water inlets on ship

[mah]

Not really an aviation topic, but at least naval.

Was looking at a book on the Iowa class battleships. Went through the
engineering section and saw the design of the engines. A thought came
to mind - where does the cooling water come from or are they single pass
engines with the steam exhausted overboard. That sounds grossly
inefficient and makes more sense to have a closed loop design with
cooling water.

Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling? Or is it
all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.

Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)

Thanks in advance

MAH

[Larry]

"mah" > wrote in message ...
> Not really an aviation topic, but at least naval.
>
> Was looking at a book on the Iowa class battleships. Went through the
> engineering section and saw the design of the engines. A thought came
> to mind - where does the cooling water come from or are they single pass
> engines with the steam exhausted overboard. That sounds grossly
> inefficient and makes more sense to have a closed loop design with
> cooling water.
>
> Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
> opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling? Or is it
> all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.
>
> Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
> if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> MAH

My experience was Aviation and it's been a while since I studied the boiler
cycle for my Surface Warfare Specialist designation. I did locate this
document which gives some details:
http://www.chemistry.usna.edu/navapps/PDF/Water%20Treatment.pdf and answers
some of your questions.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'in a previous life'

[w4okw]

It has been a long time since I studied a steam plant -like at OCS in 1962,
but there are indeed "condensers" on the bottom of the ship that convart the
steam back to water and feed it back to the boiler for re-use.

Probably one of our "black shoe" brethren can give us a better
details/explanation.

tc
"mah" > wrote in message ...
> Not really an aviation topic, but at least naval.
>
> Was looking at a book on the Iowa class battleships. Went through the
> engineering section and saw the design of the engines. A thought came
> to mind - where does the cooling water come from or are they single pass
> engines with the steam exhausted overboard. That sounds grossly
> inefficient and makes more sense to have a closed loop design with
> cooling water.
>
> Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
> opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling? Or is it
> all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.
>
> Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
> if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> MAH

[John R Weiss]

"mah" > wrote...
>
> Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
> opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling? Or is it
> all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.
>
> Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
> if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)

The "sea chests" or water intakes are on the bottom of the hull. Same for
virtually any modern steam-powered ship (including aircraft carriers). How that
water is distributed and used differs among ships.

[Keith Willshaw]

"mah" > wrote in message ...
> Not really an aviation topic, but at least naval.
>
> Was looking at a book on the Iowa class battleships. Went through the
> engineering section and saw the design of the engines. A thought came
> to mind - where does the cooling water come from or are they single pass
> engines with the steam exhausted overboard. That sounds grossly
> inefficient and makes more sense to have a closed loop design with
> cooling water.
>
> Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
> opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling?

Yes seawater for the condensers is drawn in below the waterline
and discharged the same way

> Or is it
> all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.
>

That would require more throughput than is available

> Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
> if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)
>

Pretty much. Even gas turbine and diesel ships need cooling water
and nuclear power is just a diiferent way of boiling water.

Keith

[Pechs1]

keith-<< Pretty much. Even gas turbine and diesel ships need cooling water
and nuclear power is just a diiferent way of boiling water. >><BR><BR>


But cooling water for the nukes is a closed system, yes? I know they still take
on water to make for drinking and the cats, but for cooling of the nuke power
plant, that doesn't go over the side-or does it??
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Elmshoot]

If I recall my Naval science 101 taught by Lt. Tom "Truxton" Calhoon. The steam
plants that we studied were the 600 and 1200 PSI power plants which is what
most of the Naval ships use. The steam that is boiled for the boilers is a
closed loop system. Nothing is lost other than leaks and a steam leak at 600 or
1200 PSI is a big deal. Like your cars cooling system it is a closed loop
system, if stuff leaks out you see the car on the side of the road. Now there
are scoops on the bottom of the ships hull, sea chests that are used to help
return the steam back to water.

In a nuc it is the same, you still need sea water too cool the hot water back
to water. Keeping the radioactive stuff on one side and the cool stuff on the
other. I think that is how we cased the soviets subs is that they were not
clean and had a leak in the system.


After Enterprise hit Bishops Rock in 87 the divers brought up pieces of the
rock from the sea chests. It isn't uncommon for there to be fish and other
things stuck in them and they do sometimes require a diver to clean them out.

Sparky

[Andrew Venor]

Elmshoot wrote:
> If I recall my Naval science 101 taught by Lt. Tom "Truxton" Calhoon. The steam
> plants that we studied were the 600 and 1200 PSI power plants which is what
> most of the Naval ships use. The steam that is boiled for the boilers is a
> closed loop system. Nothing is lost other than leaks and a steam leak at 600 or
> 1200 PSI is a big deal. Like your cars cooling system it is a closed loop
> system, if stuff leaks out you see the car on the side of the road. Now there
> are scoops on the bottom of the ships hull, sea chests that are used to help
> return the steam back to water.
>
> In a nuc it is the same, you still need sea water too cool the hot water back
> to water. Keeping the radioactive stuff on one side and the cool stuff on the
> other. I think that is how we cased the soviets subs is that they were not
> clean and had a leak in the system.
>
>
> After Enterprise hit Bishops Rock in 87 the divers brought up pieces of the
> rock from the sea chests. It isn't uncommon for there to be fish and other
> things stuck in them and they do sometimes require a diver to clean them out.
>
> Sparky

Dead fish, seaweed, mud, trash bags, and a pair of live sharks are just
a few things that I've cleaned out of main engine condenser inlets in my
time. We were able to keep one of the sharks alive in the engine room
for about a week between Alameda and Hawaii using a washtub and fresh
sea water from a condenser drain.

The one thing that did surprise me was surprised that passing volcanic
ash from Mt. Penatubo through the condensers on the Lincoln left them as
clean and shiny as they were at Newport News when we christened the
ship. Although the ash did erode away the zinc's.

ALV

[Mike Kanze]

>It isn't uncommon for there to be fish and other things stuck in them and
they do sometimes require a diver to clean them out.

....Or those nice little venomous sea snakes that inhabit the South China
Sea. Watching out for these was always a big deal whenever a ship had to
put a diver over the side in that part of the world.

--
Mike Kanze

"The hot dog is the reductio ad absurdum of American eating. The Sicilian
in the ditch, though he may never be President, knows better: he puts a
slice of onion between his slabs of bread, not a cartridge filled with the
sweepings of abattoirs."

- H. L. Mencken (1926)

Hooray for the start of ballpark franks and Major League Baseball this week!


"Elmshoot" > wrote in message
...
> [rest snipped]

[Tex Houston]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
...
> Hooray for the start of ballpark franks and Major League Baseball this
week!
>
>
We don't have professional baseball here. We have the Colorado Rockies.

Tex

[Mike Kanze]

Tex,

You can always root for another burg's team, if you prefer. <g>

Happy Easter to all!

--
Mike Kanze

"The hot dog is the reductio ad absurdum of American eating. The Sicilian
in the ditch, though he may never be President, knows better: he puts a
slice of onion between his slabs of bread, not a cartridge filled with the
sweepings of abattoirs."

- H. L. Mencken (1926)

Hooray for the start of ballpark franks and Major League Baseball this week!


"Tex Houston" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hooray for the start of ballpark franks and Major League Baseball this
> week!
> >
> >
> We don't have professional baseball here. We have the Colorado Rockies.
>
> Tex
>
>
>

[Tex Houston]

"Mike Kanze" > wrote in message
...
> Tex,
>
> You can always root for another burg's team, if you prefer. <g>
>
> Happy Easter to all!
>
> --
> Mike Kanze


I did a random drawing and got the Chicago Cubs. Is that a good thing?

Tex

[nice guy]

think about it
what would seawater do to the system
look to nuc subs for solution

"mah" > wrote in message ...
> Not really an aviation topic, but at least naval.
>
> Was looking at a book on the Iowa class battleships. Went through the
> engineering section and saw the design of the engines. A thought came
> to mind - where does the cooling water come from or are they single pass
> engines with the steam exhausted overboard. That sounds grossly
> inefficient and makes more sense to have a closed loop design with
> cooling water.
>
> Is there a set of scoops below the waterline or some type of flush
> opening below the waterline to draw in seawater for cooling? Or is it
> all "fresh" water that has been drawn through the evaporators.
>
> Is the system similar on any ship? (There, finally a tie into aviation
> if a carrier uses a similar powerplant)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> MAH

[Pechs1]

tex-<< We don't have professional baseball here. We have the Colorado Rockies.
>><BR><BR>

No ****....Cleveland(home town) isn't doin' well either. How 'bout them Tigers
tho!!!
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Harry Andreas]

In article >,
(Pechs1) wrote:

> keith-<< Pretty much. Even gas turbine and diesel ships need cooling water
> and nuclear power is just a diiferent way of boiling water. >><BR><BR>
>
>
> But cooling water for the nukes is a closed system, yes? I know they
still take
> on water to make for drinking and the cats, but for cooling of the nuke power
> plant, that doesn't go over the side-or does it??

One of my early jobs was in a 1000 MW generator facility. Coal fired for
commercial power, but there's really no difference in principle, just in
size.

The water used in the steam system needs to be ultra, ultra clean
and pH 7.000
Any contamination will erode away the boiler tubes and cause leaks right
quick. It is a constant problem. Each power plant has their own chemical
water purification facility right there on site, and the ships will have that,
too, seperate from the drinking water system.
Since that water is so expensive (in a resources sense) to make, it is
always condensed and recycled. In a properly working system, very
little make-up water is needed. The water quality is constantly monitored
as sudden contamination levels can tell you a lot about what's happening
inside and can be used to prevent disasters.
To cool the condensers we used river water (the Ohio river in my case)
but seawater works well, too. It's just the constant crap that's in
the water attaching itself to the condenser fins, which reduces thermal
performance and makes a backwash necessary occasionally to get rid
of it. Biologics and some kind of slime. I imagine barnacles would get
in there too.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur