Boyington's natural metal corsair?

[old hoodoo]

I just heard a black sheep state on a history channel program that there was one paint stripped corsair (in which Boyington may have
flown (in addition to other aircraft) in combat?). Upon a comment it might be too easy to see in the air, Boyington's response that
it might attract more Japs to him (for him to shoot down). Anyone ever heard of this story. I don't recall reading about it in
Boyington's book but it might not have been a big deal to him.

AL

[Ogden Johnson III]

"old hoodoo" > wrote:

>I just heard a black sheep state on a history channel program that there was one paint stripped corsair (in which Boyington may have
>flown (in addition to other aircraft) in combat?). Upon a comment it might be too easy to see in the air, Boyington's response that
>it might attract more Japs to him (for him to shoot down). Anyone ever heard of this story. I don't recall reading about it in
>Boyington's book but it might not have been a big deal to him.

Blasphemy! How *could* you doubt an old VMF-214 pilot's TINS sea
story? Have you no shame? Remember, some day *you'll* be as old
as those remaining WWII-era Black Sheep are. Will you want
anyone doubting *your* sea stories when you hit that age?
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

[Elmshoot]

Things heard on the History and wings channel need to be taken with a grain of
salt. In the last week or so I have heard them report that Chas Lindbergs
flight to paris in 1927 took 19 hours and that Duke Chuningham was the last Ace
and he shot down 34 planes. You would think someone who listend to that stuff
during editing would at least have some idea about history and say that doesn't
sound right but who knows. Its like the internet if its in print it must be
true. Like all the crap stories about Jane F she is a traitor but lets keep the
story to only the sxxt she really did.
Sparky


>>I just heard a black sheep state on a history channel program that there was
>one paint stripped corsair (in which Boyington may have
>>flown (in addition to other aircraft) in combat?). Upon a comment it might
>be too easy to see in the air, Boyington's response that
>>it might attract more Japs to him (for him to shoot down). Anyone ever
>heard of this story. I don't recall reading about it in
>>Boyington's book but it might not have been a big deal to him.
>
>Blasphemy! How *could* you doubt an old VMF-214 pilot's TINS sea
>story? Have you no shame? Remember, some day *you'll* be as old
>as those remaining WWII-era Black Sheep are. Will you want
>anyone doubting *your* sea stories when you hit that age?
>--
>OJ III
>[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
>Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

[Ogden Johnson III]

(Elmshoot) wrote:

>Things heard on the History and wings channel need to be taken with a grain of
>salt. In the last week or so I have heard them report that Chas Lindbergs
>flight to paris in 1927 took 19 hours and that Duke Chuningham was the last Ace
>and he shot down 34 planes. You would think someone who listend to that stuff
>during editing would at least have some idea about history and say that doesn't
>sound right but who knows. Its like the internet if its in print it must be
>true. Like all the crap stories about Jane F she is a traitor but lets keep the
>story to only the sxxt she really did.

Apparently some people cannot recognize a chain-pull without
being hit over the head with a ;->.

However, warming up to the things you have brought up.

If one pays attention while watching the
History/Wings/Discovery/A&E empires, one can figure out
relatively easily which producers/production companies generally
put out accurate stuff and which ones don't.

Even that is not enough. Serious historians writing serious
tomes about history have been known to let errors creep in, or
even {gasp!} be biased about the topic they're writing on and
shade their work in the hope of instilling their view of the
topic in the reader.

Solution is the same in both cases. Never rely on a single
source [other, perhaps, than a trusted almanac for raw data on
dates/numbers/etcs.] when you are citing something as recognized
fact.

As to the specific old hoodoo post. I have no idea if what the
Black Sheep pilot, presumably a contemporary who flew with
Boyington in VMF-214, was telling was the truth or not. [If I
ever saw the show, and as a retired Marine I would have if it
came to my attention, that specific item didn't register. Which
suggests that, if I did see the show, it might have been an
off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

[Krztalizer]

Agree, OJ - >it might have been an
>off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
>entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
>History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
>a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.

I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring around
the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with Me 163s
_at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying ordeals,
they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not what
they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what it
was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the witness
that their memory has failed them.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Its always better to lose AN engine, than THE engine.

[Ogden Johnson III]

(Krztalizer) wrote:

>Agree, OJ -

>>it might have been an
>>off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
>>entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
>>History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
>>a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.

>I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring around
>the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with Me 163s
>_at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying ordeals,
>they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not what
>they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what it
>was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the witness
>that their memory has failed them.

Just so, Gordon. And it's not even combat memories. I know
damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
islands during WWII, but damned if I can find them in any history
books now. I've even seen the film footage, so I know it
happened.

[OK, I wasn't gonna do it, but in light of how this started ...
Anyone that missed the goiter-sized swelling in my cheek as I
typed the above isn't psychic enough to warrant consideration as
a regular in r.a.m.n. This ain't r.a.m, after all. We can tell
the real from the BS and the tongue-in-cheek here.]
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

[Krztalizer]

>Just so, Gordon. And it's not even combat memories. I know
>damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
>islands during WWII, but damned if I can find them in any history
>books now. I've even seen the film footage, so I know it
>happened.

I've seen it to - they used to show that footage regularly, on Veteran's Day.
Usually between showings of "The Longest Day" and "The Sand Pebbles".

>[OK, I wasn't gonna do it, but in light of how this started ...
>Anyone that missed the goiter-sized swelling in my cheek as I
>typed the above isn't psychic enough to warrant consideration as
>a regular in r.a.m.n. This ain't r.a.m, after all. We can tell
>the real from the BS and the tongue-in-cheek here.]

One would hope. :) I finally opted out of RAM after the latest assault from
racist, cross-posting nits.. Sooo glad they haven't carried it on into this
forum as well.

v/r
Gordon

[Mike Kanze]

OJ,

>I know damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
islands during WWII

Wasn't that the same campaign whose outcome was decided by the surface
action off Cape Titan?

--
Mike Kanze
(Whose arm muscles stay large from occasional femur-tugging.)

"Ogden Johnson III" > wrote in message
...
> (Krztalizer) wrote:
>
> >Agree, OJ -
>
> >>it might have been an
> >>off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
> >>entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
> >>History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
> >>a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.
>
> >I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring
around
> >the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with
Me 163s
> >_at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying
ordeals,
> >they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not
what
> >they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what
it
> >was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the
witness
> >that their memory has failed them.
>
> Just so, Gordon. And it's not even combat memories. I know
> damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
> islands during WWII, but damned if I can find them in any history
> books now. I've even seen the film footage, so I know it
> happened.
>
> [OK, I wasn't gonna do it, but in light of how this started ...
> Anyone that missed the goiter-sized swelling in my cheek as I
> typed the above isn't psychic enough to warrant consideration as
> a regular in r.a.m.n. This ain't r.a.m, after all. We can tell
> the real from the BS and the tongue-in-cheek here.]
> --
> OJ III
> [Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

[John Keeney]

"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
> Agree, OJ - >it might have been an
> >off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
> >entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
> >History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
> >a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.
>
> I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring
around
> the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with Me
163s
> _at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying
ordeals,
> they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not
what
> they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what
it
> was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the
witness
> that their memory has failed them.

When I looked at the photos my niece's husband brought back from
Iraq, he had the pictures labeled. One showed three C-17s at some
airport he was making a supply run to labeled as C-5s. As it was a
recent thing, with photos, it was quite easy to correct the identification.
Trying to do the same thing forty years from now working from memory...

[John Keeney]

"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
> Agree, OJ - >it might have been an
> >off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
> >entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
> >History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
> >a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.
>
> I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring
around
> the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with Me
163s
> _at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying
ordeals,
> they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not
what
> they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what
it
> was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the
witness
> that their memory has failed them.

When I looked at the photos my niece's husband brought back from
Iraq, he had the pictures labeled. One showed three C-17s at some
airport he was making a supply run to labeled as C-5s. As it was a
recent thing, with photos, it was quite easy to correct the identification.
Trying to do the same thing forty years from now working from memory...

[Jim McCartan]

> >I know damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
> islands during WWII
>
> Wasn't that the same campaign whose outcome was decided by the surface
> action off Cape Titan?
>
> --
> Mike Kanze
> (Whose arm muscles stay large from occasional femur-tugging.)

Thanks, in part, to Commander Eddington's heroic one-way scout mission.

AND Admiral Torre's brilliance.

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
Ogden Johnson III > writes:
> (Krztalizer) wrote:
Just so, Gordon. And it's not even combat memories. I know
> damned well that the USN and USMC took Gavabutu and Levu-Vana
> islands during WWII, but damned if I can find them in any history
> books now. I've even seen the film footage, so I know it
> happened.
>
> [OK, I wasn't gonna do it, but in light of how this started ...
> Anyone that missed the goiter-sized swelling in my cheek as I
> typed the above isn't psychic enough to warrant consideration as
> a regular in r.a.m.n. This ain't r.a.m, after all. We can tell
> the real from the BS and the tongue-in-cheek here.]

I must have missed that one. It must have taken place about the same
time we hit the Supply Depots at Daquiri. We came in low, under their
Radar...

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[MDinzey]

>
>I must have missed that one. It must have taken place about the same
>time we hit the Supply Depots at Daquiri. We came in low, under their
>Radar...

Poor Goerge Zipp...
The guy thinks he's Ethel Merman.

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(MDinzey) writes:
>>
>>I must have missed that one. It must have taken place about the same
>>time we hit the Supply Depots at Daquiri. We came in low, under their
>>Radar...
>
> Poor Goerge Zipp...
> The guy thinks he's Ethel Merman.

_That_ was Lt. Hurwitz.

Stiker was the squadron leader. He brought us in real low. But he
couldn't handle it.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[fudog50]

great question posed by hoodoo, and real interesting history stuff.

all the responses went off on tangents and never really addresed the
original question. Which means nobody that read it knows.

It is interesting enough to me to do some research, (not just a google
search). Anyone point me in the right direction? What was the name of
boyington's book you are referring to? and what particular history
channel did you hear this from?

thanks in advance for any info...

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:19:04 -0500, "John Keeney" >
wrote:

>
>"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
>> Agree, OJ - >it might have been an
>> >off-hand comment, inconsequential in terms of the thrust of the
>> >entire show.] Neither, probably, did the producers, or the
>> >History Channel. All they could do was present the interview as
>> >a FWIW and let the viewer make their own call.
>>
>> I've seen RAF veterans recall how they witnessed "rocket flak" roaring
>around
>> the skies over Berlin in 1944, similar statements about encounters with Me
>163s
>> _at night_. When these guys were young and going through terrifying
>ordeals,
>> they saw something that left an indelible imprint, however, it was not
>what
>> they thought. But after 6 decades of their minds trying to sort out what
>it
>> was, its sometimes impossible (and unkind) to successfully convince the
>witness
>> that their memory has failed them.
>
>When I looked at the photos my niece's husband brought back from
>Iraq, he had the pictures labeled. One showed three C-17s at some
>airport he was making a supply run to labeled as C-5s. As it was a
>recent thing, with photos, it was quite easy to correct the identification.
>Trying to do the same thing forty years from now working from memory...
>

[Krztalizer]

>
>great question posed by hoodoo, and real interesting history stuff.
>
>all the responses went off on tangents and never really addresed the
>original question.

I noticed that yours didn't either. Ok, I'll try to address it - in going
through approximately forty cartons of personal copies of all the company
papers of a vice president of Chance Vought through the war years, I did not
find any mention of an unpainted machine being sent to a field unit. Further,
stripping the paint off a bird in the salty, dusty or muddy conditions of the
Solomons would not make much sense. Proving something like this didn't happen
is difficult, but nothing in all those files about Corsair production mentioned
an all-metal ship going out to a wartime unit. That narrows it down to a
"squadron job", but I haven't heard any "Black Sheep" veteran bring up at a
reunion or museum symposium. Anythings possible, but without a photo its just
a guess.

If you find out anything about the aircraft in question, either a date, Buno.,
or other details, there are people on this newsgroup that would know amplifying
info. I'd love to see it.

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Its always better to lose AN engine, than THE engine.

[fudog50]

Hey Gordon,

You noticed I didn't address the question? I think I addressed it
rather well, thank you. I didn't provide an answer, because
admittingly I don't know the answer.

Quite different than your statement, " I noticed that yours didn't
either ". At least I stayed on topic.

Thanks for providing the info, very interesting. I'm going to P'Cola
next month and will do some digging at the museum. I was a volunteer
tour guide there in 98-00, I'll look through the archives there in the
library, and talk to some of the old-timers.

They have a display upstairs of a pacific island marine air facility.
Very cool, complete with a corsair, jeep, and a coupla huts, (ops,
little bar, sleeping quarters, etc.)

"keep em flyin!"



On 02 Apr 2004 07:05:34 GMT, (Krztalizer) wrote:

>>
>>great question posed by hoodoo, and real interesting history stuff.
>>
>>all the responses went off on tangents and never really addresed the
>>original question.
>
>I noticed that yours didn't either. Ok, I'll try to address it - in going
>through approximately forty cartons of personal copies of all the company
>papers of a vice president of Chance Vought through the war years, I did not
>find any mention of an unpainted machine being sent to a field unit. Further,
>stripping the paint off a bird in the salty, dusty or muddy conditions of the
>Solomons would not make much sense. Proving something like this didn't happen
>is difficult, but nothing in all those files about Corsair production mentioned
>an all-metal ship going out to a wartime unit. That narrows it down to a
>"squadron job", but I haven't heard any "Black Sheep" veteran bring up at a
>reunion or museum symposium. Anythings possible, but without a photo its just
>a guess.
>
> If you find out anything about the aircraft in question, either a date, Buno.,
>or other details, there are people on this newsgroup that would know amplifying
>info. I'd love to see it.
>
>v/r
>Gordon
><====(A+C====>
> USN SAR
>
>Its always better to lose AN engine, than THE engine.

[Elmshoot]

Foodog,
A good family friend still drives the bus out to the flight line he has been
SIQ for a while but his name is Paul Siverly great guy and Naval Aviator. Any
way I'm a retired naval aviator with 949 traps and a lifetime model builder and
flier. I'm doing a PBM and I'm looking for some interesting color schemes for
my PBM. I do not want the dark blue so the best I can do is the Pannama cannel
color scheme as white and grey on top. I know the -1 version had avery
actractive yellow wing one but I am looking at the -3 to -5 version any help
would be appriciated and i will buy you a Cubi special at the bar.
Sparky




>Thanks for providing the info, very interesting. I'm going to P'Cola
>next month and will do some digging at the museum. I was a volunteer
>tour guide there in 98-00, I'll look through the archives there in the
>library, and talk to some of the

[fudog50]

Thanks sparky!

Hey I got your email,,,I'll be in touch before I get there,,,should be
around the 14th of May..

On 03 Apr 2004 04:05:34 GMT, (Elmshoot) wrote:

>Foodog,
>A good family friend still drives the bus out to the flight line he has been
>SIQ for a while but his name is Paul Siverly great guy and Naval Aviator. Any
>way I'm a retired naval aviator with 949 traps and a lifetime model builder and
>flier. I'm doing a PBM and I'm looking for some interesting color schemes for
>my PBM. I do not want the dark blue so the best I can do is the Pannama cannel
>color scheme as white and grey on top. I know the -1 version had avery
>actractive yellow wing one but I am looking at the -3 to -5 version any help
>would be appriciated and i will buy you a Cubi special at the bar.
>Sparky
>
>
>
>
>>Thanks for providing the info, very interesting. I'm going to P'Cola
>>next month and will do some digging at the museum. I was a volunteer
>>tour guide there in 98-00, I'll look through the archives there in the
>>library, and talk to some of the
>

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
fudog50 > wrote:

> great question posed by hoodoo, and real interesting history stuff.
>
> all the responses went off on tangents and never really addresed the
> original question. Which means nobody that read it knows.
>
> It is interesting enough to me to do some research, (not just a google
> search). Anyone point me in the right direction? What was the name of
> boyington's book you are referring to? and what particular history
> channel did you hear this from?
>
> thanks in advance for any info...
>

His book was "Baa, Baa, Blach Sheep," published about 1959 or 1960. I
read his book then, but do not recall his mentioning having a bare-metal
Corsair. IMHO, Boyington would have mentioned it if he had done so.

[fudog50]

noted orval,
thanks


On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:06:25 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> fudog50 > wrote:
>
>> great question posed by hoodoo, and real interesting history stuff.
>>
>> all the responses went off on tangents and never really addresed the
>> original question. Which means nobody that read it knows.
>>
>> It is interesting enough to me to do some research, (not just a google
>> search). Anyone point me in the right direction? What was the name of
>> boyington's book you are referring to? and what particular history
>> channel did you hear this from?
>>
>> thanks in advance for any info...
>>
>
>His book was "Baa, Baa, Blach Sheep," published about 1959 or 1960. I
>read his book then, but do not recall his mentioning having a bare-metal
>Corsair. IMHO, Boyington would have mentioned it if he had done so.