Orienting the Approach.

[Brian Whatcott]

On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
when flying in from the west:

"Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."

Got the picture?
What is the first turn direction?
On which runway do you turn final from base?

:-)

Brian W

[[email protected]]

On May 31, 5:09*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> when flying in from the west:
>
> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> * Got the picture?
> What is the first turn direction?
> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

Wooops, maybe the handoff something got jagged up on where you were in
relation to the airport.

No question about it, I would have gotten a clarification from ATC
before initiating the approach as I can't imagine they wanting you to
cross mid field for 17L

On your last question, you are only cleared for 17L so it's not a
matter of which runway.

[150flivver]

On May 31, 5:09*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> when flying in from the west:
>
> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> * Got the picture?
> What is the first turn direction?
> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

Sounds like you'd turn left onto the downwind, turn right base and fly
past 17R to turn final and land on 17L.

[[email protected]]

brian whatcott > wrote:
> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> when flying in from the west:
>
> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> Got the picture?
> What is the first turn direction?
> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

I think my response would be along the lines of "WTF do you want me to do?",
although phrased a bit more gentle.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Mike Adams[_1_]]

wrote:

> brian whatcott > wrote:
>> when flying in from the west:
>>
>> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>>
>> Got the picture?
>> What is the first turn direction?
>> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> I think my response would be along the lines of "WTF do you want me to
> do?", although phrased a bit more gentle.

What we haven't been told is what is the situation regarding runway 17R.
Presumably there is one, but is it active? is it handled by the same tower
frequency? is there any known traffic?

Without any further direction or indication that it would be a problem, I
would just turn left, and enter a right downwind, turn base and fly past
17R and land on 17L as instructed. If the airport is not busy, or 17R is
closed, it could be a completely normal instruction.

I would also read back the clearance completely, to just make sure I'm
doing what they're expecting. .

Mike

[Dave Doe]

In article <aa7be375-132b-467d-b79a-3257bd8c57a7
@q23g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, says...
>
> On May 31, 5:09*pm, brian whatcott > wrote:
> > On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> > facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> > when flying in from the west:
> >
> > "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
> >
> > * Got the picture?
> > What is the first turn direction?
> > On which runway do you turn final from base?
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Brian W
>
> Sounds like you'd turn left onto the downwind, turn right base and fly
> past 17R to turn final and land on 17L.

Sounds good to me.

--
Duncan.

[Dave Doe]

In article >, betwys1
@sbcglobal.net says...
>
> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> when flying in from the west:
>
> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> Got the picture?
> What is the first turn direction?
> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

Perhaps it's a left-hand circuit (std) and they want you to join
downwind, right-hand. That's what it sounds like to me.


--
Duncan.

[a[_3_]]

On May 31, 10:58*pm, Dave Doe > wrote:
> In article >, betwys1
> @sbcglobal.net says...
>
>
>
> > On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> > facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> > when flying in from the west:
>
> > "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> > * Got the picture?
> > What is the first turn direction?
> > On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> > :-)
>
> > Brian W
>
> Perhaps it's a left-hand circuit (std) and they want you to join
> downwind, right-hand. *That's what it sounds like to me.
>
> --
> Duncan.

The rote reply would be to fly an upwind on 17L, cross wind across the
thresholds of 35R and if the runways are far enough apart 35L, then
fly the downwind as cleared. I'd be asking tower a LOT of questions
though. The approach might make sense if 17R-35L was closed: right
hand traffic would keep airplanes over the airport instead of whatever
might be to the west of 17L-35R

Eyeballs outside the cockpit for sure!

[VOR-DME[_3_]]

In article >,
says...


>What is the first turn direction?
>On which runway do you turn final from base?
>

If you're thinking he is asking for a sidestep, that's not how I would
interpret it. I would assume this instruction means they are not using
17R/35L, however if I get an instruction that sends me across other
potential traffic, I just run it by them, "Right downwind One Seven
left, my base leg will cross one sevn right three five left axis" then
it's 50/50 as to whether I get "correct, cross....." or "correction,
right downwind one seven right, cleared to land".

[Brian Whatcott]

Dave Doe wrote:
> /snip/
>>> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
>>> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
>>> when flying in from the west:
>>>
>>> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>>>
>>> Got the picture?
>>> What is the first turn direction?
>>> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Brian W
&&&
>> Sounds like you'd turn left onto the downwind, turn right base and fly
>> past 17R to turn final and land on 17L.
>
> Sounds good to me.
>


Well, that's what I did, and there was no problem.
In fact the FAA recommended join is 45 degrees to the downwind leg, so a
left turn onto downwind was no issue.
Flying a right pattern across a parallel runway would only happen when
both runways are not in use, obviously.

Regards

Brian W
p.s. As people remark to me all the time: there are only old pilots
left, any more. GenAv is suffering from an emigration of flight schools
to Brazil (!!) would you believe!

[Dave Doe]

In article >, betwys1
@sbcglobal.net says...
>
> Dave Doe wrote:
> > /snip/
> >>> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
> >>> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> >>> when flying in from the west:
> >>>
> >>> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
> >>>
> >>> Got the picture?
> >>> What is the first turn direction?
> >>> On which runway do you turn final from base?
> >>>
> >>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Brian W
> &&&
> >> Sounds like you'd turn left onto the downwind, turn right base and fly
> >> past 17R to turn final and land on 17L.
> >
> > Sounds good to me.
> >
>
>
> Well, that's what I did, and there was no problem.
> In fact the FAA recommended join is 45 degrees to the downwind leg, so a
> left turn onto downwind was no issue.
> Flying a right pattern across a parallel runway would only happen when
> both runways are not in use, obviously.

Not at all. It's up to the controllers surely (I assume we're talking
about a towered/controlled field!?!?)

--
Duncan.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

brian whatcott wrote:
>
> Flying a right pattern across a parallel runway would only happen
> when both runways are not in use, obviously.
>

Obviously? Isn't the one you're making the approach to in use?

[Jon Woellhaf]

I have received almost identical instructions when approaching Centennial,
CO (KAPA) from the west. Centennial has runways 17R and 17L and both were in
use when I was cleared to land on 17L.

"brian whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower facility
> under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
> when flying in from the west:
>
> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>
> Got the picture?
> What is the first turn direction?
> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

Dave Doe wrote:
> In article >, betwys1
> @sbcglobal.net says...
>> Dave Doe wrote:
>>> /snip/
>>>>> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower
>>>>> facility under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
>>>>> when flying in from the west:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>>>>>
>>>>> Got the picture?
>>>>> What is the first turn direction?
>>>>> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian W
>> &&&
>>>> Sounds like you'd turn left onto the downwind, turn right base and fly
>>>> past 17R to turn final and land on 17L.
>>> Sounds good to me.
>>>
>>
>> Well, that's what I did, and there was no problem.
>> In fact the FAA recommended join is 45 degrees to the downwind leg, so a
>> left turn onto downwind was no issue.
>> Flying a right pattern across a parallel runway would only happen when
>> both runways are not in use, obviously.
>
> Not at all. It's up to the controllers surely (I assume we're talking
> about a towered/controlled field!?!?)
>

This was the situation on Sunday at Wiley Post,(PWA) at Oklahoma City.

I would expect Oke City Approach (at Will Rogers) to vector traffic
appropriately, if PWA 17L & R were both active. But it's the
controllers' call, no doubt!

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> brian whatcott wrote:
>> Flying a right pattern across a parallel runway would only happen
>> when both runways are not in use, obviously.
>>
>
> Obviously? Isn't the one you're making the approach to in use?
>
>
>
>
Yes indeed, the clearance was to 17L PWA from the west.
17R a shorter runway there, was not in use.

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

I would sympathize with a green pilot on his first approach across
finals of an active approach!

Regards

Brian W

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
> I have received almost identical instructions when approaching Centennial,
> CO (KAPA) from the west. Centennial has runways 17R and 17L and both were in
> use when I was cleared to land on 17L.
>
> "brian whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On transfer from a Class C approach controller to a Class D tower facility
>> under the umbrella, I got the following direction yesterday
>> when flying in from the west:
>>
>> "Fly a right downwind to runway 17L , clear to land."
>>
>> Got the picture?
>> What is the first turn direction?
>> On which runway do you turn final from base?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Brian W
>
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Edward A. Falk" > wrote

> That's what I'm thinking, but I'd definitely ask them to confirm they
> want me to cross the 17R approach.

Why? The instructions were clear, there was only one way to fly that
approach, so the controller knew he would be crossing the approach path for
17R.

This isn't at all related to taxi instructions. Take a quick look up the
glide slope as you approach it, then do what "the man" says.
--
Jim in NC