388
(2.7 hours at 2.5K' AGL dodging carrion birds over scenic southern Alabama,
1/6/70, VT-10, NAS P-cola)

Also similar VT-10 hops in BuNos 39280, 39947, 51112 and 51194.

Taxpayers got their money's worth out of these ancient craft.

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

"Santa Claus has the right idea - visit people only once a year."

- Victor Borge


"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
> If you mean any airplane (I was referring to a specific A-6 I happened to
> fly that you also shared) ... The A-6 was relatively new production as a
> 149xxx.
>
> T-34 - 140692
> T-2 - 147450
> F-8 - 145549
> S-2 - 133335 (don't ask, I won't tell)
> A-4 - 150105 (an Echo ... oddly enough, my last military flight)
>
> Any of these (well, maybe not the T-34 ... they're quite popular as toys)
> would most likely be enjoying a second life as a 12oz container for some
> widely distributed brew, although there's the remote possibility they
might
> adorn a pedestal somewhere.
>
> R / John
>
>

[Robert Moore]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote

> UC-45J, BuNo 12388
> (2.7 hours at 2.5K' AGL dodging carrion birds over scenic
> southern Alabama, 1/6/70, VT-10, NAS P-cola)

Gotcha beat!
TC-45J, BuNo 12364
3.8 hours, NAS Norfolk, December 31, 1963

Bob

[Allen Epps]

In article >, Robert
Moore > wrote:

> "Mike Kanze" > wrote
>
> > UC-45J, BuNo 12388
> > (2.7 hours at 2.5K' AGL dodging carrion birds over scenic
> > southern Alabama, 1/6/70, VT-10, NAS P-cola)
>
> Gotcha beat!
> TC-45J, BuNo 12364
> 3.8 hours, NAS Norfolk, December 31, 1963
>
> Bob

Gee I thought the T-45 was pretty new :^ , oh wait, never mind. I
thought my VT-10 T-2B's was old, I'll not even bother posting those
buno's even though one came out of the NAM through rework to 10.
Pugs