US Competition Rules

[[email protected]]

Hello Racers:
The rules for the 2010 racing season have been posted at SSA.org/
sailplane racing/rules&process.
New this year is that the appendix to the rules now contains diagrams
illustrating key concepts related to starts, finishes, safety
finishes, tasks and turnpoints. Careful review of these is highly
recommended, especially for pilots new to racing. Many thanks for John
Godfrey and John Seaborn for this useful addition.

Also new this year is the approval of the flyWithCE gps recorder for
use in competition. Pilots planning to use this recorder should
carefully read rules (and appendix notes for) 6.7.3.1 and 6.7.7.
Good luck to all and have a safe and FUN season.
For the Rules Committtee
UH
Chair

[John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]]

Also many thanks to Aland Adams for doing the technical development to
enable adding the diagrams.

[Junior Team 2007]

Great news! I think the recorder development will help many people get
into their first contest that can't justify a $1,000 logger for their
Ka-6 or 1-35.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 22, 2:15Â*pm, wrote:
> Hello Racers:
> The rules for the 2010 racing season have been posted at SSA.org/
> sailplane racing/rules&process.

Thanks for posting. I had a quick review of the changed FAI regional
rules and am very confused by this one:

"10.8.5.1.3 ‡ Maximum Start Height shall be specified and labeled as
MSL.."

MSH has always been the difference in elevation between the home
airport and the top of the start cylinder and 10.8.5.1 makes it clear
this has not changed. For a home airport with an elevation of 5,000
ft MSL and an MSH of 5,000ft the top of the start cylinder is 10,000
ft MSL.

Saying the MSH is 5000ft MSL is not valid. Saying the MSH is 10,000ft
MSL is not valid.

Statements that are valid are:

"Maximum Start Height is 5,000 ft."

"MSH is 5,000 ft"

"The top of the start cylinder is 10,000 ft MSL"

Why does the rule say "Maximum Start Height shall be specified and
labeled as MSL" ? It appears to be a meaningless statement that only
adds to the confusion of MSH definition.

How would MSH be specified under this rule for the scenario outlined
above?


Andy

[Brian[_1_]]

Andy,

Where are you getting your definition of MSH?

While this may have been clear to you it certianly wasn't clear to
everyone.

This rule just standardizes how we say it and makes sense in that the
MSH number you are given is the number you read on your Altimeter.

Perhaps I am missing an official definition of MSH, if so then the
rules may need to be fixed to be consistant.

Brian

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 22, 4:25*pm, Brian > wrote:
> Andy,
>
> Where are you getting your definition of MSH?

"10.8.5.1 >> Each task shall include a Maximum Start Height (MSH)
above the home field. This height shall not be less than 3500' AGL nor
more than 10000' AGL."

Note that MSH is defined as height above the home field, not an MSL
altitude.

For the new rule to make any sense the terminology "Maximum Start
HEIGHT" would need to be abandoned and a new term "Maximum Start
ALTITUDE" would need to be used in its place.

It would be proper and consistent to define Maximum Start Altitude as
10,000 ft MSL in my scenario above.

Andy

[T8]

On Feb 22, 6:48*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Feb 22, 4:25*pm, Brian > wrote:
>
> > Andy,
>
> > Where are you getting your definition of MSH?
>
> "10.8.5.1 >> Each task shall include a Maximum Start Height (MSH)
> above the home field. This height shall not be less than 3500' AGL nor
> more than 10000' AGL."
>
> Note that MSH is defined as height above the home field, not an MSL
> altitude.
>
> For the new rule to make any sense the terminology "Maximum Start
> HEIGHT" would need to be abandoned and a new term "Maximum Start
> ALTITUDE" would need to be used in its place.
>
> It would be proper and consistent to define Maximum Start Altitude as
> 10,000 ft MSL in my scenario above.
>
> Andy

I think the point of the new rule is that the CD shall give the pilots
the "MSH" as an MSL altitude. I.e. your task sheet says "10,000 MSL"

-T8

[Brian[_1_]]

On Feb 22, 4:48*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Feb 22, 4:25*pm, Brian > wrote:
>
> > Andy,
>
> > Where are you getting your definition of MSH?
>
> "10.8.5.1 >> Each task shall include a Maximum Start Height (MSH)
> above the home field. This height shall not be less than 3500' AGL nor
> more than 10000' AGL."
>
> Note that MSH is defined as height above the home field, not an MSL
> altitude.
>
> For the new rule to make any sense the terminology "Maximum Start
> HEIGHT" would need to be abandoned and a new term "Maximum Start
> ALTITUDE" would need to be used in its place.
>
> It would be proper and consistent to define Maximum Start Altitude as
> 10,000 ft MSL in my scenario above.
>
> Andy

Thanks Andy,

I looked at that rule as well, But it is not a definition of MSH it is
only guidence, actually a requirement of what the MSH altitude will
be with reference to the ground.

It makes sense to publish MSH number referenced to MSL, but there is
no way to write rule 10.8.5.1 with reference to MSL as each site is
obviously different.

Brian

[[email protected]]

On Feb 22, 7:57*pm, Brian > wrote:
> On Feb 22, 4:48*pm, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 4:25*pm, Brian > wrote:
>
> > > Andy,
>
> > > Where are you getting your definition of MSH?
>
> > "10.8.5.1 >> Each task shall include a Maximum Start Height (MSH)
> > above the home field. This height shall not be less than 3500' AGL nor
> > more than 10000' AGL."
>
> > Note that MSH is defined as height above the home field, not an MSL
> > altitude.
>
> > For the new rule to make any sense the terminology "Maximum Start
> > HEIGHT" would need to be abandoned and a new term "Maximum Start
> > ALTITUDE" would need to be used in its place.
>
> > It would be proper and consistent to define Maximum Start Altitude as
> > 10,000 ft MSL in my scenario above.
>
> > Andy
>
> Thanks Andy,
>
> I looked at that rule as well, But it is not a definition of MSH it is
> only guidence, actually a requirement of *what the MSH altitude will
> be with reference to the ground.
>
> It makes sense to publish MSH number referenced to MSL, but there is
> no way to write rule 10.8.5.1 *with reference to MSL as each site is
> obviously different.
>
> Brian- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There was a concious decision not to change MSH in rules as it also
then affects scoring equations and the scoring program.
We don't think the contestants will be confused, especially since they
now have "pictures". Hopefully it will also lead to fewer arithmetic
errors and associated penalties.
Ray Lovingood wins the prize for finding the hidden typo in 2:27. .
Now the rest of you can go nuts trying to find it.
Cheers
UH
UH

[John Cochrane]

Just to expand a little on UH...

The CD will decide on a start height -- 3500 or more AGL, 10,000 or
less AGL, 500 feet below the clouds or tops of dry thermals, thinking
about how long it takes late starters to climb, etc.

The CD will then do the heavy math to translate this height to MSL and
he'll announce a MSL start top with nice big even numbers. Now you
look at your MSL altimeter and know if you're over the top or not. No
more trying to decide if you're over or under 6342 feet MSL because
the airport was at 1342.

This should avoid addition mistakes (which I have made too), start
gates with weird MSL heights, endless radio calls to the advisers
asking MSL or AGL altitudes and so forth. It should also avoid
confusion we had last year with scorers and winscore getting confused
with each other over MSL/AGL

Same on finishing. The CD will decide a decent height for airport,
traffic, terrain, and announce a MSL height so it's easy and quick to
see if you're over or under.

John Cochrane BB

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 22, 7:28*pm, wrote:

> There was a conscious decision not to change MSH in rules as it also
> then affects scoring equations and the scoring program.


Ok, it was deliberate, but you didn't answer the question "How would
MSH be specified under this rule for the scenario outlined above? How
will MSH be specified as MSL without conflicting with the definition
of MSH?

What definition of top of start cylinder will be printed on the task
sheet under the new rule for the scenario I defined?

Some is us that found the MSH definition used for years to be
completely unambiguous now have to find a new understanding.




Andy

[Dave Nadler]

On Feb 22, 10:18*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> Just to expand a little on UH...
>
> The CD will decide on a start height -- 3500 or more AGL, 10,000 or
> less AGL, 500 feet below the clouds or tops of dry thermals, thinking
> about how long it takes late starters to climb, etc.
>
> The CD will then do the heavy math to translate this height to MSL and
> he'll announce a MSL start top with nice big even numbers. Now you
> look at your MSL altimeter and know if you're over the top or not. No
> more trying to decide if you're over or under 6342 feet MSL because
> the airport was at 1342.
>
> This should avoid addition mistakes (which I have made too), *start
> gates with weird MSL heights, endless radio calls to the advisers
> asking MSL or AGL altitudes and so forth. It should also avoid
> confusion we had last year with scorers and winscore getting confused
> with each other over MSL/AGL
>
> Same on finishing. The CD will decide a decent height for airport,
> traffic, terrain, and announce a MSL height so it's easy and quick to
> see if you're over or under.
>
> John Cochrane BB

Much better, Thanks !
Now if we can figure out how to avoid the pile-up just below
the top of the start cylinder...

Thanks again,
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 22, 8:18*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> Just to expand a little on UH...
>
> The CD will decide on a start height -- 3500 or more AGL, 10,000 or
> less AGL, 500 feet below the clouds or tops of dry thermals, thinking
> about how long it takes late starters to climb, etc.
>
> The CD will then do the heavy math to translate this height to MSL and
> he'll announce a MSL start top with nice big even numbers. Now you
> look at your MSL altimeter and know if you're over the top or not. No
> more trying to decide if you're over or under 6342 feet MSL because
> the airport was at 1342.
>
> This should avoid addition mistakes (which I have made too), *start
> gates with weird MSL heights, endless radio calls to the advisers
> asking MSL or AGL altitudes and so forth. It should also avoid
> confusion we had last year with scorers and winscore getting confused
> with each other over MSL/AGL
>
> Same on finishing. The CD will decide a decent height for airport,
> traffic, terrain, and announce a MSL height so it's easy and quick to
> see if you're over or under.
>
> John Cochrane BB

All well and good but rule 10.8.5.1.3 should then read "The Top of the
start cylinder shall be specified and labeled as MSL."

This avoids the conflict with the definition of MSH and removes the
considerable confusion caused by the conflicting rules, especially for
those that didn't find the old rules confusing at all.

Please don't add to the confusion by mixing the terms height and
altitude. I hope the CD, under the new rules, will announce a maximum
start altitude and a minimum finish altitude. Use the term height and
the confusion starts all over again.

Andy

[John Seaborn[_2_]]

Andy for Rules Committtee!

[kirk.stant]

I have to agree with Andy - Height and Altitude are different animals!

I also agree with the intent of the change, since it always seemed
absurd to specify a start height, with the resulting "Math in the
Cockpit" nightmare - especially when flying at a new constest site.

At the risk of adding more complication, perhaps we need to add some
new terms/definitions:

Maximum Start Altitude (MSA): Maximum Start Height (MSH), as set by
the CD, adjusted for start point elevation. This is the number given
to the contest pilots during the task briefing. It is an altitude -
you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.

Minimum Finish Altitude (MFA): Minimum Finish Height (MFH), as set by
the CD, adjusted for finish point elevation. This is the number given
to the contest pilots during the task briefing. It is an altitude -
you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.

Yeah, I know, more rules - but the devil is in the details, as usual.

Cheers,

Kirk
66

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

> There was a concious decision not to change MSH in rules as it also
> then affects scoring equations and the scoring program.

Too late, the scoring program is already affected. Given the obvious
confusion this issue generates, the user interface of the scoring
program will have to be changed to clearly indicate to the scorer
which altitude is to be entered.

Guy Byars

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 8:47*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> I have to agree with Andy - Height and Altitude are different animals!
>
> I also agree with the intent of the change, since it always seemed
> absurd to specify a start height, with the resulting "Math in the
> Cockpit" nightmare - especially when flying at a new constest site.
>
> At the risk of adding more complication, perhaps we need to add some
> new terms/definitions:
>
> Maximum Start Altitude (MSA): *Maximum Start Height (MSH), as set by
> the CD, adjusted for start point elevation. *This is the number given
> to the contest pilots during the task briefing. *It is an altitude -
> you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.
>
> Minimum Finish Altitude (MFA): *Minimum Finish Height (MFH), as set by
> the CD, adjusted for finish point elevation. This is the number given
> to the contest pilots during the task briefing. *It is an altitude -
> you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.
>
> Yeah, I know, more rules - but the devil is in the details, as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kirk
> 66

We will revisit the language in the next rules cycle.
Rules for 2010 are complete and approved.
Cheers
UH

[HL Falbaum[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:47 am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> I have to agree with Andy - Height and Altitude are different animals!
>
> I also agree with the intent of the change, since it always seemed
> absurd to specify a start height, with the resulting "Math in the
> Cockpit" nightmare - especially when flying at a new constest site.
>
> At the risk of adding more complication, perhaps we need to add some
> new terms/definitions:
>
> Maximum Start Altitude (MSA): Maximum Start Height (MSH), as set by
> the CD, adjusted for start point elevation. This is the number given
> to the contest pilots during the task briefing. It is an altitude -
> you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.
>
> Minimum Finish Altitude (MFA): Minimum Finish Height (MFH), as set by
> the CD, adjusted for finish point elevation. This is the number given
> to the contest pilots during the task briefing. It is an altitude -
> you read it off your altimeter, set to local QNH.
>
> Yeah, I know, more rules - but the devil is in the details, as usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kirk
> 66

We will revisit the language in the next rules cycle.
Rules for 2010 are complete and approved.
Cheers
UH

I like the change! Makes life simpler. Thanks.

Hartley Falbaum
"KF" USA

[Pat Russell[_2_]]

> Too late, the scoring program is already affected.

Sorry to hear that. I'm so old I remember when the programmer was in
charge of the program, not the other way round.

[kirk.stant]

Thanks to all you guys working on the rules - a thankless job at best!

Good luck on the grid this year!

Kirk
66