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View Full Version : Stop Loss (Not specifically a NAVAIR issue but will seriously affect it)


Bill Kambic
February 17th 04, 10:16 PM
Got this from MOA today:

> Issue 3: Stop-Loss: The New Draft
>
> The more we think about the Defense Department's plan to meet wartime
> requirements for the next few years, the more concerned we get.
>
> The plan is to increase Army manning by 30,000 for the next few years.
> But that won't be accomplished through additional recruiting, as most of
> us tend to think when we hear those words. It will be accomplished mainly
> by barring current members from leaving when their terms of service are up
> - a policy known as "stop-loss." The plan is to keep stop-loss in place
> through 2005, for thousands of active duty, Guard and Reserve troops.
>
> It's hard to see that as anything other than a reinstitution of the draft,
> imposed in the most ironic way possible. The only people being drafted
> are those who have already volunteered to serve in the first place. Many
> have already seen combat or hazardous duty in Africa, the Balkans,
> Afghanistan, and/or Iraq. Now their end-of-tour separations are being
> denied so they can be forced to fill manpower shortages and deploy again.
>
> The Defense Department is trying to put a good face on it, saying it will
> meet wartime needs through "increased retention" rather than increased
> recruiting. If stop-loss is being euphemized that way, somebody's kidding
> himself. You can't keep stop-loss in place for extended periods without
> risking negative retention consequences for the longer term.
>
> Don't get us wrong. Sometimes stop-loss is the only way to meet the
> national defense mission. But prudent planners know it should be a
> short-term tool, not an extended policy. It means that somebody didn't
> plan very well.
>
> The planning deficiency didn't start with current leadership. We should
> have started recruiting for a bigger force years ago, because the troops
> have been overstressed for more than a decade. But the fact that it
> hasn't been done yet is no excuse to keep putting it off.
>
> Is anybody thinking about the situation this process is creating for
> whoever is leading the Defense Department and the Services two years
> downstream? When the stop-loss policy ends, does anyone think there won't
> be a disproportional wave of "negative retention"? If we need a larger
> force for years to come - and everybody knows we do - prudent planning
> would seem to dictate that increased recruiting has to be part of the
> solution.
>
> We don't think the need is lost on military leaders. They're doing their
> utmost to find the best solution to a huge manpower challenge within the
> "transformation" limits imposed upon them by politicians and political
> appointees. But there's also a limit to how much reality can be ignored,
> and a limit to the risks we should accept in planning military force
> levels needed to defend the country.
>
> Remember, "Help is on the way"? We never thought it meant just another
> helping of sacrifice heaped on those who have already borne their fair
> share of the battle.


--
Bill Kambic

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

Ogden Johnson III
February 17th 04, 11:37 PM
"Bill Kambic" > wrote:

>Got this from MOA today:
>
>> Issue 3: Stop-Loss: The New Draft
[Snip]

Who is MOA, and why should I believe any of the apparent
telepathy they use to discern DoD's plans and intentions^W evil
intentions^W^W evil and nefarious intentions[TM-alt.conspiracy]
than that of any other group or columnist that apparently uses
telepathy to discern DoD's plans and evil and nefarious
intentions?
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

Bill Kambic
February 18th 04, 12:14 AM
Sorry I left an "a" off.

It's a lobbying group. Or a "special interest" group, if that better
serves.

Go to http://www.moaa.org/ for some additional answers.

I have been able to discern the nefarious intentions of DoD since I was a
pup!<g>

Bill Kambic

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

"Ogden Johnson III" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Kambic" > wrote:
>
> >Got this from MOA today:
> >
> >> Issue 3: Stop-Loss: The New Draft
> [Snip]
>
> Who is MOA, and why should I believe any of the apparent
> telepathy they use to discern DoD's plans and intentions^W evil
> intentions^W^W evil and nefarious intentions[TM-alt.conspiracy]
> than that of any other group or columnist that apparently uses
> telepathy to discern DoD's plans and evil and nefarious
> intentions?
> --
> OJ III
> [Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

Ogden Johnson III
February 18th 04, 12:25 AM
"Bill Kambic" > wrote:

>Sorry I left an "a" off.
>
>It's a lobbying group. Or a "special interest" group, if that better
>serves.
>
>Go to http://www.moaa.org/ for some additional answers.

Did. Sounds a lot like that NCOA(?) bunch that a) turned out to
be pretty much solely devoted to selling insurance to its
members, and b) had several officers [corporate, not military]
embezzling the proceeds from that insurance.

Talk about evil and nefarious intentions. ;->

>If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or

What he said.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

John R Weiss
February 18th 04, 12:34 AM
"Bill Kambic" > wrote...
> Got this from MOA today:
>
>> Issue 3: Stop-Loss: The New Draft
>>
>> The more we think about the Defense Department's plan to meet wartime
>> requirements for the next few years, the more concerned we get.
>>
>> The plan is to increase Army manning by 30,000 for the next few years.
>> But that won't be accomplished through additional recruiting, as most of
>> us tend to think when we hear those words. It will be accomplished mainly
>> by barring current members from leaving when their terms of service are up
>> - a policy known as "stop-loss." The plan is to keep stop-loss in place
>> through 2005, for thousands of active duty, Guard and Reserve troops.

That is totally absurd -- though totally representative of our current political
climate!

Stop Loss is probably a valid weapon to use when a crisis BEGINS, and manning
cannot be increased sufficiently, soon enough. However, the current "crisis"
started over 2 years ago, and there has been ample time for the personnel
[mis]management people to see the stark reality, notice that the Reserves and
Guard would not be able to sustain their augmentation rates forever, and start
to re-man the active forces.

If DoD decides to use Stop Loss as a continuous personnel mismanagement tool,
not only NAVAIR will be adversely affected, but the entire recruiting system! --
"Uh, yes, your enlistment term is 4 years, but the Army reserves the right to
keep you in forever if we can't get another sucker to volunteer for a life
term..."

Bob McKellar
February 18th 04, 12:44 AM
John R Weiss wrote:

> "Bill Kambic" > wrote...
> > Got this from MOA today:
> >
> >> Issue 3: Stop-Loss: The New Draft
> >>
> >> The more we think about the Defense Department's plan to meet wartime
> >> requirements for the next few years, the more concerned we get.
> >>
> >> The plan is to increase Army manning by 30,000 for the next few years.
> >> But that won't be accomplished through additional recruiting, as most of
> >> us tend to think when we hear those words. It will be accomplished mainly
> >> by barring current members from leaving when their terms of service are up
> >> - a policy known as "stop-loss." The plan is to keep stop-loss in place
> >> through 2005, for thousands of active duty, Guard and Reserve troops.
>
> That is totally absurd -- though totally representative of our current political
> climate!
>
> Stop Loss is probably a valid weapon to use when a crisis BEGINS, and manning
> cannot be increased sufficiently, soon enough. However, the current "crisis"
> started over 2 years ago, and there has been ample time for the personnel
> [mis]management people to see the stark reality, notice that the Reserves and
> Guard would not be able to sustain their augmentation rates forever, and start
> to re-man the active forces.
>
> If DoD decides to use Stop Loss as a continuous personnel mismanagement tool,
> not only NAVAIR will be adversely affected, but the entire recruiting system! --
> "Uh, yes, your enlistment term is 4 years, but the Army reserves the right to
> keep you in forever if we can't get another sucker to volunteer for a life
> term..."

I think the current bipartisan planning horizon ends at November 2, 2004.

Then:

If "they" have the conn, we'll watch and complain.

If "we" have the conn, we'll worry about it then.

This applies for multiple different values of "we" and "they".

"The buck don't even slow down here!"

Bob McKellar

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