More Glide Nav 2 questions - Need technical advice

[Scott Alexander[_2_]]

I have a cambridge 302 with Glide Navigator 2. I am downloading my
turnpoints from the worldwide turnpoint exchange using these steps 1.
files formatted for downloading and importing ---> 2. Soaring
Innovations Glide Navigator 2


Question 1:
Is there a way to make the turnpoints in alphabetical order as this
would be more user friendly for normal flying?

Question 2:
When I use the GPS it just shows the number next to the green airport
icon, but does not show the name on the moving map.

Question 3:
How do I enter a specific landout spot, for instance a big open field,
that is not listed as a turnpoint or control point? It would be nice
to use the gps to navigate to these type of spots.


Any advice is always greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Scott

[Paul Remde]

Hi Scott,

Please see my notes below.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Scott Alexander" > wrote in message
...
>I have a cambridge 302 with Glide Navigator 2. I am downloading my
> turnpoints from the worldwide turnpoint exchange using these steps 1.
> files formatted for downloading and importing ---> 2. Soaring
> Innovations Glide Navigator 2
>
>
> Question 1:
> Is there a way to make the turnpoints in alphabetical order as this
> would be more user friendly for normal flying?

*** I'm surprised the files from the soaring turnpoint exchange aren't
already in alphabetical order. There are several ways to fix that. It
would be possible to re-sort using Excel, but that is for slightly advanced
Excel users only. The other option is to open the file in SeeYou or
StrePla, re-sort the file and re-export the file. I can walk you through
that over the phone. It is also documented in one of my SeeYou training
videos (video #29) here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/training.htm#Training-SeeYou

>
> Question 2:
> When I use the GPS it just shows the number next to the green airport
> icon, but does not show the name on the moving map.

*** In GN II, go to Menu / Menu 3 (or 4) Display Options and select how you
want the waypoint names to display. I usually select "first 5 characters"
for waypoints and "first 5 characters and numbers" for contest turnpoints.
>
> Question 3:
> How do I enter a specific landout spot, for instance a big open field,
> that is not listed as a turnpoint or control point? It would be nice
> to use the gps to navigate to these type of spots.

*** You would need to edit the waypoint file on your PC using Notepad.
It's a simple text file.
>
>
> Any advice is always greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
> Scott

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 8, 11:01*am, Scott Alexander >
wrote:

Scott,

There are 3 file formats available from TP exchange for use with Glide
Nav, the difference is in the TP name format.

1. name only
2. name includes number in front
3. Name includes number at end

Take a look at each file and pick the format you like. Then select
the appropriate display option in GNII. You can chose number only,
name only, number and name (check both), or first 5 characters of
name. It's a trade off between information and clutter

My preference is to use the file with name only (no appended number)
and Show first 5. This identifies map objects with the first 5
characters of the name but uses number and name in the task and active
waypoint windows and also in the turnpoint list and task edit
windows. Also touching any map point gives name and number as well as
supporting info.

As Paul pointed out it's just a text file so you can sort the points
in another order and number them anyway you like. However for contest
use the number is usually primary so it woud be best to keep the
number sequence defined by the organizers. (unless you want to be
really, really, confused)

Not sure what you want to do in Q3 but you can use the MARK POINT
feature to designate any overflown point for future reference. I use
it for temporary marking of thermals and landing sites.


Andy

[Scott Alexander[_2_]]

Paul & Andy - that answers alot....thank you very much!

Andy, regarding Q3:

At the R4S contest, there were some people who drove in and gave the
GPS coordinates for a nice big open field to land it. I would have
loved to entered this into my GPS so I could see it on the moving
map. But, I had no idea who to do that, so throughout that primarly
unlandable area....I just flew as high as I could without taking
chances. I could have pushed the limit a little harder with that
specific knowledge of where the field was. The GPS could have pointed
me to an exact heading, and an exact distance.

Maybe there's a way to enter this into Glide Nav 2 easily?

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 8, 3:17*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> Maybe there's a way to enter this into Glide Nav 2 easily?

The only way I know is to append it to a turnpoint file. GNII will
allow multiple TP files to be used at the same time. Rather than edit
the official contest file which could be subsequently updated by the
organizers, I'd suggest creating your own file in the same format and
adding your own landables to that file. Suggest you start with a
known good file.dat, add the new data in the same format, then delete
the original data. You can use the PDA editor to do this but I find it
easier to transfer the CF (or SD) card to a PC and do the edits
there.

Be sure to use the correct designation and altitude for the landable
points if you want to get valid glide data.

Andy

[T8]

On Mar 8, 5:52*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Mar 8, 3:17*pm, Scott Alexander >
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe there's a way to enter this into Glide Nav 2 easily?
>
> The only way I know is to append it to a turnpoint file. *GNII will
> allow multiple TP files to be used at the same time. Rather than edit
> the official contest file which could be subsequently updated by the
> organizers, I'd suggest creating your own file in the same format and
> adding your own landables to that file. *Suggest you start with a
> known good file.dat, add the new data in the same format, then delete
> the original data. You can use the PDA editor to do this but I find it
> easier to transfer the CF *(or SD) card to *a PC and do the edits
> there.
>
> Be sure to use the correct designation and altitude for the landable
> points if you want to get valid glide data.
>
> Andy

best practice: add new waypoints in SeeYou on a laptop, then d/l new
file to your Nav devices. there are certainly other ways to
accomplish the same task, but this is the one that catches and
corrects most potential problems. Obviously, this is something you
practice in the off season ;-).

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[rlovinggood]

Scott, I hope you won't mind much if I also ask a Glide Navigator II
question:

How do you set it up to glide around two points?


Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[rlovinggood]

On Mar 8, 8:49*pm, rlovinggood > wrote:
> Scott, I hope you won't mind much if I also ask a Glide Navigator II
> question:
>
> How do you set it up to glide around two points?
>
> Thanks,
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Uh, let me correct that: Glide around ONE point.

Thanks,
Ray
(Don't think the LS1 has quite enough L/D to make a glide around TWO
points in the area where I fly...)

[Paul Remde]

Hi Ray,

Enter a task into GN II. Start flying the task. While navigating to a any
turnpoint in the task - touch the name of the active waypoint to pop-up the
list of turnpoints in the task. When the list is visible you will also see
a button on the right side of the screen labeled "To Finish". Most people
don't notice that button is there. It is only visible when the task list is
"popped-up". If you press the "To Finish" button the active waypoint window
will then show "Glide To Finish". GN II will still be navigating to the
turnpoint you were previously navigating to (a line is drawn from your
current location to the turnpoint - not to the finish), but the final glide
number will be from your current location, around all the remaining
turnpoints to the finish. If you find that you still need a lot of altitude
and want to again see the final glide to the turnpoint you are navigating
to, then touch the active waypoint button to pop up the turnpoint list and
select the turnpoint you are navigating to. It really is very intuitive -
once you notice the "To Finish" button and know what it does.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"rlovinggood" > wrote in message
...
> Scott, I hope you won't mind much if I also ask a Glide Navigator II
> question:
>
> How do you set it up to glide around two points?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[rlovinggood]

Thanks Paul,

I thought "To Finish" in that application meant to head for Finish at
that time, thus bypassing any remaining turnpoints. That would be as
in a MAT when you have decided you've flown all the turn points you
can, and you're not going to attempt others, and you want to head
home.

I hope I can try this out soon!

Ray

[John Cochrane]

On Mar 9, 6:43*am, rlovinggood > wrote:
> Thanks Paul,
>
> I thought "To Finish" in that application meant to head for Finish at
> that time, thus bypassing any remaining turnpoints. *That would be as
> in a MAT when you have decided you've flown all the turn points you
> can, and you're not going to attempt others, and you want to head
> home.
>
> I hope I can try this out soon!
>
> Ray

Be careful here, however. To display "glide to finish", GNII needs to
understand exactly which turnpoints you've been to, and which ones you
still have to complete. If -- as we always do -- you punch in a few
alternatives as you end a MAT, trying to figure out a sequence which
will use up the available time, it is very easy for GNII to get
confused, and not know which turnpoints have been completed and yet to
go. If you punch in a few "glide to" options on the way, that can also
confuse it as GNII sometimes uses that as a signal that you have
indeed rounded a last turnpoint.. For example, suppose you're flying
over A on the way to turnpoint B, and A is the turnpoint following B.
You get low and wonder if you can make it back to A so you punch
"glide to A" as a landpoint. This tells GNII that you turned B, even
though you haven't.

Alas GNII does not (yet!) have a manual override on which turnpoints
have/have not been reached, so sometimes the only solution is to kill
the whole task, and then start a new one, with only the remaining
turnpoints.

John Cochrane

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 9, 9:22*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> If you punch in a few "glide to" options on the way, that can also
> confuse it ..

Yes, concur with John.

GNII "show task" data can get totally screwed up if you do any
intermediate safety glide selections. This really detracts from the
utility of GNII for area task predictions.

I have learned to only select a safety glide if I'm really going to
have to use it. To keep awareness of my safety glide options I
monitor the map icons and tap the points that I think I may use for a
safety glide to see how much margin I have.

To extend the cautions on GNII - be very careful of how it estimates
task completion times, particularly for an out and return area task
with a strong tail wind on the first leg.

I have become tired of the bugs in GNII and the lack of support for
the product and am evaluating a different system this season. It's
unfortunate that the "dog ate the compiler" since GNII was designed by
a contest pilot for contest pilots and I have not found another system
that rivals the touch screen user interface.


Andy

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andy,

Actually, there is hope for GN II yet. A new group of developers is making
some progress on the software now. Hopefully there will be a new release in
the next few months.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Andy" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 9:22 am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> If you punch in a few "glide to" options on the way, that can also
> confuse it ..

Yes, concur with John.

GNII "show task" data can get totally screwed up if you do any
intermediate safety glide selections. This really detracts from the
utility of GNII for area task predictions.

I have learned to only select a safety glide if I'm really going to
have to use it. To keep awareness of my safety glide options I
monitor the map icons and tap the points that I think I may use for a
safety glide to see how much margin I have.

To extend the cautions on GNII - be very careful of how it estimates
task completion times, particularly for an out and return area task
with a strong tail wind on the first leg.

I have become tired of the bugs in GNII and the lack of support for
the product and am evaluating a different system this season. It's
unfortunate that the "dog ate the compiler" since GNII was designed by
a contest pilot for contest pilots and I have not found another system
that rivals the touch screen user interface.


Andy

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 9, 1:56*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Actually, there is hope for GN II yet. *A new group of developers is making
> some progress on the software now. *Hopefully there will be a new release in
> the next few months.

Would there be any point in my digging through all my old emails to
Chip and sending you a list of all the bugs and product improvements
that I have identified in the past?

Andy

[TRKA]

I think you would love to use the freeware Tactical glide computer
programm LK8000

In a few days or weeks the 1.20 version will be released.
It runs perfectly on PC/PPC2002/PPC2003/WM5/WM6... portrait or
landscape mode
I can say as a beta tester it is a great piece of software. Stable!
Fast! With great features, who are all very well tested.

[TRKA]

www.lk8000.org

On 10 Mrz., 09:47, TRKA > wrote:
> I think you would love to use the freeware Tactical glide computer
> programm LK8000
>
> In a few days or weeks the 1.20 version will be released.
> It runs perfectly on PC/PPC2002/PPC2003/WM5/WM6... portrait or
> landscape mode
> I can say as a beta tester it is a great piece of software. Stable!
> Fast! With great features, who are all very well tested.

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andy,

That would be great! I requested suggestions for improvements in my last
e-mail newsletter.

Thanks,

Paul Remde

"Andy" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 1:56 pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Actually, there is hope for GN II yet. A new group of developers is making
> some progress on the software now. Hopefully there will be a new release
> in
> the next few months.

Would there be any point in my digging through all my old emails to
Chip and sending you a list of all the bugs and product improvements
that I have identified in the past?

Andy

[noel.wade]

Not to hijack the thread, but again - for those seeking a free
alternative I humbly suggest XCSoar. Its super-customizable, does
just about everything that SeeYou does, and works well for tasking (at
least, for the badges and the 2 contests I've flown so far).

--Noel

[noel.wade]

Update: After looking at the LK8000 screenshots, it is obvious that
it is some kind of customized / enhanced system based on the XCSoar
code (same user interface).

--Noel

[TRKA]

On 10 Mrz., 18:13, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> Update: *After looking at the LK8000 screenshots, it is obvious that
> it is some kind of customized / enhanced system based on the XCSoar
> code (same user interface).
>
> --Noel

Yes LK8000 is a fork from XCSoar. Paolo did the 5.2.4 PNA XCSoar
Version and then developed his own free LK8000
I can say as a beta tester. XCSoar is full of really bad bugs. It
crashes often. It calculates wrong! Paolo bugfixed hundreds of real
heavy bugs. Now LK8000 is nearly ready do rollout, but we want to test
it even more.
So highly not recommend XCSoar. I really could be dangerous to trust
wrong calculations. Sorry to say but its the truth.
We are often not understand how this bad bugs could stay in XCSoar so
long and no one noticed them. No one really tested it?

[TRKA]

On 11 Mrz., 10:55, TRKA > wrote:
> On 10 Mrz., 18:13, "noel.wade" > wrote:
>
> > Update: *After looking at the LK8000 screenshots, it is obvious that
> > it is some kind of customized / enhanced system based on the XCSoar


And it has a real new interface which works very very great.
See video www.bware.it/xcsoar

[noel.wade]

On Mar 11, 1:55*am, TRKA > wrote:
>
> So highly not recommend XCSoar. I really could be dangerous to trust
> wrong calculations. Sorry to say but its the truth.
> We are often not understand how this bad bugs could stay in XCSoar so
> long and no one noticed them. No one really tested it?

There are bugs in every soaring program. There's no need to do any
fear-mongering about XCSoar. It is being used by thousands of pilots
(including myself in several contests); and no one's falling out of
the sky because of the program.

I look forward to trying the LK8000 system.

--Noel