Phoenix AIM-54A (QUESTION)

[Krztalizer]

>
>To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
>Phoenix Air to Air Missile?

Do you understand why the exact answer might be classified?

[fudog50]

tenth of a mile? thats about a hundred yards! what the heck does that
matter? you gonna try and defense a supersonic missle with a hundred
yards to spare? what the heck are you thinking about??


On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:11:24 -0800, eXistenZ >
wrote:

>Anyone who knows the answer to this Question Please help me in any way
>possible,.
>
>To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
>Phoenix Air to Air Missile?
>
>most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
>while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.
>
>but my friend here claims it is over 200 Nautical miles
>Does anyone know the most accurate answer to this question to the
>nearest tenth of a mile?
>
>Thanks - The Drake

[John Keeney]

"eXistenZ" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone who knows the answer to this Question Please help me in any way
> possible,.
>
> To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
> Phoenix Air to Air Missile?
>
> most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
> while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.
>
> but my friend here claims it is over 200 Nautical miles
> Does anyone know the most accurate answer to this question to the
> nearest tenth of a mile?

Here comes the "if I told you, I'ld have to kill you jokes" and the
"that's classified and why do you want to know ya' dang spy"


Besides, the nearest tenth would depend very heavily on the exact
engagement parameters: height, speed & course of both the
F-14 and the target. Heck, probably on which particular AIM-54A
and quite possibly which TomCat.

Hmm, I suspect a valid shot solution on a space shuttle coming in
for a landing would depend on the max range setting on the radar:
big RCS, unmanuverable, coming closer really fast but slowing down
to a manageable closing rate for end game.

[eXistenZ]

Anyone who knows the answer to this Question Please help me in any way
possible,.

To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
Phoenix Air to Air Missile?

most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.

but my friend here claims it is over 200 Nautical miles
Does anyone know the most accurate answer to this question to the
nearest tenth of a mile?

Thanks - The Drake

[Andrew C. Toppan]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:11:24 -0800, eXistenZ >
wrote:

>To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
>Phoenix Air to Air Missile?

Oh please....the answer is obviously classified. It's also variable,
depending on a number of environmental factors.

>most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
>while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.
>but my friend here claims it is over 200 Nautical miles

All three figures are pure fiction.

The 110 mile figure comes from a missile test many years ago. The
Phoenix was launched when the target was 110 miles away. But since
the target was flying *towards* the missile at considerable speed, the
actual distance covered by the missile was much less - closer to 70
miles. That's the actual maximum range of the missile.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

[Pechs1]

sindrake-<< To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a
AIM-54A
Phoenix Air to Air Missile? >><BR><BR>

Classified....

<< but my friend here claims it is over 200 Nautical miles


Yer friend is FOS...

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Tom Cooper]

"eXistenZ" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone who knows the answer to this Question Please help me in any way
> possible,.
>
> To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
> Phoenix Air to Air Missile?

The longest-ranged AIM-54A-shot I've ever heard so far was scored during
some kind of a testing, against a high+fast flying drone, in early 1979s.
The missile hit the target 204km from the launching point ( i.e. after
indeed crossing 204km).

The longest-ranged shot for a kill was scored in December 1981, when two
IRIAF F-14As engaged four incoming Iraqi Mirage F.1EQs. The Tomcats fired
several AIM-54As from a distance of some 140km+.

Their kills were confirmed by independent sources (including US, Iranian,
Iraqi, and Saudi).

Few years later there should've been an even more spectacular shot that
killed a fast accelerating-away (Soviet-flown) Iraqi MiG-25, but I don't
have all the details about that case, so can't call it a "confirmed" as of
yet.

> most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
> while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.

Eventually, this should depend on the version: most of books from the 1980s
state the range of the AIM-54A was "100nm". Most of the books from the 1990s
state the range of the AIM-54C was "up to "110nm".

It was definitely never more than this: quite on the contrary, the usual
engagement ranges in combat were between 40 and 70km.

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************

[Tony Volk]

How's the book on Iranian F-14 units in combat coming Tom?

Tony

"Tom Cooper" > wrote in message
...
> "eXistenZ" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anyone who knows the answer to this Question Please help me in any way
> > possible,.
> >
> > To The Nearest Tenth of a Mile, What is the Maximum Range of a AIM-54A
> > Phoenix Air to Air Missile?
>
> The longest-ranged AIM-54A-shot I've ever heard so far was scored during
> some kind of a testing, against a high+fast flying drone, in early 1979s.
> The missile hit the target 204km from the launching point ( i.e. after
> indeed crossing 204km).
>
> The longest-ranged shot for a kill was scored in December 1981, when two
> IRIAF F-14As engaged four incoming Iraqi Mirage F.1EQs. The Tomcats fired
> several AIM-54As from a distance of some 140km+.
>
> Their kills were confirmed by independent sources (including US, Iranian,
> Iraqi, and Saudi).
>
> Few years later there should've been an even more spectacular shot that
> killed a fast accelerating-away (Soviet-flown) Iraqi MiG-25, but I don't
> have all the details about that case, so can't call it a "confirmed" as of
> yet.
>
> > most military websites claim 100 Nautical miles
> > while other sites say 110 nautical miles,.
>
> Eventually, this should depend on the version: most of books from the
1980s
> state the range of the AIM-54A was "100nm". Most of the books from the
1990s
> state the range of the AIM-54C was "up to "110nm".
>
> It was definitely never more than this: quite on the contrary, the usual
> engagement ranges in combat were between 40 and 70km.
>
> Tom Cooper
> Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
> Vienna, Austria
>
> *************************************************
>
> Author:
> Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
> http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
>
> Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
> http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6585
>
> African MiGs
> http://www.acig.org/afmig/
>
> Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
> http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6550~ser=COM
>
> *************************************************
>
>

[Tom Cooper]

It's coming out in September this year, Tony.


Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************

[Elmshoot]

I remember talking to a Tomcat backseater who was up for an exercise to try and
get a fireing solution against a overflying SR-71. He spent about 5 minutes
explaining the problems of getting within about 3 degree position off his each
others nose and the window to get a solution was mere seconds. Pretty
interesting stuff . He never got to the window but had a hell of a time trying
to get there.

I guess the Black bird turned around so they made multiple runs. The TALOS
shooter was also trying to get a position on him. I think the SM-2 er wasn't
even a player.
Sparky

[Tom Cooper]

Well, the MiG-25 were also a bitch to tackle, and the Iranians needed some
time to learn how to do the job.

The first problem was the lack of proper EW-radar support: Iraqis have got
the blueprints of the Iranian radar net and were using gaps in this net
extensivelly to penetrate into the enemy airspace (IRIAF F-14s were
forbidden to fly into Iraq). In the cases where a Foxbat was detected in
time there was always a question of the F-14 being in a proper position to
attempt an intercept - or not. Then, the Foxbat had a very good RWR (this
contrary to even to late-mark Mirage F.1EQs), sensitive enough to detect
AWG-9 emissions (if the radar was working in specific modes) from really
some very long ranges. Finally, Iraqi, Soviet and East German MiG-25 (and
other) pilots (there was even a single Belgian who was permitted to fly the
type) were advised to avoid engagements with F-14s at any price.

So, there was a highly elusive target, operating at extreme speeds and
levels: MiG-25RBs were usually flying at Mach 2.1-2.3 and levels between
65.000 and 70.000ft. MiG-25PD(export)s would often come down low, but on the
first sign of Iranian Tomcats anywhere nearby they would turn around and
accelerate away. When Iranians started using their F-4Es (with radar off,
and closing solely on the basis of Combat Tree data), the Iraqis reacted by
adding MiG-25PD-escorts, so such engagements usually ended with each side
firing SARH AAMs - and no kills, as everybody had to evade.

Eventually, it was a matter of much good luck to catch one of them: a total
of at least 12 Foxbats were splashed by Iranians during the war - at least
eight of these by F-14s, one by F-5Es, and one is shared by these two types
(damaged by AIM-54A then finished off by Sidewinders from a Tiger). The rest
was chopped out of the skies by MIM-23B I-HAWKs, further uprated by Iranians
to reach higher levels (approx 65.000ft). A (preliminary) list of air-to-air
confirmed so far on basis of cross-examining independent evidence can be
found here:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml

Tom Cooper
Freelance Aviation Journalist & Historian
Vienna, Austria

*************************************************

Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6585

African MiGs
http://www.acig.org/afmig/

Arab MiG-19 & MiG-21 Units in Combat
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S6550~ser=COM

*************************************************