View Full Version : Near mishap today
Did a simulated power out emergency today, and
killed the throttle near 4500 ft. Established my
best rate of glide (70mph) and as I found my most
viable field to land in, we were going over the
procedures for such an occasion. Eventually I
reached a grassy field that actually looked
decent, surface and all.
As I set up an attitude and realistic entry we
had really lost altitude, and now, I gave it
full throttle. Sputter, sputter. We were dropping.
My CFI's hands were suddenly moving fast as
a blur. It seemed like a long time, and I just
stayed on my landing course fully prepared to
set it in the field, and then Broommm! the engine
revved up and it was climb baby climb!
Now that's one I'm not gonna forget!
---
Mark
Flaps_50!
May 7th 10, 12:09 PM
On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
> Did a simulated power out emergency today, and
> killed the throttle near 4500 ft. *Established my
> best rate of glide (70mph) and as I found my most
> viable field to land in, we were going over the
> procedures for such an occasion. Eventually I
> reached a grassy field that actually looked
> decent, surface and all.
>
> As I set up an attitude and realistic entry we
> had really lost altitude, and now, I gave it
> full throttle. *Sputter, sputter. We were dropping.
>
> My CFI's hands were suddenly moving fast as
> a blur. *It seemed like a long time, and I just
> stayed on my landing course fully prepared to
> set it in the field, and then Broommm! the engine
> revved up and it was climb baby climb!
>
> Now that's one I'm not gonna forget!
>
Did you forget to clear the engine every 1000'?
Cheers
On May 7, 7:09*am, "Flaps_50!" > wrote:
> On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Did a simulated power out emergency today, and
> > killed the throttle near 4500 ft. *Established my
> > best rate of glide (70mph) and as I found my most
> > viable field to land in, we were going over the
> > procedures for such an occasion. Eventually I
> > reached a grassy field that actually looked
> > decent, surface and all.
>
> > As I set up an attitude and realistic entry we
> > had really lost altitude, and now, I gave it
> > full throttle. *Sputter, sputter. We were dropping.
>
> > My CFI's hands were suddenly moving fast as
> > a blur. *It seemed like a long time, and I just
> > stayed on my landing course fully prepared to
> > set it in the field, and then Broommm! the engine
> > revved up and it was climb baby climb!
>
> > Now that's one I'm not gonna forget!
>
> Did you forget to clear the engine every 1000'?
>
> Cheers- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
the descent. Is that what you mean?
thanks,
Mark
Ęslop
May 7th 10, 03:06 PM
"Mark" > wrote in message
...
>Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>
>But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
>the descent. Is that what you mean?
Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
such occurrences.
On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
> "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>
> >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
> >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>
> Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
> such occurrences.
I'm speechless.
We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
this academy. I'll try another. If the head instructor
knew, this one would be fired.
In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
possible but there was something barely visible running
across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
---
Mark
a[_3_]
May 7th 10, 06:00 PM
On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
> On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>
> > "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>
> > >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
> > >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>
> > Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
> > such occurrences.
>
> I'm speechless.
>
> We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
> this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
> knew, this one would be fired.
>
> In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
> serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
> up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
> possible but there was something barely visible running
> across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
>
It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened. "Hands
flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
gliding. If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.
My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from altitude
it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.
Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
..
..
On May 7, 12:00*pm, a > wrote:
> Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
> go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
> "cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
> guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
> that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
Pretty much same here, on the ground, I just don't see the need
jamming the throttle forward. Steady forward pressure is all I do and
it's about 5 seconds when I am at full throttle.
I accelerate the same whether it's position to hold or cleared for
immediate. Only difference is I just get off the brakes faster for
cleared for immediate.
Ari[_2_]
May 7th 10, 07:05 PM
On Fri, 7 May 2010 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:
> On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>> "Mark" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>>
>>>But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
>>>the descent. Is that what you mean?
>>
>> Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
>> such occurrences.
>
> I'm speechless.
And clueless, you haven't the first idea how to choose a competent
CFI, Mark(ie). /lol/
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
Ari[_2_]
May 7th 10, 07:07 PM
On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:
> On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
>> On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Mark" > wrote in message
>>
...
>>
>>> >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>>
>>> >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
>>> >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>>
>>> Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
>>> such occurrences.
>>
>> I'm speechless.
>>
>> We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
>> this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
>> knew, this one would be fired.
>>
>> In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
>> serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
>> up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
>> possible but there was something barely visible running
>> across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
>>
> It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened. "Hands
> flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
> My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
> to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
> gliding. If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
> to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
> expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.
It would be useful to know what plane or simulator he was in but the
assclown didn't think that was pertinent info.
*lol*
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
Ari[_2_]
May 7th 10, 07:15 PM
On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:
> Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
> go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
> "cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
> guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
> that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
In my Velocity, at least that, prolly quicker. In my 42A, a little
longer as it usually is my preference on complex twins.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
Dave[_19_]
May 8th 10, 01:32 AM
About 3 seconds..
Cherokee Warrior, Lyc O 320...
Dave
On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a > wrote:
>On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
>> On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>>
>> > "Mark" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>>
>> > >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
>> > >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>>
>> > Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
>> > such occurrences.
>>
>> I'm speechless.
>>
>> We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
>> this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
>> knew, this one would be fired.
>>
>> In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
>> serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
>> up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
>> possible but there was something barely visible running
>> across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
>>
>It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened. "Hands
>flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
>My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
>to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
>gliding. If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
>to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
>expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.
>
>My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from altitude
>it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
>too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
>that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
>it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.
>
>Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
>go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
>"cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
>guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
>that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
>.
>
>.
On May 7, 1:00*pm, a > wrote:
> On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>
> > > "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>
> > > >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
> > > >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>
> > > Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
> > > such occurrences.
>
> > I'm speechless.
>
> > We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
> > this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
> > knew, this one would be fired.
>
> > In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
> > serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
> > up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
> > possible but there was something barely visible running
> > across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
>
> It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened.
Yes, I've been trying to catch up with him to do that, but
now I'm convinced that it was not clearing the engine.
We spent considerable time going over the radio calls
and frequency, along with incidentals, ie, fuel cut-off,
opening the door in the event of a bent frame on
on impact, etc.
>*"Hands
> flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
Not "all over", but just an extremely fast combination of
manuvers that made the engine respond.(carb heat and
throttle)
> My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
> to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
> gliding.
Yes.
>If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
> to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
> expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.
Cessna 150 in this case. I fly others.
> My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from
altitude
> it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
> too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
> that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
> it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.
> Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
> go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
> "cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
> guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
> that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
> .
>
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On May 7, 2:15*pm, Ari > wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:00:10 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:
> > Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
> > go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
> > "cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
> > guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
> > that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
>
> In my Velocity...
I didn't realize you had a Velocity. I understand
they are pitch sensitive.
---
Mark
a[_3_]
May 8th 10, 05:20 PM
On May 8, 7:10*am, Mark > wrote:
> On May 7, 1:00*pm, a > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 7, 11:41*am, Mark > wrote:
>
> > > On May 7, 10:06*am, "Ęslop" > wrote:
>
> > > > "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> > > ...
>
> > > > >Had carb heat on, as rpms were below the arc.
>
> > > > >But no, I wasn't instructed to input throttle during
> > > > >the descent. Is that what you mean?
>
> > > > Your CFI should have been doing that. All of mine did, every time. Prevents
> > > > such occurrences.
>
> > > I'm speechless.
>
> > > We have a choice of appx.7 cfi's to choose from at
> > > this academy. *I'll try another. If the head instructor
> > > knew, this one would be fired.
>
> > > In hindsight, the gravity of what happened yesterday is
> > > serious. I barely had time to pull out. On the way back
> > > up I was compelled to keep scanning that field. It looked
> > > possible but there was something barely visible running
> > > across it. Now I'm thinking it was a ditch.
>
> > It would be useful to simply ask your CFI what happened.
>
> Yes, I've been trying to catch up with him to do that, but
> now I'm convinced that it was not clearing the engine.
> We spent considerable time going over the radio calls
> and frequency, along with incidentals, ie, fuel cut-off,
> opening the door in the event of a bent frame on
> on impact, etc.
>
> *>*"Hands
>
> > flying all over" doesn't cut it, there are only a few things to do.
>
> Not "all over", but just an extremely fast combination of
> manuvers that made the engine respond.(carb heat and
> throttle)
>
> > My guess would have been carb ice: If you were coming down from 4500
> > to say 1000 at 500 fpm that would be 6 to 8 minutes of throttle closed
> > gliding.
>
> Yes.
>
> >If the RH was high I am not at all sure I'd expect carb heat
> > to keep ahead of the icing for that length of time, but others more
> > expert with those airplanes may have a different opinion.
>
> Cessna 150 in this case. I fly others.
>
> *> My Mooney has an injected engine, but when coming down from
> altitude
>
> > it is very rarely with a closed throttle, and cowl flaps are in play
> > too, engines are to be babied and thermal shock is a bad thing. For
> > that matter, the time the throttle is moved the fastest, and even then
> > it's not very fast, is when I decide to go around.
> > Here's a question for the aviators among us. How long do you take to
> > go from idle to take-off power when you're "position and hold" to
> > "cleared for immediate"? As I sit here and think about it, I'm
> > guessing it takes me a slow count to 5 to get to full throttle, and
> > that is assuming RPMs follow throttle position pretty closely.
> > .
>
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
Real life stuff.
maintain control!
Carb heat
maintain control
Mixture
maintain control
fuel pump
maintain control
switch tanks
a/s for best endurance
then if not talking to ATC call 121.5
Once long ago in a Mooney Ranger (not an injected engine) I had the
carb heat cable fail during a NDB approach in IMC. I tried everything
on the check list, then prop pitch, landing lights, landing gear,
cowl flaps etc. Turns out -- this is the lesson, guys -- if there's
a lot of carb ice, leaning the mixture works. It gave me enough engine
to get to an alternate. Some people know how to make an engine
backfire -- that is, ignite the mixture in the intake manifold and
blow out carb ice. I don't know how to do that, and since my airplane
gets pulled by an IO 360 I don't worry about that anymore.
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