Night VFR Soaring (USA)

[Mike the Strike]

In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
(which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
necessary navigation lights.

In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
after) sunset. I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
useful?

Night OLC, anyone?

Mike

[vontresc]

FAR 91.205 (c) Requires Position Lights, anti collision system for
airplanes after 1971, an adequate electrical supply, and spare fuses.
FAR 91.209 Requires position lights, and to use an anti collision
system is installed.

I don't think it would be too hard to install this on a glider. You
may get some odd looks from the FSDO when you get your ops limits
changed to include night VFR flight though :-)

Pete

On Apr 13, 11:57*am, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
> necessary navigation lights.
>
> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
> after) sunset. *I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
> useful?
>
> Night OLC, anyone?
>
> Mike

[jcarlyle]

I once made a landing on our unlighted grassy field at 5 minutes
before local sunset. It's not an experience I ever want to have again!
Judging height for the flare was difficult - sort of like skiing a
mogul field at night.

-John

I'd think that you'd have difficulty judging height above the runway,
unless you had a landing light.

On Apr 13, 12:57 pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
> necessary navigation lights.
>
> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
> after) sunset. I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
> useful?
>
> Night OLC, anyone?
>
> Mike

[Brian[_1_]]

FAR 91.205 only applies to Powered aircraft.

I am a little unsure how to interpret 91.209(b). I think it is trying
to say that if you have anticollsion lights you have to use them
unless the pilot deems it unsafe to operate them.

So I think all you would need is postion lights.

Brian

[bildan]

Night flying requires specific training, practice and currency but,
given that, landings become comfortable enough. Since, like
instrument training, night training is hard/impossible to do in a
glider, you're pretty much left training in a light airplane. Google
"night flying" and find a lot of useful stuff.

As for the question about practicality, we know soaring flight can be
sustained in wave and on a ridge at night. Some bare rock, like old
lava, holds enough heat to keep thermals going well after dark. LED
aircraft lighting has been approved so the current draw is low
enough. I have seen pictures of gliders in Argentina landing at night
with both position lights and a landing light. Looking at some of the
Argentine distance wave flights on OLC, it's clear some took off and/
or landed at night.

The unasked question is about safety. Night flight has a really bad
accident record in General Aviation - and that's with an engine for go-
arounds if an approach turns out badly. I found that night flight
just works better if you treat it as instrument flying. There are
certainly times and places when a pilots only attitude reference will
be his instruments even in clear weather. An IFR panel and current
skills to use it would be on my minimum equipment list. It's worth
noting that the USA is one of the few countries in the world which
allows night VFR.

Taking off into a "Black Hole" with absolutely no ground lights on a
dark night is an experience every pilot who has experienced it will
remember forever.


On Apr 13, 12:04*pm, jcarlyle > wrote:
> I once made a landing on our unlighted grassy field at 5 minutes
> before local sunset. It's not an experience I ever want to have again!
> Judging height for the flare was difficult - sort of like skiing a
> mogul field at night.
>
> -John
>
> I'd think that you'd have difficulty judging height above the runway,
> unless you had a landing light.
>
> On Apr 13, 12:57 pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
> > told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
> > (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
> > removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
> > necessary navigation lights.
>
> > In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
> > the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
> > after) sunset. *I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
> > sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
> > useful?
>
> > Night OLC, anyone?
>
> > Mike

[vontresc]

On Apr 13, 1:46*pm, Brian > wrote:
> FAR 91.205 only applies to Powered aircraft.
>
> I am a little unsure how to interpret 91.209(b). I think it is trying
> to say that if you have anticollsion lights you have to use them
> unless the pilot deems it unsafe to operate them.
>
> So I think all you would need is postion lights.
>
> Brian

Hmmm you're right 91.205 applies only to powered aircraft. Is there a
similar FAR that addresses the minimum equipment requirements for
gliders?

Pete

[Tony[_5_]]

i went through this last year with my glider. the operating
limitations at that time limited me to 91.205 for day VFR operations
and prohibited night/IFR ops. Even though 91.205 on its own does not
apply to gliders, since i was bound to it through my operating
limitations it did apply to me.

Last spring I got my operating limitations changed to reflect the
standard limitation of no instrument requirements for day VFR and
91.205 for everything else.

[Brian Whatcott]

Mike the Strike wrote:
> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
> necessary navigation lights.
>
> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
> after) sunset. I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
> useful?
>
> Night OLC, anyone?
>
> Mike

It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
it is often black as ..well..night.)

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

bildan wrote:
>... It's worth
> noting that the USA is one of the few countries in the world which
> allows night VFR.

??

[BT[_3_]]

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> Mike the Strike wrote:
>> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
>> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
>> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
>> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
>> necessary navigation lights.
>>
>> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
>> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
>> after) sunset. I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
>> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
>> useful?
>>
>> Night OLC, anyone?
>>
>> Mike
>
> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one hour
> after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time it is
> often black as ..well..night.)
>
> Brian W

Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac is
now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.

For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and Sunrise
at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.

Not the "hour" that you suggest.

The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.

BT

[Eric Greenwell]

Mike the Strike wrote:
>
> Night OLC, anyone?
>
I thought the OLC had a restriction on night flying, but I couldn't find
any reference to it. Does OLC place restriction on flying before or
after sunset?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[Brian Whatcott]

BT wrote:
>
>
> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mike the Strike wrote:
>>> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
>>> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
>>> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
>>> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
>>> necessary navigation lights.
>>>
>>> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
>>> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
>>> after) sunset. I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
>>> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
>>> useful?
>>>
>>> Night OLC, anyone?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>
> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>
> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>
> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>
> BT

Aw - that's too bad! I have nav lights and landing/taxi and an
anti-collision beacon, and I only got 90% on my recent written - so I
stand corrected - but the Delegated Pilot examiner liked the +1 hour
definition on the Oral last month, so I guess you are one up on her too!
:-)

Regards

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

BT wrote:

>>
>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>
> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>
> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>
> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>
> BT


BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)

If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."

Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...

Brian W

[BT[_3_]]

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
>> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
>> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
>> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>
>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>
>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>
>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
>> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>
>> BT
>
>
> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>
> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>
> Brian W

Brian... but that is not the definition of "night".
It only defines that to carry a passenger between one hour after sunset and
one hour before sunrise you must perform 3 landings and take offs during the
same period, one hour after sunset to one hour before sunrise. Just because
the paragraph (b) starts with night, it does not define "night".

There is only one definition of Night in the FARS, and it is in Part 1.1.

BT

[BT[_3_]]

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
>> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
>> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
>> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>
>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>
>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>
>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
>> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>
>> BT
>
>
> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>
> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>
> Brian W

Brian... but that is not the definition of "night".
It only defines that to carry a passenger between one hour after sunset and
one hour before sunrise you must perform 3 landings and take offs during the
same period, one hour after sunset to one hour before sunrise. Just because
the paragraph (b) starts with night, it does not define "night".

There is only one definition of Night in the FARS, and it is in Part 1.1.

BT

[BT[_3_]]

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
>> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
>> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
>> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>
>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>
>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>
>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
>> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>
>> BT
>
>
> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>
> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>
> Brian W

Brian... but that is not the definition of "night".
It only defines that to carry a passenger between one hour after sunset and
one hour before sunrise you must perform 3 landings and take offs during the
same period, one hour after sunset to one hour before sunrise. Just because
the paragraph (b) starts with night, it does not define "night".

There is only one definition of Night in the FARS, and it is in Part 1.1.

BT

[5Z]

On Apr 13, 7:21*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> I thought the OLC had a restriction on night flying, but I couldn't find
> any reference to it. Does OLC place restriction on flying before or
> after sunset?

Per the sporting code:
5.3.2 Certificates
a. PILOT CERTIFICATION OF REGULATORY COMPLIANCE The pilot must certify
that the soaring performance was conducted in accordance with the FAI
Sporting Code, was flown in compliance with all the glider
manufacturer's and national operating limitations, and in accordance
with national flight regulations respecting airspace use, night
flight, etc.

And I believe the OLC tries to follow the SC when practical.

And getting back to the original question, which was not about flying
in darkness, but about flying after sunset. In the US, the aircraft
must have anti collision lights to be legal. In the western US, it's
not uncommon for there to still be lift at sunset or even later. With
the proper equipment, one could easily watch the sun set from the top
of a thermal, then spend the next hour or so gliding home.

If it's a typical desert evening with little if no overdevelopment,
one could expect a fairly benign airmass with no surprises, so making
a conservative glide home with a number of large fields or lighted
airports on the way should, for the experienced and well prepared
pilot, be quite safe.

I recall a flight from central Colorado into southwestern Kansas a few
years ago. I was quite a bit ahead of my crew and attempting to reach
Liberal when the day fizzled out. So I started the engine over a nice
field and started motoring toward a more convenient airport. In this
direction there were some nice late clouds and soon I had the engine
stowed as I flew in the late day thermals. I arrived at the airport
and waited in great lift for Karen to arrive with the trailer. As I
enjoyed the evening and setting sun, it dawned on me that the sun is
setting! So out came the spoilers and very quickly I'd wasted the few
thousand feet to get on the ground a minute or two before official
sunset. A half hour or more later it was still light enough to make a
safe landing on an unlighted runway - if only it were legal...

-Tom

[5Z]

On Apr 13, 7:47*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...

Nope - one definition, several requirements.

As soon as the sun sets, it becomes hard to see aircraft (and oncoming
cars) if they're not illuminated, yet it's still pretty much daytime
as far as seeing the ground and large obstructions.

It's not until it's quite dark that landings become a bit more
interesting than during the day, so the FAA wants to be sure you're
current at landing IN THE DARK before carrying passengers.

-Tom

[BT[_3_]]

sorry for the multiple replies.. the news server stuttered
BT

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening civil
>> twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published in the
>> American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air Almanac
>> is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>
>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>
>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>
>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise (excluding
>> Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>
>> BT
>
>
> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>
> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>
> Brian W

[Mike the Strike]

On Apr 13, 8:59*pm, 5Z > wrote:
> On Apr 13, 7:47*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
>
> > If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
> > definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
> > beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>
> > Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>
> Nope - one definition, several requirements.
>
> As soon as the sun sets, it becomes hard to see aircraft (and oncoming
> cars) if they're not illuminated, yet it's still pretty much daytime
> as far as seeing the ground and large obstructions.
>
> It's not until it's quite dark that landings become a bit more
> interesting than during the day, so the FAA wants to be sure you're
> current at landing IN THE DARK before carrying passengers.
>
> -Tom

As the OP, perhaps I should clarify a few things.

I understand that it was ALWAYS legal to fly a VFR certified aircraft,
including gliders, after sunset (but in twilight) provided that you
have the required navigation lights. This is after sunset, but before
the onset of "legal" night! Night VFR only commences after the end of
civil twilight and is reportedly no longer restricted under
Experimental certification in the USA.

It would certainly be useful to finish our final glides in twilight,
but I believe that we all can (and always could) do this legally
anyway. At our home field, we find landing into the setting sun
greatly reduces visibility and waiting five minutes till it has set
improves safety. There is no question, though, once the sun has set,
you need navigation lights.

AFAIK, no part of any FAI badge flight can be flown at night. I have
not seen any ruling on OLC.

So any rules folk out there - can we or can't we soar at night for
records, badge flights or OLC?

Mike

[Peter Scholz[_2_]]

Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Apr 13, 8:59 pm, 5Z > wrote:
>> On Apr 13, 7:47 pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
>>
>>> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
>>> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
>>> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>>> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>> Nope - one definition, several requirements.
>>
>> As soon as the sun sets, it becomes hard to see aircraft (and oncoming
>> cars) if they're not illuminated, yet it's still pretty much daytime
>> as far as seeing the ground and large obstructions.
>>
>> It's not until it's quite dark that landings become a bit more
>> interesting than during the day, so the FAA wants to be sure you're
>> current at landing IN THE DARK before carrying passengers.
>>
>> -Tom
>
> As the OP, perhaps I should clarify a few things.
>
> I understand that it was ALWAYS legal to fly a VFR certified aircraft,
> including gliders, after sunset (but in twilight) provided that you
> have the required navigation lights. This is after sunset, but before
> the onset of "legal" night! Night VFR only commences after the end of
> civil twilight and is reportedly no longer restricted under
> Experimental certification in the USA.
>
> It would certainly be useful to finish our final glides in twilight,
> but I believe that we all can (and always could) do this legally
> anyway. At our home field, we find landing into the setting sun
> greatly reduces visibility and waiting five minutes till it has set
> improves safety. There is no question, though, once the sun has set,
> you need navigation lights.
>
> AFAIK, no part of any FAI badge flight can be flown at night. I have
> not seen any ruling on OLC.
>
> So any rules folk out there - can we or can't we soar at night for
> records, badge flights or OLC?
>
> Mike

Concerning OLC, night flights seem to be valid as long as they are
carried out legally (i.e. you have a valid night VFR rating and your
glider is equipped with the required lights).

I checked with the german rules, as the OLC originally started here:

Section 12 start with this sentence:
"Die Veranstalter des OLC gehen davon aus, dass die Teilnehmer bei ihren
Wertungsflügen nicht gegen luftrechtliche und andere Vorschriften
verstoßen."

In the english rules this sentence is translated to:
"The OLC organizers have to assume that the participants in the contest
will not violate restricted airspace during their flights."

A more precise translation would be:
"The OLC organizers have to assume that the participants in the contest
will not violate any air law and other regulations during their flights."

FAI ruling is different, but OLC just says that if you are flying
legally, the flight will count.
--
Peter Scholz
ASW 24 JE

[Brian Whatcott]

BT wrote:
>
>
> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> BT wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is
>>>> one hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by
>>>> which time it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>
>>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening
>>> civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as
>>> published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The
>>> American Air Almanac is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>>
>>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>>
>>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>>
>>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise
>>> (excluding Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>>
>>> BT
>>
>>
>> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>>
>> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
>> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
>> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>>
>> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Brian... but that is not the definition of "night"....
> BT

Duh!
'follow the definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is
the "period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before
sunrise."'

' Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...'

What don't you understand about FAR 61.57(b) Definition of night?

Brian W

[airshowbob]

I routinely fly my gliders at night for airshows. Learning to fly
aerobatics at night was one of the scariest things I've ever done.
However, once I established the proper parameters and visual cues (and
where not to look to avoid being blinded by the pyrotechnics), it is a
blast! The occasional night wave flight is pretty awesome too.
Frankly, I prefer hard dark to twilight. Once my eyes adjust to hard
dark, it's better to not be exposed to any light. The western horizon
can be very bright long after sunset (especially in northern
latitudes). Landing into a setting sun can be near impossible.
Landing a glider at night is harder than an airplane (even a back-
seat, no-visibility biplane like the Skybolt) because of the extremely
low visual position. At touchdown, your eyes are scarcely higher than
the runway light posts. All depth perception is lost at the final
moments. Also much worse with a tinted canopy. Without my landing
light, I can't see the runway at all.

There are different definitions for various stages of 'non-day'
flight. The requirement for position and anti-collision lights is
different than that for night currency. Also, the requirement in
91.205 for an 'adequate source of electrical energy' can be a problem
in an unpowered glider. (91.205 technically only applies to
airplanes, but your operating limitations probably reference it, so it
applies.) A standard set of position lights draws about 12 amps, a
strobe system draws about 6 amps. With my 8 ah battery, the strobe
starts going haywire in about 30 minutes. The lights are noticeably
dim by then. And that is starting with a fresh 'light-dedicated'
battery. The new LED lights draw less current, but are really
expensive. My ops limits only allow 30 minutes after sunset, and
require replacing the battery every three years.

Night VFR has been allowed on experimental aircraft for many years.
Nothing new as far as I know...

Bob

On Apr 13, 10:57*am, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> In issuing a new airworthiness certificate, my local FAA FSDO examiner
> told me yesterday that the restrictions on experimental aircraft
> (which includes a lot of sailplanes) to fly only in day VFR had been
> removed, and night VFR was now permitted in aircraft equipped with the
> necessary navigation lights.
>
> In Arizona, our short summer days sometimes have us on final glide as
> the sun is setting and we do occasionally land around (or even just
> after) sunset. *I know most contest rules cut off soaring at or before
> sunset, but I wonder if there any circumstances where this would be
> useful?
>
> Night OLC, anyone?
>
> Mike

[BT[_3_]]

61.57 does not define "night"
1.1 defines "night"
61.57 says your in the dark "night" landings have to be 1hr after sunset, to
1hr before sunrise.
Definitions are not in the 61 or 91 series of the regs
Definitions are in Part 1.1

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>>
>>
>> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> BT wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is one
>>>>> hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by which time
>>>>> it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian W
>>>>
>>>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening
>>>> civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as published
>>>> in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The American Air
>>>> Almanac is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>>>
>>>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>>>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>>>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes later.
>>>>
>>>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>>>
>>>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise
>>>> (excluding Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>>>
>>>> BT
>>>
>>>
>>> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>>>
>>> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
>>> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the "period
>>> beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise."
>>>
>>> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Brian... but that is not the definition of "night"....
>> BT
>
> Duh!
> 'follow the definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the
> "period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before
> sunrise."'
>
> ' Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...'
>
> What don't you understand about FAR 61.57(b) Definition of night?
>
> Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

Following the various discussions on this group, I am
finding it personally helpful to couch the (at least)
three FAR references to night in terms of relating
flight safety to operational pilot behavior, in order
to get safety-conscious answers to some questions
of this kind:

When do I need to apply nav lights and anti-collision light?
- As early as possible, for safety's sake: sunset to sunup.

What time of night do I need to fly, land to full stop etc.,
so as to provide a minimally safe level of night pilotage for passengers?
- for safety's sake: in the darkness of night, an hour after
sunset, an hour before sunup.

What times can I legally enter in a log for night flight?
- some variable delay after sunset and before sunup to be
obtained from a Naval Observatory source or an Air Almanac;
which delay differs from latitude to latitude and month to month:
a definition only a lawyer could love, but which is at least
based on the facts of nightfall, however impractical...

Brian W

BT wrote:
> 61.57 does not define "night"
> 1.1 defines "night"
> 61.57 says your in the dark "night" landings have to be 1hr after
> sunset, to 1hr before sunrise.
> Definitions are not in the 61 or 91 series of the regs
> Definitions are in Part 1.1
>
> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> BT wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> BT wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's helpful to remember that the official definition of night is
>>>>>> one hour after civil twilight to one hour before civil dawn (by
>>>>>> which time it is often black as ..well..night.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian, Wrong answer. FAR 1.1 defines "night" as the end of evening
>>>>> civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight as
>>>>> published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time. The
>>>>> American Air Almanac is now maintained by the US Naval Observatory.
>>>>>
>>>>> For my location today, Morning Civil Twilight started at 5:42am and
>>>>> Sunrise at 6:09am, 27 minutes later.
>>>>> Sunset is 7:14pm and End of Civil Twilight is 7:40pm, 26 minutes
>>>>> later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not the "hour" that you suggest.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "aircraft lighting" requirement is from Sunset to Sunrise
>>>>> (excluding Alaska). 91.209, Not twilight to twilight.
>>>>>
>>>>> BT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BT - wrong answer: right back at ya! :-)
>>>>
>>>> If you need to get night current to carry passengers, follow the
>>>> definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is the
>>>> "period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before
>>>> sunrise."
>>>>
>>>> Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>
>>> Brian... but that is not the definition of "night"....
>>> BT
>>
>> Duh!
>> 'follow the definition of night as described in FAR 61.57(b), which is
>> the "period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before
>> sunrise."'
>>
>> ' Yes, there really are several different definitions in the FARs...'
>>
>> What don't you understand about FAR 61.57(b) Definition of night?
>>
>> Brian W
>