B-17

[B.C. MALLAM]

Watched Memphis Belle again, anyone know how they kept from shooting each
other in those formations?

[JDupre5762]

>Watched Memphis Belle again, anyone know how they kept from shooting each
>other in those formations?

Formation discipline, firing discipline and aircraft recognition training.

The formations were supposed to be designed to give each gun a good field of
fire without infringing on the other aircraft in the formation but the guns
could traverse and elevate so that it was possible for friendly fire accidents
to happen and they were not uncommon. The guy firing was supposed to know when
to ease up as other friendly aircraft came into view or range. A few stray .50
caliber rounds were not nearly the threat that 20 mm and 30mm cannon shells
were.

John Dupre'

[Krztalizer]

>
>Watched Memphis Belle again, anyone know how they kept from shooting each
>other in those formations?

I've read official unit histories where deaths are noted among aircrews as
being caused by .50s. More than one B-17 was lost when the pilots were hit in
this manner - one gruesome story was a radioman that suddenly felt his ship
begin to nose over, without any call from the flightdeck. He ran forward and
found the copilot frozen in horror and the pilot decapitated beside him, victim
of a .50 shot to the side of the head (they weren't in combat at the time, the
other ships in the formation were just testing guns). After repeated attempts
to pull the copilot away from his seat, the radioman rang the bailout bell and
the rest of the crew began their escape, but the copilot never budged and rode
the almost completely undamaged aircraft all the way down.

In a formation with thousands of gunners, shooting from wobbly, jerking
platforms moving in 3D, at targets also moving in 3D, there is simply no way to
keep all the bullets away from the other friendlies.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[Jack & Bev Biagini]

I remember and old salty chief tell about when he was in his first squadron,
at the start on the "Big War". He was on one of the side blisters on a PBY,
doing gunnery practice on a flock of Sea Gulls. He followed one right into
the Port float.When they landed, the squadron Chief got him a new float and
told him that he would be spending the weekend putting it on by himself. He
said that it took him most of the weekend to get the job done, Involved a
lot of shimming and running back and forth. On the bright side, he says that
he never shot another one!

Jack

Old Fart Rotorhead

[mah]

> v/r
> Gordon
> <====(A+C====>
> USN SAR
>
> Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
> reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

Gordon,

I love your sentiment. I've got a couple of museums as clients and they
are working hard to get oral histories of veterans. They can only
accept so many artifacts so those with a detailed history are
intrinsicly more valuable. "This is dad's uniform and he served in the
Marines during the Chosin withdrawl" is more valuable than a 1950's
Marine uniform.

Anyone interested in getting into veteran's registries please contact
me. No, not associated with AWL. The group I'm working with closely is
preserving the history of the 5 Sullivan brothers.

MAH

[Krztalizer]

> I've got a couple of museums as clients and they
>are working hard to get oral histories of veterans. They can only
>accept so many artifacts so those with a detailed history are
>intrinsicly more valuable.

Our museum has hundreds of thousands of originaly photos, but we still manage
to surprise ourselves on occasion - today, I found a 5x7 of an odd little
biplane with a mid-1920s date stamp and the name "Plywood Special". The
indistinct pilot was just warming the lil thing up to go for a flight.

I handed the photo to the man that painstakingly digitizes the never ending
stream of photos that get donated to us, and his jaw went slack - only a week
ago, he had found and scanned a photo of the same aircraft, fifteen minutes
later, after Charles Lindbergh crashed it! We compared the miniature US flag
stuck in the wing brace wires and its a match; a previously unknown photo of
our man Chas, just before he earned admittance to the Caterpiller Club.

> "This is dad's uniform and he served in the
>Marines during the Chosin withdrawl" is more valuable than a 1950's
>Marine uniform.

What I hate is that every Luftwaffe hat becomes "Adolf Gallands" and every
brown pair of riding boots gets claimed to have been Rommels. That part gets
old..

>Anyone interested in getting into veteran's registries please contact
>me. No, not associated with AWL.

Good! Obviously :)

> The group I'm working with closely is
>preserving the history of the 5 Sullivan brothers.
>

Good on you. Five true heroes from America's past - definitely worth
preserving.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[dougdrivr]

Just saw an interesting photo in a B-24 book that I had not seen before. On
the bottom half of the twin vertical stabilizers (plainly visible from the
waist gun positions) the squadron CO had stenciled " SHOOT HERE FOR HALF
PAY".

JK


"Jack & Bev Biagini" > wrote in message
...
> I remember and old salty chief tell about when he was in his first
squadron,
> at the start on the "Big War". He was on one of the side blisters on a
PBY,
> doing gunnery practice on a flock of Sea Gulls. He followed one right into
> the Port float.When they landed, the squadron Chief got him a new float
and
> told him that he would be spending the weekend putting it on by himself.
He
> said that it took him most of the weekend to get the job done, Involved a
> lot of shimming and running back and forth. On the bright side, he says
that
> he never shot another one!
>
> Jack
>
> Old Fart Rotorhead
>
>

[Tex Houston]

"dougdrivr" > wrote in message
...
> Just saw an interesting photo in a B-24 book that I had not seen before.
On
> the bottom half of the twin vertical stabilizers (plainly visible from the
> waist gun positions) the squadron CO had stenciled " SHOOT HERE FOR HALF
> PAY".
>
> JK

Was mentioned here or in RAM just the other day. Resulted from careless
gunnery damage.

Tex