Allow me to share today's activities

[Frederick Wilson]

Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and see the
Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.

This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).

Please let me know what you think.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a


Thank you,
Fred

[Jeff LeTempt]

Fred,

Four AH-64 up in the air at one time, not bad for a BN level exercise :<))
Just kidding. Very nice pictures and thank you for your service to our
great country sir!!

Jeff
(CW4 KW pilot)


"Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and see
the
> Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
>
> This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
>
>
> Thank you,
> Fred
>
>

[Frederick Wilson]

K W pilot, as I understand they almost can not get off the ground under
their own limited power. ;-)

Oh well, look at me, Hawk and Chinook qualled and flying Huey's

Fred


"Jeff LeTempt" > wrote in message
...
> Fred,
>
> Four AH-64 up in the air at one time, not bad for a BN level exercise
:<))
> Just kidding. Very nice pictures and thank you for your service to our
> great country sir!!
>
> Jeff
> (CW4 KW pilot)
>
>
> "Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
> news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and see
> the
> > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> >
> > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> >
> > Please let me know what you think.
> >
> > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Fred
> >
> >
>
>

[Frederick Wilson]

Oh yea, I forgot to tell you. They came in at night as a flight of 8.
Six -64s and two -60s. It was pretty darn impressive.

Fred


"Jeff LeTempt" > wrote in message
...
> Fred,
>
> Four AH-64 up in the air at one time, not bad for a BN level exercise
:<))
> Just kidding. Very nice pictures and thank you for your service to our
> great country sir!!
>
> Jeff
> (CW4 KW pilot)
>
>
> "Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
> news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and see
> the
> > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> >
> > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> >
> > Please let me know what you think.
> >
> > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Fred
> >
> >
>
>

[Big John]

Fred

What's wrong with the "whap, whap, whap's"?

Their blade noise in VN was called the sound of freedom.

If anyone had to jump out over South VN there would be 3-4 Huey's
circling the pilot before he hit the ground.

Big John


On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:51:00 GMT, "Frederick Wilson"
> wrote:

>K W pilot, as I understand they almost can not get off the ground under
>their own limited power. ;-)
>
>Oh well, look at me, Hawk and Chinook qualled and flying Huey's
>
>Fred
>
>
>"Jeff LeTempt" > wrote in message
...
>> Fred,
>>
>> Four AH-64 up in the air at one time, not bad for a BN level exercise
>:<))
>> Just kidding. Very nice pictures and thank you for your service to our
>> great country sir!!
>>
>> Jeff
>> (CW4 KW pilot)
>>
>>
>> "Frederick Wilson" > wrote in message
>> news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
>> > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and see
>> the
>> > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
>> >
>> > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
>> >
>> > Please let me know what you think.
>> >
>> > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> > Fred
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[Larry Smith]

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Fred
>
> What's wrong with the "whap, whap, whap's"?
>
> Their blade noise in VN was called the sound of freedom.
>

Littlejohn, coming from you, THAT is sanctimony and hypocrisy.

[Del Rawlins]

On 08 Nov 2003 11:56 AM, karel adams posted the following:
> could anyone enlighten me
> as to what this has to do
> with homebuilt aircraft?

If you can't draw the connection yourself, I doubt if anybody can
connect the dots for you.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Jerry Springer]

karel adams wrote:
> could anyone enlighten me
> as to what this has to do
> with homebuilt aircraft?
>
Absolutely nothing it is just posted here
to **** people YOU off.

[Frederick Wilson]

Something about freedom to do so.


"karel adams" > wrote in message
...
> could anyone enlighten me
> as to what this has to do
> with homebuilt aircraft?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and
> see the
> > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> >
> > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> >
> > Please let me know what you think.
> >
> > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Fred
> >
> >
>
>

[Jerry Wass]

Weeell, I'd lak to see dem pitchers, but I'se gots Nutscrape 4.8 "N I don
Hahyou,
'n I gess I don gits to see 'em--I tried punchin anything that looked like a
button...

Frederick Wilson wrote:

> Something about freedom to do so.
>
> "karel adams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > could anyone enlighten me
> > as to what this has to do
> > with homebuilt aircraft?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> > news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and
> > see the
> > > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> > >
> > > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> > >
> > > Please let me know what you think.
> > >
> > > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

[Frederick Wilson]

Just for you Jerry

http://home.insightbb.com/~fawilson/


"Jerry Wass" > wrote in message
...
> Weeell, I'd lak to see dem pitchers, but I'se gots Nutscrape 4.8 "N I don
> Hahyou,
> 'n I gess I don gits to see 'em--I tried punchin anything that looked like
a
> button...
>
> Frederick Wilson wrote:
>
> > Something about freedom to do so.
> >
> > "karel adams" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > could anyone enlighten me
> > > as to what this has to do
> > > with homebuilt aircraft?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> > > news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > > > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and
> > > see the
> > > > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> > > >
> > > > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know what you think.
> > > >
> > > > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>

[Holger Stephan]

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:47:39 +0000, Larry Smith wrote:
> Littlejohn, coming from you, THAT is sanctimony and hypocrisy.




*** +--------------+
**** |*** PLEASE*** |
**** | DO NOT* FEED |
**** |* THE TROLLS* |
**** |--The RAH Mgt.|
**** +------++------+
*********** ||
**** o o o* ||*** *
*** ,,\|/,,,||,,,/,,,
*** ---+--------------

[Frederick Wilson]

Your such a dork. I guess you do not see the reason or the cause of freedom
if it slapped you in the face. But then again, maybe you do not want
freedom. At any rate, freedom allows the opportunity to build and fly
airplanes for personal enjoyment.

Fred


"karel adams" > wrote in message
...
> Then I take you have also posted them to
> news://alt.games.volleyball
> news://sport.swimming.oceans
> news://clothing.knitting
> and
> news://****ing.pigs
>
> ???
>
>
> "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> news:5serb.107872$9E1.534948@attbi_s52...
> > Something about freedom to do so.
> >
> >
> > "karel adams" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > could anyone enlighten me
> > > as to what this has to do
> > > with homebuilt aircraft?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> > > news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > > > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below
> and
> > > see the
> > > > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> > > >
> > > > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know what you think.
> > > >
> > > > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Frederick Wilson]

I can resemble that :-), FWIW Dork is more of a comical thing around where I
am from as opposed to Jack @$$. Which of course I am not calling you.

Fred


"karel adams" > wrote in message
...
> Well if you call me dork for pointing out
> that freedom is also required to have
> the opportunity of playing volleyball
> then I'll be proud to be a dork
> (whatever that my be)
> even it's only a nitwit calling me that
>
> "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> news:Zh3sb.123287$9E1.612418@attbi_s52...
> > Your such a dork. I guess you do not see the reason or the cause of
> freedom
> > if it slapped you in the face. But then again, maybe you do not want
> > freedom. At any rate, freedom allows the opportunity to build and fly
> > airplanes for personal enjoyment.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > "karel adams" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Then I take you have also posted them to
> > > news://alt.games.volleyball
> > > news://sport.swimming.oceans
> > > news://clothing.knitting
> > > and
> > > news://****ing.pigs
> > >
> > > ???
> > >
> > >
> > > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> > > news:5serb.107872$9E1.534948@attbi_s52...
> > > > Something about freedom to do so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "karel adams" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > could anyone enlighten me
> > > > > as to what this has to do
> > > > > with homebuilt aircraft?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in
> bericht
> > > > > news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > > > > > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link
> below
> > > and
> > > > > see the
> > > > > > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please let me know what you think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Bruce A. Frank]

Mr. Adams,

I am not familiar with you. I don't hang out here on RAH as much as I
used to because I am trying to get some work done on my project. So your
posts on this subject are the first impression I have of you. Do you
naturally come by the ability to be so asinine or do you just come here
to practice?

Bruce A. Frank

karel adams wrote:
>
> Then I take you have also posted them to
> news://alt.games.volleyball
> news://sport.swimming.oceans
> news://clothing.knitting
> and
> news://****ing.pigs
>
> ???
>
>

[Holger Stephan]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:45 +0000, Bruce A. Frank wrote:

> Mr. Adams,
>
> I am not familiar with you. I don't hang out here on RAH as much as I
> used to because I am trying to get some work done on my project. So your
> posts on this subject are the first impression I have of you. Do you
> naturally come by the ability to be so asinine or do you just come here
> to practice?
>
> Bruce A. Frank

Without your follow-up here I would have taken Mr. Adams attack as one
more of those low grade aggressions that seem to have found a commonplace
here at RAH. In any of the multiple other discussion groups I participate
in this would have triggered a number of responses, explaining to Mr.
Adams his attitude and language was inappropriate for this forum.

Thank you, Bruce, for taking the time to give this feedback. Maybe there
is a chance to bring RAH to once again accept basic rules of respect and
politeness. I suspect Mr. Adam, by using Internet related terminology
correctly, to be of younger generation. Possibly he is trying to fill into
the foot steps of the BObs here. Whatever your motivation has been, Mr.
Adams, please know there is good number of RAH members (some,
unfortunately, former) who do not appreciate such tone.

- Holger

[- Barnyard BOb -]

>Thank you, Bruce, for taking the time to give this feedback. Maybe there
>is a chance to bring RAH to once again accept basic rules of respect and
>politeness. I suspect Mr. Adam, by using Internet related terminology
>correctly, to be of younger generation.

ONCE AGAIN???

What are you smoking, Holger?????
RAH has NEVER ACCEPTED ANY SUCH RULES
as long as I've been here from any Net Nazis.

>....Possibly he is trying to fill into
>the foot steps of the BObs here. Whatever your motivation has been, Mr.
>Adams, please know there is good number of RAH members (some,
>unfortunately, former) who do not appreciate such tone.
>
>- Holger

Get your head right, Holger.
What you and others of your misguided ilk appreciate
is counter to the practice of FREE SPEECH.

If you're truly into "peace, civility and tranquility"
mode, why must you have it both ways by stirring
**** using my name? You had to know I would
meet you eye to eye about this latest turd of yours.
I'm not much on pious bull**** and I don't think
others here generally are either. So....
Proceed at your own risk.

FYI --

RAH is what it is and has always been.....
An unmoderated group where most anything
andy everything can happen. It's the nature
of REAL freedom. There is little need for prim
and proper assholes to muck it up with prissy
and ****y notions of what RAH need be.

Count your lucky stars that I and other military
veterans have served, so you could spout
whatever you like here pretty much with
impunity... just like I do.

In case you haven't noticed, I've never even
remotely hinted about how you or anyone else
here should practice FREE SPEECH. Please
allow me the same freedom. It is my right as well
as yours and protected by the US Constitution.

Please consider...
Starting a moderated group in your own image,
if the BOb's here are too much for you to TOLERATE.

Once again, Holger...
Get your head right or **** off.

If you want respect...
EARN IT.

Have a nice day.

Barnyard BOb -- CANG, TNG, USAF veteran

[Holger Stephan]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:00:57 +0000, karel adams wrote:
> As to my tone: I already explained that it was Fred's reply that got me
> surly. Is he to blame then, or me?
>
> KA
> old enough to have gained some wisdom young enough to forget it once in
> a while

Maybe you're right and I over reacted for which I would like to
apologize.

You say a more subtle language is wasted in this country. I think you can
give it more credit.

I hope you'll find the time and funds to start a project. There are many
unfinished projects abandoned in hangars and barns that can be had for a
few hundred bucks, if only located. I found one nearby, the widow was
happy to receive $1500 and then I yanked stuff from it and sold it at eBay
for more afterward. That project was advertised on T-A-P.

Best of luck

Holger

[Holger Stephan]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:03:51 +0000, - Barnyard BOb - wrote:
> ONCE AGAIN???
>
> What are you smoking, Holger?????
> RAH has NEVER ACCEPTED ANY SUCH RULES as long as I've been here from any
> Net Nazis.

It is not at all about Net Nazi rules or to restrict free speech. And I
have yet to see an Internet discussion group (be it on the newsnet or a
mailing list) with such a rude attitude from day 1. That is established by
a few who get a kick out of assaulting others. Then they find some
followers on that playground.

It doesn't have to be that way. RAH is really the most aggressive place on
the Internet I stop by regularly. I've heard from numerous others who
agree and a good part turned their back on RAH because of this.

You like it that way and it comes to no surprise you use displaced
references to the right of free speech and Net Nazis to defend your
habitat.

> **** using my name? You had to know I would meet you eye to eye about
> this latest turd of yours. I'm not much on pious bull**** and I don't
> think others here generally are either. So.... Proceed at your own risk.

No, we're not meeting eye to eye, meaning in person, and that may be part
of the problem. We wouldn't be half as rude if this was a real discussion
in person.

BTW, what is that veterans talk about? It is not needed to respect you as
RAH member. Especially you with your vast aviation knowledge and your
excellently written postings that I do enjoy to read. At the same time you
are the archetype of notorious attacker, and that's why I referred to you
earlier.


- Holger

[Gig Giacona]

"Holger Stephan" > wrote in message > It doesn't
have to be that way. RAH is really the most aggressive place on
> the Internet I stop by regularly. I've heard from numerous others who
> agree and a good part turned their back on RAH because of this.

You must not get out much. RAH is a nursery school compared to
alt.folklore.urban

[Corky Scott]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:26:51 -0800, "Holger Stephan"
> wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:03:51 +0000, - Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>> ONCE AGAIN???
>>
>> What are you smoking, Holger?????
>> RAH has NEVER ACCEPTED ANY SUCH RULES as long as I've been here from any
>> Net Nazis.
>
>It is not at all about Net Nazi rules or to restrict free speech. And I
>have yet to see an Internet discussion group (be it on the newsnet or a
>mailing list) with such a rude attitude from day 1. That is established by
>a few who get a kick out of assaulting others. Then they find some
>followers on that playground.
>
>It doesn't have to be that way. RAH is really the most aggressive place on
>the Internet I stop by regularly. I've heard from numerous others who
>agree and a good part turned their back on RAH because of this.
>
>You like it that way and it comes to no surprise you use displaced
>references to the right of free speech and Net Nazis to defend your
>habitat.
>
>> **** using my name? You had to know I would meet you eye to eye about
>> this latest turd of yours. I'm not much on pious bull**** and I don't
>> think others here generally are either. So.... Proceed at your own risk.
>
>No, we're not meeting eye to eye, meaning in person, and that may be part
>of the problem. We wouldn't be half as rude if this was a real discussion
>in person.
>
>BTW, what is that veterans talk about? It is not needed to respect you as
>RAH member. Especially you with your vast aviation knowledge and your
>excellently written postings that I do enjoy to read. At the same time you
>are the archetype of notorious attacker, and that's why I referred to you
>earlier.
>
>
>- Holger
>
>
Holger, you speak the truth. The thing is, it did not use to be that
way here. Many years ago, this was a group where civil discourse
occured and disagreement was just that: a disagreement, not a personal
attack.

That all changed with the advent of a few guys who could not voice
their opinions without loosing the flames in incredibly derogatory
ways.

I don't remember now who was first, but Paul Lamar, Craig Wall and Jim
(Captain Zoom) Campbell kind of exploded onto the group in spectacular
fashion years ago and things have gone downhill ever since.

It's really too bad.

None of those guys post here anymore. Craig Wall was so vitriollic
that his access priveleges got snubbed, for a while, by his employer.
He came back a while later but apparently didn't like what he saw here
anymore so he stayed away.

Paul Lamar was nearly incoherently argumentative about the subject of
auto engine conversions. This is a man who worked as an engineer for
the Jim Hall Chaparal sports car team. A team that broke all kinds of
new ground for innovative car building. You'd think that a guy with
that kind of background would be the kind of guy who would be
intrigued by innovation in experimental aviation. But no. One of
Paul's more infamous predictions was that the V configuration produced
vibrations that would turn the cranshaft to dust within (fill in the
blank here for hours) time. I don't remember the figure, but I think
it was under 500. Of course that turned out to be a false
prognostication, as did his arguments that auto engines would never
ever be able to cool properly no matter how big a radiator you hung on
the frame. The cylinders were too close together, the passages too
small etc etc. These comments too, from the automotive engineer,
turned out to be false. Auto engines cool just fine with proper sized
radiators and proper airflow through them.

Paul eventually left the group, apparently convinced we were not worth
"saving". Ironically, he went on to form an e-mail group devoted to
the conversion of the Mazda Rotory engine to aircraft use. That
engine, he thought, held promise, unlike the piston engines.

And then there was Jim Campbell. I wish I had kept his original
posting to this group. It was so wierd it literally made my hair
stand on end. It was a rant about truth (whatever that was, because
he didn't exactly say) in the tone of a religious fanatic. I
dismissed it immediately because it was obviously not from earth.
Others dismissed him publically in this group and paid the price when
he attacked them with the threat of lawsuits. That was before people
who know him posted information to the effect that he was a blowhard
and none of his lawsuits based on what people said in this group would
stand up in court.

They were right.

But now RAH was gripped with a malaise of bitter attacks and counter
attacks that escalated to the point where it was hardly worth logging
on anymore, there was so much erupting going on. It was actually
depressing. Jim finally left, although I suspect he keeps an eye on
things.

With his departure though, the sun did not come out and warm us all
up. By then, people had gotten spurred so often, they kept up the
regime of personal attacks. Anyone blundering in with an innocent
question was often savaged with flames and accusations, never to be
seen again.

At some point Bill Phillips appeared and introduced himself with a
number of really good essays and comments. Then something happened to
him and he began a series of personal attacks that he claimed he did
just for the fun of it. He was retired and spent a lot of time here
and as the attacks became more vicious, people responded in kind.

At the risk of raising BOb's ire yet again, he is one of those persons
who seemed to learn to fight here at the end of a short chain. There
are times when a newbie shows up here with a question that would seem
a juicy target for a BOb barb, and he treats him gently. But most of
the time he is as you see him, lashing out at those he disagrees with.

I believe there is a lot of interesting information available in this
group. Over the years I've copied and brought home many many pages of
replies and information.

You can take the high road and respond to those who appear so out of
control in a courteous manner without attacking the man behind the
words. Or you can take another road and just ignor him. A fire
without fuel eventually dies.

I do feel badly for those who lurk but do not enter for fear of being
blasted by the few who consider it their right and duty comment with a
flamethrower.

Corky Scott

[Free Speech Watch]

First, Bob Urban posts his "free speech" rant...

>Bla bla bla...
>In case you haven't noticed, I've never even
>remotely hinted about how you or anyone else
>here should practice FREE SPEECH. Please
>allow me the same freedom. It is my right as well
>as yours and protected by the US Constitution.

and then he follows it with a hypocritical ultimatum that directly
contradicts the lofty precepts he just invoked...

>Once again, Holger...
>Get your head right or **** off.

Obviously, "free speech" is fine and dandy in RAH as long as such
speech doesn't criticize poor behavior. In Urban's twisted little
world, it is perfectly OK for him to tell others to "get your head
right or **** off" -- which is strangely reminiscent of an Orwellian
Ministry Of Truth edict -- but it is not OK for others to tell him to
do the same or to even appeal for better behavior from all. Very
hypocritical indeed.

Reasonable people understand that while "free speech" includes a
limited right to publicly mouth-off with juvenile vitriol, it also
includes a limited right to publicly chide others for poor behavior
and a right to ask for better behavior from all. Only a fool would
characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.

[Ben Sego]

Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> You must not get out much. RAH is a nursery school compared to
> alt.folklore.urban
>
Well, the grammar and spelling is...erm...are better there. And to truly
be insulted you have to learn a lot of the background. But yeah, it's a
snake pit.

Ben "TWIAVBP" Sego

[- Barnyard BOb -]

"Gig Giacona" wrote:

>
>"Holger Stephan" > wrote in message > It doesn't
>have to be that way. RAH is really the most aggressive place on
>> the Internet I stop by regularly. I've heard from numerous others who
>> agree and a good part turned their back on RAH because of this.
>
>You must not get out much. RAH is a nursery school compared to
>alt.folklore.urban
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dead on, Gig.
It's comforting to know that folks like you exist
to balance out some of the...... 'Holger' flakes.


Barnyard BOb 'Urban' - supply your own legend

[Model Flyer]

"Ben Sego" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> >
> > You must not get out much. RAH is a nursery school compared to
> > alt.folklore.urban
> >
> Well, the grammar and spelling is...erm...are better there. And to
truly
> be insulted you have to learn a lot of the background. But yeah,
it's a
> snake pit.
>

Pilots generally don't take any bull****, that what I like about this
snake pit, straight talking from most. There are a few who simply
arn't worth the read.
--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)


> Ben "TWIAVBP" Sego
>
>
>

[Roger Halstead]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:10:31 -0600, - Barnyard BOb - >
wrote:

>
>"Gig Giacona" wrote:
>
>>
>>"Holger Stephan" > wrote in message > It doesn't
>>have to be that way. RAH is really the most aggressive place on
>>> the Internet I stop by regularly. I've heard from numerous others who
>>> agree and a good part turned their back on RAH because of this.
>>
>>You must not get out much. RAH is a nursery school compared to
>>alt.folklore.urban
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Dead on, Gig.
>It's comforting to know that folks like you exist
>to balance out some of the...... 'Holger' flakes.

Try alt.activism.noise.polution <:-)) for fobias.

Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>Barnyard BOb 'Urban' - supply your own legend

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Bruce A. Frank]

BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
hypocrisy.

Free Speech Watch wrote:
>
> First, Bob Urban posts his "free speech" rant...
>
> >Bla bla bla...
> >In case you haven't noticed, I've never even
> >remotely hinted about how you or anyone else
> >here should practice FREE SPEECH. Please
> >allow me the same freedom. It is my right as well
> >as yours and protected by the US Constitution.
>
> and then he follows it with a hypocritical ultimatum that directly
> contradicts the lofty precepts he just invoked...
>
> >Once again, Holger...
> >Get your head right or **** off.
>
> Obviously, "free speech" is fine and dandy in RAH as long as such
> speech doesn't criticize poor behavior. In Urban's twisted little
> world, it is perfectly OK for him to tell others to "get your head
> right or **** off" -- which is strangely reminiscent of an Orwellian
> Ministry Of Truth edict -- but it is not OK for others to tell him to
> do the same or to even appeal for better behavior from all. Very
> hypocritical indeed.
>
> Reasonable people understand that while "free speech" includes a
> limited right to publicly mouth-off with juvenile vitriol, it also
> includes a limited right to publicly chide others for poor behavior
> and a right to ask for better behavior from all. Only a fool would
> characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
> correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
> of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.

--
Bruce A. Frank

[Stealth Pilot]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:24:20 -0500, Free Speech Watch >
wrote:


>characterize the latter as an attack upon free speech. Holger was
>correct in his assessment, this newsgroup is much the poorer because
>of the juvenile antics of a handful of socially maladjusted posters.
>

seeing how to handle such maladjustment is a valuable lesson for some
who may otherwise encounter it in the general community without
adequate preparation.

in imposition of wills situations I still think that the sagest advise
came from W.C.Fields the comedian. "never argue with a fool."

Stealth (there is good in everyone ...sometimes) Pilot

[- Barnyard BOb -]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:53:05 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
> wrote:

>BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
>defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
>True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
>difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
>attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
>want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
>such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
>hypocrisy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why is it your ilk is COMPELLED to explain me,
define me and interpret whatever I have to say?
Don't you believe others can think for themselves?
'Do gooders' like you are the biggest threat and danger
to a free society there ever was.

Your compulsions, frothings and paranoia are not limited
to RAH. Seems you are a man hell bent on a mission,
tainting my personal mailbox with your brand of hype
and fears. Chill out, Bruce. The only enemy I see is
within yourself. Take a chill pill and maybe a vacation.
If that is not do-able....

Carry on with your dastardly distortions, shadings and defamations
of me. You are speaking to your choir boys and few else. I can't
imagine anyone who takes your point of view seriously, ever sees
my posts. Surely, I've been long filtered out. Do likewise and save
yourself a lot of angst, hearburn and elevated blood pressure.

AFAIK.....
Your expertise is welding.
Mine is more than five decades of flying.
It is no accident that I don't challenge your welding.
Yet, you have no problems butting heads with me
in almost every area you have little experience in.
Ignorance, like yours, obviously is no accident.
AND, I believe that makes you a serious flying accident
going somewhere to happen, Bruce. Get your project
in the air and prove me wrong. Until then, you are just
another loudmouth cut from cloth similar to jaun's.....
just slicker and smoooother around the edges.

Barnyard BOb -- 50 years of successful flight

[Holger Stephan]

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:20:57 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

> seeing how to handle such maladjustment is a valuable lesson for some
> who may otherwise encounter it in the general community without adequate
> preparation.
>
> in imposition of wills situations I still think that the sagest advise
> came from W.C.Fields the comedian. "never argue with a fool."

Education for how to deal with fools in real life? Is this what we need
RAH for?

We've seen the accident rates Ron Wanttaja posted. Whatever the causes
are, building and flying experimental planes is taking a high toll on our
group. You may say that is Darwin at work, purging us from the idiots. But
there are almost always families involved, and it makes a bad impression
on those who have little interest in keeping the skies open for idiots.
And it makes finding adequate insurance a challenge.

We all know how the information exchange is essential to keep us from
being the next idiot. RAH is the main international non-type specific
experimental aircraft discussion forum.

Unfortunately, we don't use it to its potential because the prevailing
attitude here has been driving a good number away and keeps others mute.
It would do our group good to invite as many as possible to our
discussions. The ones who can give advise and the ones who desperately
need it. Latter may ruin our next insurance quote otherwise.

- Holger

PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
just a matter of temperament. But that wealth of bashing here just to
bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
barking behind the save fence of the anonymous Internet.

[- Barnyard BOb -]

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

>PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
>heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
>the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
>you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
>just a matter of temperament. But that wealth of bashing here just to
>bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
>barking behind the save fence.....


"Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:

>BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
>defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
>True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
>difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
>attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
>want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
>such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
>hypocrisy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say it again, Holger....
say it again.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

[- Barnyard BOb -]

"Holger Stephan" opined:

>PS: I don't have anything against stronger language in the mids of a
>heated discussion. A while ago I defended BOb's position and attitude in
>the auto conversion controversy in the Bearhawk group (didn't do it for
>you, BOb, but to argue for the position and motivation). Sometimes it is
>just a matter of temperament.

>But that wealth of bashing here just to
>bash, with no connection to any technical discussion, is just pathetic
>barking behind the save fence.....


"Kill the messenger B. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:

>BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
>defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
>True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
>difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
>attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
>want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
>such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
>hypocrisy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Say it again, Holger....
say it again.


Barnyard BOb --
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

[Holger Stephan]

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:52:23 +0000, - Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>...
> "Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:
>...

I think you hurt and disappointed Bruce who says he regarded you as a
friend for many years. Bruce has never been a barker elsewhere (AFAIK).
Can't you two just meet or pick up the phone and talk it out?

- Holger

[- Barnyard BOb -]

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

>> in imposition of wills situations I still think that the sagest advise
>> came from W.C.Fields the comedian. "never argue with a fool."
>
>Education for how to deal with fools in real life? Is this what we need
>RAH for?
>
>We've seen the accident rates Ron Wanttaja posted. Whatever the causes
>are, building and flying experimental planes is taking a high toll on our
>group. You may say that is Darwin at work, purging us from the idiots. But
>there are almost always families involved, and it makes a bad impression
>on those who have little interest in keeping the skies open for idiots.
>And it makes finding adequate insurance a challenge.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You have hit on something solid, Holger.

As a messenger, I've faced everything that
I've ever been accused of and MORE.
Bruce Frank's personal attack on me is just
the latest derision to "kill the messenger".

What is sad, he could use what I have to share
more than anyone else here that I know.
Perhaps, it's time for me to heed W.C. Fields
advice more than anyone... or be the bigger fool.
When/if I do, the loss will not be mine.

If I screw the pooch tomorrow, my safety record
speaks for itself and I'm rewarded with insurance
rates that reflect my record. Let the challengers
do their thing until there is nothing left but widows,
orphans and self insurance. I've lived a safe and
sane approach and delivered the information, but
apparently my recommendations are too expensive
for the tastes of the omniscient wannabee herd.

TOO EXPENSIVE?
I'm sure weeping widows, orphans and aviation
insurance companies can hardly wait to enjoy
the cost savings.

Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

[- Barnyard BOb -]

>> "Bruce A. Frank" dastardly and loudly barked:
>>...
>
>I think you hurt and disappointed Bruce who says he regarded you as a
>friend for many years. Bruce has never been a barker elsewhere (AFAIK).
>Can't you two just meet or pick up the phone and talk it out?
>
>- Holger
++++++++++++++++++++++

Hurt is a two way street.

Perhaps you have not absorbed some of his most cutting public remarks.
This has been brewing for some time. I now realize what he thinks of
me and so does the rest of the world.... and vice versa. Most know
the difference between friends and loose lipped acquaintances
airing dirty laundry on the net.

I appreciate your attempt at peacemaker, tho.
Thanks,

Robert R. Urban aka Barnyard BOb aka Unka BOb

[Morgans]

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
> BOb's call for "free speech" is code for "any vulgarity, profanity, or
> defamation statement is acceptable and how dare you complain about it."
> True "free speech," an exchange of ideas and discussion of points of
> difference, is not what BOb has espouse for years. BOb's liberal
> attitude is that "everyone must be allowed to do or say anything they
> want as long as it doesn't contradict my opinions." One cannot expect
> such a person to admit of even slightly care about the depth of his
> hypocrisy.

> Bruce A. Frank

I gotta think you are off base on this call. Never have I heard BOb say
that you should not post your opinion. He is very set, and perhaps stubborn
in his views, and sometimes gets a bit obnoxious and overbearing, and tells
people that their views and opinions are full of sh*t, but he never has
tried to censor anyone.

Add to that, the fact that he is just plain wrong about auto conversions,
........., <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Dohm]

The original works OK with Netscape 4.61 and IE 6.0
but yours is much more user friendly!

Peter

Frederick Wilson wrote:
>
> Just for you Jerry
>
> http://home.insightbb.com/~fawilson/
>
> "Jerry Wass" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Weeell, I'd lak to see dem pitchers, but I'se gots Nutscrape 4.8 "N I don
> > Hahyou,
> > 'n I gess I don gits to see 'em--I tried punchin anything that looked like
> a
> > button...
> >
> > Frederick Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > Something about freedom to do so.
> > >
> > > "karel adams" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > could anyone enlighten me
> > > > as to what this has to do
> > > > with homebuilt aircraft?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Frederick Wilson" > schreef in bericht
> > > > news:_8Xqb.140821$Tr4.366531@attbi_s03...
> > > > > Today was a good day at my airfield. Please visit the link below and
> > > > see the
> > > > > Army's Finest training to protect our freedoms.
> > > > >
> > > > > This was at Camp Atterbury, IN (11II).
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let me know what you think.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frederick_a
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > Fred
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >

-