♥Ari ♥
March 27th 10, 09:19 PM
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 12:40:52 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
> In article >,
> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:57:03 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:27:50 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:37:34 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:35:33 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
>>>>>>>>> terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat
>>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>> such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's
>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>> I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
>>>>>>>>> hide it from him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You got to be ****ting me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
>>>>>>>> haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
>>>>>>>> meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
>>>>>>> suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
>>>>>>> he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
>>>>>>> Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
>>>>>>> Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
>>>>>>> the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and
>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>> some strong perverse incentives in the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
>>>>>> state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
>>>>>> and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
>>>>>> depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
>>>>>> yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
>>>>>
>>>>> This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
>>>>> going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
>>>>> it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
>>>>> those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
>>>>> wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
>>>>> depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
>>>>> prescription, and loses his medical.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
>>>>>>> won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
>>>>>>> blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
>>>>>>> them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
>>>>>>> for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
>>>>>> prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
>>>>>> like airplanes stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not the mental health issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
>>>>> listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
>>>>> There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
>>>>> concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
>>>>> common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
>>>>> millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
>>>>> operating heavy machinery such as cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
>>>>> regardless of what they are:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
>>>>> doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
>>>>> wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
>>>>> question rather than having a blanket ban?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
>>>> and see if they are capable of each and every...
>>>>
>>>> Are you a Mx clone?
>>>
>>> We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
>>> surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
>>> disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
>>> whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
>>> it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
>>
>> Mike, I'd tell you but I doubt your brain would accept the answer.
>
> Yes, why engage in a discussion when you can just throw insults around?
>
> I'm trying to remember why I stay subscribed to this group, and am not
> coming up with any answers....
There ya' go. You can't answer your own known issues, why would you
expect me to argue in circles with you about things you know little to
nothing about?
That what MxTheIgnoramus is for.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
> In article >,
> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:57:03 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:27:50 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:37:34 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>> U?Ari U? > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:35:33 -0400, Mike Ash wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
>>>>>>>>> terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat
>>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>> such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's
>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>> I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
>>>>>>>>> hide it from him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You got to be ****ting me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
>>>>>>>> haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
>>>>>>>> meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
>>>>>>> suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
>>>>>>> he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
>>>>>>> Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
>>>>>>> Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
>>>>>>> the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and
>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>> some strong perverse incentives in the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
>>>>>> state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
>>>>>> and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
>>>>>> depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
>>>>>> yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
>>>>>
>>>>> This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
>>>>> going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
>>>>> it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
>>>>> those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
>>>>> wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
>>>>> depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
>>>>> prescription, and loses his medical.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
>>>>>>> won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
>>>>>>> blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
>>>>>>> them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
>>>>>>> for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
>>>>>> prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
>>>>>> like airplanes stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not the mental health issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
>>>>> listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
>>>>> There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
>>>>> concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
>>>>> common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
>>>>> millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
>>>>> operating heavy machinery such as cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
>>>>> regardless of what they are:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
>>>>> doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
>>>>> wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
>>>>> question rather than having a blanket ban?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
>>>> and see if they are capable of each and every...
>>>>
>>>> Are you a Mx clone?
>>>
>>> We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
>>> surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
>>> disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
>>> whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
>>> it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
>>
>> Mike, I'd tell you but I doubt your brain would accept the answer.
>
> Yes, why engage in a discussion when you can just throw insults around?
>
> I'm trying to remember why I stay subscribed to this group, and am not
> coming up with any answers....
There ya' go. You can't answer your own known issues, why would you
expect me to argue in circles with you about things you know little to
nothing about?
That what MxTheIgnoramus is for.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !