Aw ****s and Bravo Zulus

[Gordon]

Everyone knows that one wipes out a career full of attaboys. What is your
favorite non-fatal "aw ****" story? I thought we could also make a thread and
tell about the best flying each of us encountered.

On Ike in 1980, we had Whales. Either one or two of the massive things, but
they were infrequent visitors and our flight deck crew adapted to their
periodic arrivals and departures. On one of the evolutions where the A-3 was
aboard, the poderous thing trundled over to the port bow cat and got ready to
go, but went down for a black box. The "board guy" (never knew what they
called the man that held up the board telling both the pilot and the catapault
crew how much that particular aircraft weighed) did his thing but the launch
didn't happen. The director taxiied the giant clear of the cat, allowing the
A-7 waiting behind the JBD to slide up and take its place. The A-3 cleared the
area with some difficulty (manuevering a bull in a china shop is a good mental
picture of the situation), and all I can think of is that this unfamiliar sight
temporarily distracted the cat crew. At any rate, the A-7, weighing probably
about 1/3rd of that flying brontosaurus, was now sitting on a cat set to launch
something two thirds larger than himself. The mistake was not caught and in a
flash, literally, the A-7 was flung skyward with quite a bit more oomph than
was necessary - in fact, it looked like it was shot out of a cannon! The force
was enough to detach the extremely large belly pan underneath the Corsair and
several panels came off in the slipstream. The pilot, pinned backwards in his
seat, must have wondered what hit him, but he kept the flailing A-7 out of the
water and made one of the quickest patterns I've seen, bringing it straight
back around to land, approximately three to five minutes after launch. Hitting
the deck loosened up other panels and left a trail of zeus fittings and other
hardware bouncing down the deck. The pilot, glaring, stomped off the deck to
find a Cat&Arresting Gear officer to have for lunch...

Now, for Bravo Zulus, I have to mention HSL-33's LCDR Steele - flying off the
coast of San Diego, he had a rotor blade come apart, slinging parts in all
directions and creating such massive vibrations that the crewman was nearly
knocked out by his own helmet. The copilot was thrown up and down so heavily
that he could not maintain grasp on the controls. As the crippled H-2 fell out
of the sky, two out of the three man crew knew they were about to die. But
LCDR John Steele, Man of Action, grabbed the 'snake by the balls and guided it
down safely to a "Look Mom!" landing in the middle of hundreds of scantily clad
beach-goers on Silver Strand beach. No injuries, helo intact. Try that, only
using four out of five rotor blades! (I don't know about the other pilots, but
Steele never had to beg for a crewman to ride with him again!) Later, this
same magnificent aviator guided an H-46 down onto the deck of a passing ship (I
think USS Reid?) thousands of feet below him after his Seaknight nearly broke
in half in flight. Again, no deaths. On the pilot scale (1 being Lt.
"Iiiiii've g-g-g-got c-c-control" McDonald and 10 being Bill Dana), Commander
Steele was up there with CDR John Gana at about an 8.5. Steele wasn't lucky -
just very well equipped mentally for just about any emergency. My kind of
pilot!

v/r
Gordon

[Charlie Wolf]

My biggest career "Aw ****"...
3 years on recruiting duty (It was the longest 7 years of my life).

....and yes, it does wipe out thousands of attaboys..
Regards,

On 01 Dec 2003 17:22:40 GMT, (Gordon) wrote:

>Everyone knows that one wipes out a career full of attaboys. What is your
>favorite non-fatal "aw ****" story? I thought we could also make a thread and
>tell about the best flying each of us encountered.
snipped...

[Mike Kanze]

Not sure what category this one falls into, but . . .

In the early 1970s, a VA-95 crew launched on a night VFR bombing mission,
lugging two MERs worth of the mighty MK-76 air-to-ground weapon against the
treacherous Commie bus hulks infesting the Plaster City target area.

Our Lizards checked in, acquired the "target" and commenced several
satisfying runs punctuated with the appropriate number of flashes, and
departed the area with all MERs empty.

However their return was greeted by a delegation of senior folks who
immediately escorted them to one of those rooms with a long green felt
covering on the table. Seems that, while they had dumped their ordnance on
the range, the "target" they'd hit was a group of campers who had sneaked
onto the range VERY close to the real target and whose campfires lay in
approximately the same general "X" pattern as the night bullseye markings.

Fortunately, no one was hurt. But there were several vehicles and camper
shells that were much the worse for wear. The whole thing officially ended
in one of those "we won't sue you for violating the law (and being stupid)
if you won't sue us for poor target recognition skills" agreements.

Epilogue: During the one-day safety standown following the Camper Attack,
Eric-The-Lizard-AI-Guy posted an additional set of recognition photos in the
ready room:

Winnebago, Leer, etc.

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

"I never hated a man enough to give his diamonds back."

- Zsa Zsa Gabor


"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
> Everyone knows that one wipes out a career full of attaboys. What is your
> favorite non-fatal "aw ****" story? I thought we could also make a thread
and
> tell about the best flying each of us encountered.
>
> On Ike in 1980, we had Whales. Either one or two of the massive things,
but
> they were infrequent visitors and our flight deck crew adapted to their
> periodic arrivals and departures. On one of the evolutions where the A-3
was
> aboard, the poderous thing trundled over to the port bow cat and got ready
to
> go, but went down for a black box. The "board guy" (never knew what they
> called the man that held up the board telling both the pilot and the
catapault
> crew how much that particular aircraft weighed) did his thing but the
launch
> didn't happen. The director taxiied the giant clear of the cat, allowing
the
> A-7 waiting behind the JBD to slide up and take its place. The A-3
cleared the
> area with some difficulty (manuevering a bull in a china shop is a good
mental
> picture of the situation), and all I can think of is that this unfamiliar
sight
> temporarily distracted the cat crew. At any rate, the A-7, weighing
probably
> about 1/3rd of that flying brontosaurus, was now sitting on a cat set to
launch
> something two thirds larger than himself. The mistake was not caught and
in a
> flash, literally, the A-7 was flung skyward with quite a bit more oomph
than
> was necessary - in fact, it looked like it was shot out of a cannon! The
force
> was enough to detach the extremely large belly pan underneath the Corsair
and
> several panels came off in the slipstream. The pilot, pinned backwards in
his
> seat, must have wondered what hit him, but he kept the flailing A-7 out of
the
> water and made one of the quickest patterns I've seen, bringing it
straight
> back around to land, approximately three to five minutes after launch.
Hitting
> the deck loosened up other panels and left a trail of zeus fittings and
other
> hardware bouncing down the deck. The pilot, glaring, stomped off the deck
to
> find a Cat&Arresting Gear officer to have for lunch...
>
> Now, for Bravo Zulus, I have to mention HSL-33's LCDR Steele - flying off
the
> coast of San Diego, he had a rotor blade come apart, slinging parts in all
> directions and creating such massive vibrations that the crewman was
nearly
> knocked out by his own helmet. The copilot was thrown up and down so
heavily
> that he could not maintain grasp on the controls. As the crippled H-2
fell out
> of the sky, two out of the three man crew knew they were about to die.
But
> LCDR John Steele, Man of Action, grabbed the 'snake by the balls and
guided it
> down safely to a "Look Mom!" landing in the middle of hundreds of scantily
clad
> beach-goers on Silver Strand beach. No injuries, helo intact. Try that,
only
> using four out of five rotor blades! (I don't know about the other
pilots, but
> Steele never had to beg for a crewman to ride with him again!) Later,
this
> same magnificent aviator guided an H-46 down onto the deck of a passing
ship (I
> think USS Reid?) thousands of feet below him after his Seaknight nearly
broke
> in half in flight. Again, no deaths. On the pilot scale (1 being Lt.
> "Iiiiii've g-g-g-got c-c-control" McDonald and 10 being Bill Dana),
Commander
> Steele was up there with CDR John Gana at about an 8.5. Steele wasn't
lucky -
> just very well equipped mentally for just about any emergency. My kind of
> pilot!
>
> v/r
> Gordon

[Elmshoot]

>Everyone knows that one wipes out a career full of attaboys. What is your
>favorite non-fatal "aw ****" story? I thought we could also make a thread
>and
>tell about the best flying each of us encountered.
>

I was in VA-95. Fly off during work ups mid 80's from the Enterprise we had
been up for 36 hours or so not counting the cat naps. Since the fly off happens
early in the morning we needed to pack up our gear for the off load since we
would be on the fly off. Then since it is a the work ups and the ships needs to
get the Norex qual done we go down to CVIC and get our foil packs and this time
we don't have to carry "Simulated" weapons but they do hang a single MK 76 on
some of the planes so we have to fly the profile and stop by NFL on our way to
NUW.
I'm dash 2 of a section. I think I was in a KA-6d regardless I didn't have a
"weapon" so I flew with my lead over to Fallon and they make their "Really
Ready" I just lag behind and since it is only a MK 76 they stay at altitude
and do a 40 degree high dive. I'm about 200 yards in trail for the dive just
kind of a sloppy loose form keeping lead in sight and figure I will make an
easy rejoin on the way out. So here we are in a dive I'm watching lead and
thinking that I may not even see the MK 76 fall off the plane since it is small
and I am looking only at the tail aspect. When all of a sudden I see this big
flash and then a drop tank comes off the leads plane it tumbles off the plane
end over end. I pull off real quick since this is something I didn't expect and
who knows what else may come off the leads plane. They pull off and I don't
know if my excited calls or they felt the Drop tank hit the plane but by the
time I rendevous on the right side the BN is sitting there shaking his head. It
was a switcholigy SNFU all the crews fault they selected the drop tank.... No
wait a second it wasn't a drop tank it was a Blivot! It had everybodys dop kit
as well as other incidentals. He dropped the Blivot!!!! Man will this cost big
time at the bar!!!
We had a trusted agent working at strike U ( Orders to the Squadron) so he went
out to the range and spent a day or two looking for our dirty skivies. He
finally located the Blivot it was 6oclock and 6000'. One of the guys who loaded
his stuff in the Blivot had a can of powdered supliment r=that the weight
lifters take it was located in the back of the Blivot so that when it hit it
was forced through everyone elses gear rendering everything unusable. At the
B/N hfairwell we presented him with the pounds of stuff he had destroyed by his
error.
I guess his carreer survived. I saw him 6 months ago as a 3 star BG commander
on a TV interview. I guess the CO forgot to mention this little lesson learned
on his detachment Fit Rep. Trade school ya know.
Sparky
Sorry for the typos

[Michael E. Fenyes]

"Gordon" > wrote in message
...
>Commander Steele was up there with CDR John Gana at about an 8.5. Steele
wasn't lucky -
> just very well equipped mentally for just about any emergency. My kind of
> pilot!
>
> v/r
> Gordon

Must heartily concur with the assesment of CDR John Gana. One of those
pilots where strapping on an H-2 was the equivalent of putting on a glove.
If he could think it, the H-2 did it. A very laid back guy, unless, of
course, one displayed constant incompetence at the controls. Gordon can
probably relate better than I one particular instance. It was supposed to be
one of those "good deal" cross-countries that degraded so fast into a
two-day sentence to purgatory we ran screaming the next time we were offered
one (but that's another story). Anyway, CDR Gana and a LT (whose name
escapes me) were our HAC and H2P respectively. Once airborne and in the lane
CDR Gana turns the aircraft over to the "youngster" and proceeds to start a
leak check on his eyelids. After approximately 5 minutes, the air moving
through the slipstream starts creeping into the cockpit and pushes over the
delicately balanced head of the HAC. This interrupts the aforesaid leak
check and prompts a one word ICS call: "Ball". Placing trust and confidence
in the youngsters ability to follow his instruction, the leak check
re-commenced. Another 5 minutes and the little drama is repeated exactly,
word for word. Except the ICS call was just a little louder. Like the H2P
didn't hear him the first time. Another 5 minutes, another rude awakening.
This time, CDR Gana, my favorite pilot of all time, swore. "Ball dammit!"
Gordon and I are in the back, with eyes like saucers. Both thinking the
exact same thing: "Did you hear that?" The reader must understand that CDR
Gana was UNFLAPPABLE. This guy flew H-2's in Vietnam and nothing ever got
his blood up and we NEVER heard him raise his voice. Apparently, this LT
discovered that not keeping the turn-and-bank centered, ie: displaying
piloting incompetence, was the proper way to get under CDR Gana's skin. So,
now realizing he will not get his little nap, CDR Gana takes the controls.
Not another word was uttered in the cockpit until we made ready to land.
Don't know if the youngster was chastised or not, the CDR would never do
that in front of others. He was a real class act.

Michael E. Fenyes
AW HSL-33 '83 - '86

[WaltBJ]

Here's an AF DS/BZ that curled our hair when we got the FlySafe flash.
57TFS at Iceland had F4Es painted USAFE green, etc. Someone decided
North Atlantic grey would be better. So one by one the birds were
sprayed grey all over. Now, the F4E wings do fold - they're manual
instead of power and there's no lock control in the cockpit. The
manual control is in the left wheel well. Anyway, the frshly painted
bird is on the schedule and off it goes. About halfway down the runway
the RIO lets out a squawk and the bird promptly pitches up off the
deck below rotation speed. BTW it's got three full external tanks hung
on it so the CG is already well aft. The front seater is pushing the
stick forward as the RIO is yelling the wings are unlocked - front
seater can't get the nose down so he rolls the bird inverted ad now
the nose is coming 'down' real fast. He rolls upright and avoids
hitting the ground and in a series of half rolls and full AB they
manage to get to a friendlier altitude. They do some fuel management
to get the CG as far forward as possible, run an approach to slower
speed and find they can make an approach at around 220 and the wing
outer panels will stay down. They get down okay, use the mid-field
arresting gear to stop (thanks for the hook, Navy!) and taxi back in.
The WingCo meets the A/C and they have a little conversation - the
gist being one 'well-done' cancels one 'aw-****'. Seems the tell-tale
unlock pins had their nice bright red over-sprayed dark grey and
everybody missed them sticking up out of the wings. (BTW after flying
the 104 I always wondered how an F4 would go minus the outer wing
panels and the CG readjusted.)
Walt BJ

[Gordon]

Mike, that one sounds like the S-3A "kill" in GW1 - they went in to bomb in a
glide and the pilot pickled his aux tank instead of (or in addition to) the
bombs. Any kill though...right?

v/r
Gordon

[Gordon]

> (BTW after flying
>the 104 I always wondered how an F4 would go minus the outer wing
>panels and the CG readjusted.)
>Walt

Walt, only a fighter jock thinks like that! :)

v/r
Gordon

[J]

"WaltBJ" > wrote in message
om...
(BTW after flying the 104 I always wondered how an F4 would go minus the
outer wing
panels and the CG readjusted.) Walt BJ

It probably would have to go in burner, and wouldn't go long enough to get
to the tanker. But it would be a hell of a ride while it lasted.

Red Rider

[Gordon]

Hey! Its Mikoyan!

>Anyway, CDR Gana and a LT (whose name
>escapes me) were our HAC and H2P respectively.

LT "OOOOOKKKKK" ring a bell? (The guy said, "OK", before every single
sentence.)

>
>This time, CDR Gana, my favorite pilot of all time, swore. "Ball dammit!"

Like it was yesterday, Mike. Sure got a laugh out of that one.

>Don't know if the youngster was chastised or not, the CDR would never do
>that in front of others. He was a real class act.

Probably still is - I doubt the Brown Water Navy ruined him... He and Henry H
Brus III are the two finest officers I ever served under, and I'd proudly
follow them still.

Good to see you again, Mike. Call us in San Diego - but this time, stay off
Guard. :)

yf
Gordon

(Gurevich, for old time's sake)

[Pechs1]

Donny Sogga, cleared for an impromtu 'air show/fly-by' at a Italian AirForce
field...Was cleared by the tower, found the field and commenced to beat up the
field, AB passes, hi g turns, low passes, lots of noise and such...Then asked
how the tower liked it and the tower said, 'not in sight, continue'..wrong
airfield...

And then, ask about my gear up touch and go in a T-2, or going nose to nose
with a civilian 737.....at Norfolk, or....


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"WaltBJ" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Now, the F4E wings do fold - they're manual
> instead of power and there's no lock control in the cockpit. The
> manual control is in the left wheel well.
>

Are you sure about that? I was a crew chief on F-4Ds which had hydraulic
wing folding. It's been a long time, but as I recall the locks, which were
located at the wing fold, had to be backed out by hand and then the
hydraulic mechanism could be activated. The hydraulic control was located
in the left wheel well. I know the F-4E deleted the hydraulics, I assumed
that would remove anything related to wing folding from the wheel well.

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/3/03 9:14 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" > wrote:

> Donny Sogga, cleared for an impromtu 'air show/fly-by' at a Italian AirForce
> field...Was cleared by the tower, found the field and commenced to beat up the
> field, AB passes, hi g turns, low passes, lots of noise and such...Then asked
> how the tower liked it and the tower said, 'not in sight, continue'..wrong
> airfield...
>
> And then, ask about my gear up touch and go in a T-2, or going nose to nose
> with a civilian 737.....at Norfolk, or....
>
>
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Gear up T&G in a T-2? How'd that work out for you?

--Woody

[vincent p. norris]

>> And then, ask about my gear up touch and go in a T-2, ...
>>
>> P. C. Chisholm

>Gear up T&G in a T-2? How'd that work out for you?

Yeah, I'd especially like to hear about the "go" part.

vince norris

[stephen.mudgett]

Don Sogga, one (of 5) of my skippers, while I was in '33. Real super
guy, great Skipper, too.
Stephen Mudgett
http://www.stephenmudgett.com

Pechs1 wrote:

>Donny Sogga, cleared for an impromtu 'air show/fly-by' at a Italian AirForce
>field...Was cleared by the tower, found the field and commenced to beat up the
>field, AB passes, hi g turns, low passes, lots of noise and such...Then asked
>how the tower liked it and the tower said, 'not in sight, continue'..wrong
>airfield...
>
>And then, ask about my gear up touch and go in a T-2, or going nose to nose
>with a civilian 737.....at Norfolk, or....
>
>
>P. C. Chisholm
>CDR, USN(ret.)
>Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>
>

[Pechs1]

Doug-<< Gear up T&G in a T-2? How'd that work out for you? >><BR><BR>

Got my attention, really loud, skipping off the runway..I was in the trunk as a
'IP' teaching another JO the T-2(in VF-126). One thing ya do is pull an engine
to idle in the landing pattern, 'student' needs to pull gear up and go 1/2
flaps..be safely sirborne, downwind, then gear back down and a single engine
approach...He reported gear down, speedbrakes in, i looked down and thought,
yep, they are down cuz they say 'up', up' 'up'....was class C, really just
broke the underbelly anti-smash light, The metal benders took off the belly
pans, pounded them out...didn't even get a new call sign outta it.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

stephen-<< Don Sogga, one (of 5) of my skippers, while I was in '33. Real super

guy, great Skipper, too. >><BR><BR>

Interesting that he screened for the squadron where he did his dept head tour.
He was Ops in VF-33 when I was a nugget...great guy, along with Lurch
Bunting...they made a great team, Ops and MO...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[nafod40]

Pechs1 wrote:
> Doug-<< Gear up T&G in a T-2? How'd that work out for you? >><BR><BR>
>
> Got my attention, really loud, skipping off the runway..I was in the trunk as a
> 'IP' teaching another JO the T-2(in VF-126).

Anybody else remember the post-night-form-midair-fluster-induced gear up
night landing in the A-4 by a stud? I still have the Approach article.

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/4/03 9:21 AM, in article , "nafod40"
> wrote:

> Pechs1 wrote:
>> Doug-<< Gear up T&G in a T-2? How'd that work out for you? >><BR><BR>
>>
>> Got my attention, really loud, skipping off the runway..I was in the trunk as
>> a
>> 'IP' teaching another JO the T-2(in VF-126).
>
> Anybody else remember the post-night-form-midair-fluster-induced gear up
> night landing in the A-4 by a stud? I still have the Approach article.
>
>

I don't remember that one. Perhaps I should, but I don't. Feel free to
refresh my memory.

Speaking of bouncing gear up jets off of runways: I did know a guy who
punched out of an RF-8 in Da Nang (I think it was Da Nang) resulting from a
"fluster induced" premature gear retract.

He was a JG at the time. He was in a hurry to join two LCDR's flying
Scooters. They were taking a cross country in the middle of the deployment
to Cubi. (What a concept!) There was a low overcast.

The A-4 jocks planned a section go, promising to stay beneath the scud until
he was aboard, and then punch up through as a flight.

They took off and immediately disappeared into the clag. He (wondering what
to do next) reverted to his old habit patterns and through the gear up as
soon as the jet felt light. (Keep in mind this was his first field take off
in several months, so he was operating off of shipboard habit
pattern--frustrated, brain stem only at this point).

The jet didn't have flying speed, settled onto the runway, bounced, fodded
the motor, started coughing and chugging and shutting itself down, so he
punched out. It careened back into the runway leaving a big mess.

They did the FNAEB on him 2 days later and put him right back on the flight
schedule.

--Woody

[stephen.mudgett]

Would that be the same (Dan) Bunting that became Skipper in '102 during
the early 80's?

Stephen Mudgett
ex VF-33 AQ2
www.stephenmudgett.com


Pechs1 wrote:

>stephen-<< Don Sogga, one (of 5) of my skippers, while I was in '33. Real super
>
>guy, great Skipper, too. >><BR><BR>
>
>Interesting that he screened for the squadron where he did his dept head tour.
>He was Ops in VF-33 when I was a nugget...great guy, along with Lurch
>Bunting...they made a great team, Ops and MO...
>P. C. Chisholm
>CDR, USN(ret.)
>Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>
>

[C.D.Damron]

Jumping in with my dad's aw ****s.

1) Hard wheels up in an A-3 at Whidbey. Tower had visual and didn't
question the missing landing light. This was a touch-and-go and crew was
lucky to walk away without broken backs. I posted the pic on the
Skywarrior website.


2) A-3 Cockpit flooded with av fuel in flight - hundreds of gallons. Crew
was almost overwhelmed and blinded by fumes. afraid to bail out due to the
chutes being soaked with fuel, afraid to key a mic and go down in flames.


Somebody jump in with some details on a stunt that caused a few aw ****s.
I recall my father describing that in order to really have a **** hot
take-off, it was possible in an F-8 or F-4 to select gear up on the take-off
roll. A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
airborne. One or more planes were turned into sleds when a change in grade
took the weight off the wheels prior to rotation.

Any details on this?

[Larry]

>A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
>airborne.
Yes, but hit a slight hump in the runway (while on rollout) can extend the
gear just that couple inches it takes to make the "weight on wheels" switch.
Then it's "AW ****" time again.

Many aircraft have a MLG designed to be slightly "over center" with some
weight on the gear. This design *helps* prevent gear retraction on deck. I
know- we've all read the safety messages detailing how somebody had a
"stupid attack" and raised the gear while on deck. And I think some of you
folks here are the ones we read about :-)

Sure looks cool to see the gear come up as soon as the aircraft lifts.
Especially the way the Air Force guys like to take off- Fast, and real low
for (it seems) the length of the runway. And they got some real LONG
runways. The Navy pilots make up for that as they have the SHORTEST runways
(you know- the ugly gray ones that keep us away from home for so long).

Kinda longwinded here. Too much coffee this afternoon.

Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)





"C.D.Damron" > wrote in message
news:lCTzb.231342$Dw6.816845@attbi_s02...
> Jumping in with my dad's aw ****s.
>
> 1) Hard wheels up in an A-3 at Whidbey. Tower had visual and didn't
> question the missing landing light. This was a touch-and-go and crew was
> lucky to walk away without broken backs. I posted the pic on the
> Skywarrior website.
>
>
> 2) A-3 Cockpit flooded with av fuel in flight - hundreds of gallons.
Crew
> was almost overwhelmed and blinded by fumes. afraid to bail out due to the
> chutes being soaked with fuel, afraid to key a mic and go down in flames.
>
>
> Somebody jump in with some details on a stunt that caused a few aw ****s.
> I recall my father describing that in order to really have a **** hot
> take-off, it was possible in an F-8 or F-4 to select gear up on the
take-off
> roll. A weight-on-wheels sensor would prevent the retraction until
> airborne. One or more planes were turned into sleds when a change in
grade
> took the weight off the wheels prior to rotation.
>
> Any details on this?
>
>
>

[Pechs1]

stephen-<< Would that be the same (Dan) Bunting that became Skipper in '102
during
the early 80's? >><BR><BR>

That is correct. He was also my flight lead in VF-33, when I was der nugget,
John (Shadow)Horan was in my trunk..'They' say ya learn a lot from your first
lead and RIO...that is truly an understatement....

Also took John Horan on my 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot...he took
it all so cooly, I jus about **** me britches...stayed with the A/C, but he
said he had his hand on the lower handle...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[stephen.mudgett]

CDR,
You traveled in good company. Some of my Diamond Pig buddies had nothing
but praise
for Dan Bunting as Skipper of 102.

The Skippers that I had were Frog Allen, Bear Voght, John Best (another
Great Skipper),
Don Sogga, and some guy named Burnett? (I just met the guy and then
PCS'd to Miramar)
We had a thoroughly competent R10 in '33, we AQs thought really knew his
AWG-10
well and didn't try to baffle us with bull**** if he didn't know what
was going on, during
postflight system status debriefs.
He went on to skipper VF-103. His name was Don Santapola.

Your 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot, I assume was in an F-4,
saw PLAT footage
of an '84 F-14 do the same, stall, roll inverted, aircrew punched (late)
vertically into water,
bird coming down on top of them. You've probably seen the same film.

What was the time frame for your time in '33, if I might be permitted to
inquire ( I'm trying
to get an idea of what your colorscheme was at the time, as sort or an
unofficial VF-33
Scheme/Marking history illustration that I am working on. Hellcat-Tomcat
with everything
in between)?

Stephen
http://www.stephenmudgett.com

Pechs1 wrote:

>stephen-<< Would that be the same (Dan) Bunting that became Skipper in '102
>during
>the early 80's? >><BR><BR>
>
>That is correct. He was also my flight lead in VF-33, when I was der nugget,
>John (Shadow)Horan was in my trunk..'They' say ya learn a lot from your first
>lead and RIO...that is truly an understatement....
>
>Also took John Horan on my 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot...he took
>it all so cooly, I jus about **** me britches...stayed with the A/C, but he
>said he had his hand on the lower handle...
>P. C. Chisholm
>CDR, USN(ret.)
>Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>
>

[Pechs1]

Stephen-<< The Skippers that I had were Frog Allen, Bear Voght, >><BR><BR>

Wait a minute, we were in VF-33 at the same time, Allen was CO when I was
there, followed by Steve Phimister. John Voght took over as XO from Rabbit
Campbell in VF-151(?)..

Red Best was ComFitFud when I was XO of VX-4..he got me VF-126...

stephen<< Your 'snuffed A/B, compressor stall' cat shot, I assume was in an
F-4,
saw PLAT footage
of an '84 F-14 do the same, stall, roll inverted, aircrew punched (late)
vertically into water,
bird coming down on top of them. You've probably seen the same film. >><BR><BR>

Was 'the' training folm for the F-14 RAG as to what not to do if you lost an
engine on cat shot in the Turley'...

I just went off flat, RIO 'mentioned' for me to rotate, I pulled back and
promptly 'departed'' a wee bit and A/C made a really nice right turn across the
bow(I was on cat 3 r 4)...glad nobody was getting launched at the time. Lowered
nose, lots of left rudder and flew it away, while 'Boss and CO was harping on
the UHF about crossing the stinkin' bow...

My big chance to blow off the centerline and all the missiles(2Aim-7/2 Aim-9,
centerline)...but didn't..that came later in VF-151, with F-4S....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[stephen.mudgett]

Pechs1 wrote:
Wait a minute, we were in VF-33 at the same time, Allen was CO when I was
there, followed by Steve Phimister. John Voght took over as XO from Rabbit
Campbell in VF-151(?)..

I wish my cruise book had not been stolen, I'd look you up. Frog Allen
was followed by Fred Bear Voght,
then John Burner Best. This is from 5/79 to 12/83.

My big chance to blow off the centerline and all the missiles (2Aim-7/2
Aim-9,
centerline)...but didn't..that came later in VF-151, with F-4S....

One of the many thrills one could derive from working the roof was watching
the Ordnance and centerline jettison after a bridle slap perf'd the centerline
on the F-4. It got everyone's attention, from the spectator's point of view.
No doubt a similar attitude was taken by the Aircrew (albeit a bit more intense).

Stephen

[Pechs1]

stephen-<< I'd look you up. Frog Allen
was followed by Fred Bear Voght,
then John Burner Best. This is from 5/79 to 12/83. >><BR><BR>

Yer right...I'm confusing Frog Allen withj somebody else..

stephen<< One of the many thrills one could derive from working the roof was
watching
the Ordnance and centerline jettison after a bridle slap perf'd the centerline
on the F-4. It got everyone's attention, from the spectator's point of view.
No doubt a similar attitude was taken by the Aircrew (albeit a bit more
intense). >><BR><BR>

I had more than a few but most of the time you didn't feel it, a call from a
'good' Airboss when he calmly said, " bridle slap, come outta A/B"...

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[JamesF1110]

Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was. Assume this
had nothing to do with martrimony :-)

[Pechs1]

james-<< Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was.
Assume this
had nothing to do with martrimony :-)
>><BR><BR>


Pardon my spelling up front. F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable strung
from catapult to two hooks under A/C. Unless ya wanted to throw it away each
launch, it was held by a rope made setup called the vanselm. It consisted of
some rope that were attached to brass sliders that went the length of the cat
track(brass for no sparks). Sometimes these sliders would pop out, smacking the
F-4 centerline tank, puncturing it, with thr A/B igniting the fuel that was
a'sreaming out. No big deal, just come outta A/B, fire stopped. Either let the
fuel drain out or jettison CL before recovery, look for a tanker or yo-yo(make
the recovery immediately following your launch).
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Larry]

> CDR Chisholm explained to the "Blackshoe":
> F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable strung
> from catapult to two hooks under A/C.
Here's a couple good photos (in this case an A-4 Whale- but the same idea):

http://members.cox.net/eholmes333/soun-pg5.html


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN Retired

20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror
and getting further away every day ;-)

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> james-<< Could someone explain to a blackshoe what a "bridle slap" is/was.
> Assume this
> had nothing to do with martrimony :-)
> >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Pardon my spelling up front. F-4 was launched with a bridle, big cable
strung
> from catapult to two hooks under A/C. Unless ya wanted to throw it away
each
> launch, it was held by a rope made setup called the vanselm. It consisted
of
> some rope that were attached to brass sliders that went the length of the
cat
> track(brass for no sparks). Sometimes these sliders would pop out,
smacking the
> F-4 centerline tank, puncturing it, with thr A/B igniting the fuel that
was
> a'sreaming out. No big deal, just come outta A/B, fire stopped. Either let
the
> fuel drain out or jettison CL before recovery, look for a tanker or
yo-yo(make
> the recovery immediately following your launch).
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

[Rob van Riel]

(Gordon) wrote in message >...
> > (BTW after flying
> >the 104 I always wondered how an F4 would go minus the outer wing
> >panels and the CG readjusted.)
> >Walt
>
> Walt, only a fighter jock thinks like that! :)

Sorry, but no. I'm building a model F-4 at this time, and right now,
only the lower part of the wings is attached to the fuselage. This
part ends at the location of the folds, so the kit is an F-4 without
the outer wing panels at the moment. Just yesterday, I found myself
thinking the thing looked like it might go really fast, provided it
could stay airborne. I discarded the idea as absurd, but apparently
you never know..
Oh, and I'm about as unsuited to being a fighter pilot as one can get.

Rob

[Dave Kearton]

"Rob van Riel" > wrote in message
om...
> (Gordon) wrote in message
>...
> > > (BTW after flying
> > >the 104 I always wondered how an F4 would go minus the outer wing
> > >panels and the CG readjusted.)
> > >Walt
> >
> > Walt, only a fighter jock thinks like that! :)
>
> Sorry, but no. I'm building a model F-4 at this time, and right now,
> only the lower part of the wings is attached to the fuselage. This
> part ends at the location of the folds, so the kit is an F-4 without
> the outer wing panels at the moment. Just yesterday, I found myself
> thinking the thing looked like it might go really fast, provided it
> could stay airborne. I discarded the idea as absurd, but apparently
> you never know..
> Oh, and I'm about as unsuited to being a fighter pilot as one can get.
>
> Rob



It's happened at least twice in front of a camera, somewhere on my hard
drive I have the pics to prove it.






Cheers


Dave Kearton