photo landing on SeeYou 3.95

[Frank[_12_]]

I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. Except this time it
showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
seems to be no way to get rid of it. I have been using SeeYou for at
least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
declaration errors that can lead to this situation. However, this
time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.

I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
to be screwed up too. I can't get an activation email, and since I
can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
and therefore can't post. I also looked at their forum postings about
'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
just something I'm doing wrong).

Anyone else had this problem with SeeYou 3.95?

Frank (TA)

[Paul Remde]

Hi Frank,

I have seen that a few times. It normally goes away when I edit the
turnpoint sectors to reflect those used in the flight. To do that in
SeeYou, go to the Edit menu and select "Flight Properties". Then go to the
Observation Zone tab.

I think there are other tips to getting past the issue, but I don't remember
them at this moment. I'll think about it. It may have been other settings
in the Flight Properties windows.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
>I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. Except this time it
> showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> seems to be no way to get rid of it. I have been using SeeYou for at
> least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> declaration errors that can lead to this situation. However, this
> time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> to be screwed up too. I can't get an activation email, and since I
> can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> and therefore can't post. I also looked at their forum postings about
> 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> Anyone else had this problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> Frank (TA)

[Frank[_12_]]

On Jun 8, 7:03*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> I have seen that a few times. *It normally goes away when I edit the
> turnpoint sectors to reflect those used in the flight. *To do that in
> SeeYou, go to the Edit menu and select "Flight Properties". *Then go to the
> Observation Zone tab.
>
> I think there are other tips to getting past the issue, but I don't remember
> them at this moment. *I'll think about it. *It may have been other settings
> in the Flight Properties windows.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > Frank (TA)

Paul,

Been there, done that ;-). I have also seen 'photo landings' when I
didn't have the task set up properly, or I forgot to change the task
type to 'Assigned Area Task'. However, I have done all that properly
(or at least I have double and triple-checked the settings and can't
find anything wrong).

Very frustrating. I just upgraded from V3.81 to V3.95, and I'm
beginning to wonder if there is some new setting in 3.95 that I don't
know about.

Frank (TA)

[Frank[_12_]]

On Jun 8, 8:26*pm, Frank > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 7:03*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Frank,
>
> > I have seen that a few times. *It normally goes away when I edit the
> > turnpoint sectors to reflect those used in the flight. *To do that in
> > SeeYou, go to the Edit menu and select "Flight Properties". *Then go to the
> > Observation Zone tab.
>
> > I think there are other tips to getting past the issue, but I don't remember
> > them at this moment. *I'll think about it. *It may have been other settings
> > in the Flight Properties windows.
>
> > Best Regards,
>
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> > "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> > >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > > Frank (TA)
>
More on the photo landing problem:

I found that I was able to move the photo landing at 2:06 point to
earlier in the flight by changing the 'Task Time' value (new in
v3.95??) to a number less than 2:06. IOW, if I change this value from
its default '00:00:00' to 01:00:00, then the photo landing takes place
exactly 1 hour into the flight. I can move the photo landing point
anywhere up to and including 2:06, but changing the time to something
larger than 2:06 doesn't move the photo landing point to the right -
strange!

My imagination or a bug in 3.95?

Frank (TA)

> Paul,
>
> Been there, done that ;-). *I have also seen 'photo landings' when I
> didn't have the task set up properly, or I forgot to change the task
> type to 'Assigned Area Task'. *However, I have done all that properly
> (or at least I have double and triple-checked the settings and can't
> find anything wrong).
>
> Very frustrating. *I just upgraded from V3.81 to V3.95, and I'm
> beginning to wonder if there is some new setting in 3.95 that I don't
> know about.
>
> Frank (TA)

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jun 8, 5:49*pm, Frank > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 8:26*pm, Frank > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 7:03*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
> > > Hi Frank,
>
> > > I have seen that a few times. *It normally goes away when I edit the
> > > turnpoint sectors to reflect those used in the flight. *To do that in
> > > SeeYou, go to the Edit menu and select "Flight Properties". *Then go to the
> > > Observation Zone tab.
>
> > > I think there are other tips to getting past the issue, but I don't remember
> > > them at this moment. *I'll think about it. *It may have been other settings
> > > in the Flight Properties windows.
>
> > > Best Regards,
>
> > > Paul Remde
> > > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> > > "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > > > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > > > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > > > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > > > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > > > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > > > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > > > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > > > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > > > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > > > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > > > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > > > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > > > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > > > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > > > Frank (TA)
>
> More on the *photo landing problem:
>
> I found that I was able to move the photo landing at 2:06 point to
> earlier in the flight by changing the 'Task Time' value (new in
> v3.95??) to a number less than 2:06. *IOW, if I change this value from
> its default '00:00:00' to 01:00:00, then the photo landing takes place
> exactly 1 hour into the flight. *I can move the photo landing point
> anywhere up to and including 2:06, but changing the time to something
> larger than 2:06 doesn't move the photo landing point to the right -
> strange!
>
> My imagination or a bug in 3.95?
>
> Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> > Paul,
>
> > Been there, done that ;-). *I have also seen 'photo landings' when I
> > didn't have the task set up properly, or I forgot to change the task
> > type to 'Assigned Area Task'. *However, I have done all that properly
> > (or at least I have double and triple-checked the settings and can't
> > find anything wrong).
>
> > Very frustrating. *I just upgraded from V3.81 to V3.95, and I'm
> > beginning to wonder if there is some new setting in 3.95 that I don't
> > know about.
>
> > Frank (TA)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Frank,

Try this

Go to Edit then Filght Properties Window - Task Options Folder -
Set the type to AAT and set a task time.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jun 8, 5:49*pm, Frank > wrote:
> On Jun 8, 8:26*pm, Frank > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 7:03*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
> > > Hi Frank,
>
> > > I have seen that a few times. *It normally goes away when I edit the
> > > turnpoint sectors to reflect those used in the flight. *To do that in
> > > SeeYou, go to the Edit menu and select "Flight Properties". *Then go to the
> > > Observation Zone tab.
>
> > > I think there are other tips to getting past the issue, but I don't remember
> > > them at this moment. *I'll think about it. *It may have been other settings
> > > in the Flight Properties windows.
>
> > > Best Regards,
>
> > > Paul Remde
> > > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> > > "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > > > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > > > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > > > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > > > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > > > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > > > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > > > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > > > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > > > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > > > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > > > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > > > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > > > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > > > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > > > Frank (TA)
>
> More on the *photo landing problem:
>
> I found that I was able to move the photo landing at 2:06 point to
> earlier in the flight by changing the 'Task Time' value (new in
> v3.95??) to a number less than 2:06. *IOW, if I change this value from
> its default '00:00:00' to 01:00:00, then the photo landing takes place
> exactly 1 hour into the flight. *I can move the photo landing point
> anywhere up to and including 2:06, but changing the time to something
> larger than 2:06 doesn't move the photo landing point to the right -
> strange!
>
> My imagination or a bug in 3.95?
>
> Frank (TA)
>
>
>
> > Paul,
>
> > Been there, done that ;-). *I have also seen 'photo landings' when I
> > didn't have the task set up properly, or I forgot to change the task
> > type to 'Assigned Area Task'. *However, I have done all that properly
> > (or at least I have double and triple-checked the settings and can't
> > find anything wrong).
>
> > Very frustrating. *I just upgraded from V3.81 to V3.95, and I'm
> > beginning to wonder if there is some new setting in 3.95 that I don't
> > know about.
>
> > Frank (TA)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Frank,

Post your flight on the OLC and maybe we can figure it out.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
>I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. Except this time it
> showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> seems to be no way to get rid of it. I have been using SeeYou for at
> least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> declaration errors that can lead to this situation. However, this
> time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> to be screwed up too. I can't get an activation email, and since I
> can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> and therefore can't post. I also looked at their forum postings about
> 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> Anyone else had this problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> Frank (TA)


Without a copy of the igc file I can't be sure, but if it was an AAT (which
it looks like from the task description), I would guess that the photo
landing is when the time ran out (i.e. 2h30 from the start).

[Frank[_12_]]

On Jun 9, 5:40*am, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
> "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
> Without a copy of the igc file I can't be sure, but if it was an AAT (which
> it looks like from the task description), I would guess that the photo
> landing is when the time ran out (i.e. 2h30 from the start).

Posting to OLC was the right thing to do. As soon as I saw the trace,
I noticed that the ENL levels were spiking way up, even though I have
a pure glider. There happened to be a big spike at 2:06 that
coincided with a low point, and I guess the algorithm in SeeYou
decided that I had started the engine there. It would be nice if
'Photo Landing' were replaced with 'Engine Start' in this case - would
have avoid a lot of electron abuse ;-).

TA

[kirk.stant]

On Jun 9, 7:37*am, Frank > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 5:40*am, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> > >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > > Frank (TA)
>
> > Without a copy of the igc file I can't be sure, but if it was an AAT (which
> > it looks like from the task description), I would guess that the photo
> > landing is when the time ran out (i.e. 2h30 from the start).
>
> Posting to OLC was the right thing to do. As soon as I saw the trace,
> I noticed that the ENL levels were spiking way up, even though I have
> a pure glider. *There happened to be a big spike at 2:06 that
> coincided with a low point, and I guess the algorithm in SeeYou
> decided that I had started the engine there. *It would be nice if
> 'Photo Landing' were replaced with 'Engine Start' in this case - would
> have avoid a lot of electron abuse ;-).
>
> TA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This problem (Photo Landing) is caused by a noise spike (opening the
air vent?) causing SeeYou to think you started your motor . Go to the
Flight Attributes (or whatever it's called) and check the "Glider
Only" box.

Kirk

[Mike the Strike]

On Jun 9, 5:46*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 7:37*am, Frank > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 5:40*am, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
>
> > > "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > > > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. *Except this time it
> > > > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > > > seems to be no way to get rid of it. *I have been using SeeYou for at
> > > > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > > > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. *However, this
> > > > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > > > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > > > to be screwed up too. *I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > > > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > > > and therefore can't post. *I also looked at their forum postings about
> > > > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > > > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > > > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > > > Anyone else had this *problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > > > Frank (TA)
>
> > > Without a copy of the igc file I can't be sure, but if it was an AAT (which
> > > it looks like from the task description), I would guess that the photo
> > > landing is when the time ran out (i.e. 2h30 from the start).
>
> > Posting to OLC was the right thing to do. As soon as I saw the trace,
> > I noticed that the ENL levels were spiking way up, even though I have
> > a pure glider. *There happened to be a big spike at 2:06 that
> > coincided with a low point, and I guess the algorithm in SeeYou
> > decided that I had started the engine there. *It would be nice if
> > 'Photo Landing' were replaced with 'Engine Start' in this case - would
> > have avoid a lot of electron abuse ;-).
>
> > TA- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> This problem (Photo Landing) is caused by a noise spike (opening the
> air vent?) causing SeeYou to think you started your motor . *Go to the
> Flight Attributes (or whatever it's called) and check the "Glider
> Only" box.
>
> Kirk

Yep - I had exactly the same problem when a gear door stuck open.
"Pure glider" didn't fix it either, as the noise was loud throughout
the flight, but this should work for an isolated noise spike. I was
able to modify mine by changing the start and end of soaring times.

Mike

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 9, 6:47*am, Mike the Strike > wrote:

> > This problem (Photo Landing) is caused by a noise spike (opening the
> > air vent?) causing SeeYou to think you started your motor . *Go to the
> > Flight Attributes (or whatever it's called) and check the "Glider
> > Only" box.
>
> > Kirk
>
> Yep - I had exactly the same problem when a gear door stuck open.
> "Pure glider" didn't fix it either, as the noise was loud *throughout
> the flight, but this should work for an isolated noise spike. *I was
> able to modify mine *by changing the start and end of soaring times.
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why is that people cannot design software to ignore the ENL record
when the glider is not a motor glider? I am often irritated by having
to adjust my start time on OLC because it uses the noise level even
though I am not a motor glider.

When I asked OLC for ENL to be ignored I was asked "how shall we
determine your start of soaring flight". I responded "same as for
logs that have no ENL record". Nothing changed, it still uses ENL for
pure gliders.


Andy

[Greg Arnold[_3_]]

On 6/9/2010 8:24 AM, Andy wrote:

>
> Why is that people cannot design software to ignore the ENL record
> when the glider is not a motor glider? I am often irritated by having
> to adjust my start time on OLC because it uses the noise level even
> though I am not a motor glider.
>
> When I asked OLC for ENL to be ignored I was asked "how shall we
> determine your start of soaring flight". I responded "same as for
> logs that have no ENL record". Nothing changed, it still uses ENL for
> pure gliders.
>
>
> Andy


OLC may use noise level to help determine when you are on tow.

On SeeYou, the noise level on my flights drops noticably when I retract
the gear, as you would expect. However, it also drops when I get off
tow. I suspect that the recorder can pick up the noise of the towplane.
Or the slower speed off tow reduces wind noise, though the noise level
on tow still is noticably higher than on a final glide flown at towing
speed.

I am looking at my most recent flight. When I got off tow, the noise
went from 60 to 40 on the y axis of the SeeYou noise graph (it went from
250 to 60 when I retracted the gear).

[jcarlyle]

I checked my last flight, too. It's from my LS8.

When I select "Engine Noise Level" in SeeYou V3.95 all that appears to
be shown is a green trace. Close inspection of the barograph trace
under high zoom does show a 4 second red dash and a 4 second yellow
dash when the tow plane revs up and a 16 second red dash during
landing roll out on grass. The tow portion of the trace <may> have a
slightly yellower color, but it's really hard to say.

However, when I select "GPS Status" I see a purple trace (which SeeYou
labels "Engine/Tow") during the period I was on tow, another purple
trace during the period I was thermalling with my gear down (during a
low save), but a green trace during the period my gear was down and
the spoilers were out just prior to landing. There is no level shown
in "GPS Status" - just "GPS Bad", "Engine/Tow", GPS OK", "Circ. Left
and "Circ. Right".

Seems to be curious behavior, especially if OLC is counting on it for
scoring. It's unclear whether it's due to SeeYou or my Volkslogger.

-John

> OLC may use noise level to help determine when you are on tow.
>
> On SeeYou, the noise level on my flights drops noticably when I retract
> the gear, as you would expect. However, it also drops when I get off
> tow. I suspect that the recorder can pick up the noise of the towplane.
> Or the slower speed off tow reduces wind noise, though the noise level
> on tow still is noticably higher than on a final glide flown at towing
> speed.
>
> I am looking at my most recent flight. When I got off tow, the noise
> went from 60 to 40 on the y axis of the SeeYou noise graph (it went from
> 250 to 60 when I retracted the gear).

[Greg Arnold[_3_]]

Bring up the graph of altitudes in SeeYou, and click on "engine noise
level." It will plot sound on a graph. Much easier to read.



On 6/9/2010 9:58 AM, jcarlyle wrote:
> I checked my last flight, too. It's from my LS8.
>
> When I select "Engine Noise Level" in SeeYou V3.95 all that appears to
> be shown is a green trace. Close inspection of the barograph trace
> under high zoom does show a 4 second red dash and a 4 second yellow
> dash when the tow plane revs up and a 16 second red dash during
> landing roll out on grass. The tow portion of the trace<may> have a
> slightly yellower color, but it's really hard to say.
>
> However, when I select "GPS Status" I see a purple trace (which SeeYou
> labels "Engine/Tow") during the period I was on tow, another purple
> trace during the period I was thermalling with my gear down (during a
> low save), but a green trace during the period my gear was down and
> the spoilers were out just prior to landing. There is no level shown
> in "GPS Status" - just "GPS Bad", "Engine/Tow", GPS OK", "Circ. Left
> and "Circ. Right".
>
> Seems to be curious behavior, especially if OLC is counting on it for
> scoring. It's unclear whether it's due to SeeYou or my Volkslogger.
>
> -John
>
>> OLC may use noise level to help determine when you are on tow.
>>
>> On SeeYou, the noise level on my flights drops noticably when I retract
>> the gear, as you would expect. However, it also drops when I get off
>> tow. I suspect that the recorder can pick up the noise of the towplane.
>> Or the slower speed off tow reduces wind noise, though the noise level
>> on tow still is noticably higher than on a final glide flown at towing
>> speed.
>>
>> I am looking at my most recent flight. When I got off tow, the noise
>> went from 60 to 40 on the y axis of the SeeYou noise graph (it went from
>> 250 to 60 when I retracted the gear).
>

[jcarlyle]

Thanks, Greg. I got to the plot by using View|Graph|Engine Noise
Level. It is certainly easier to read, but it brings up a new
question.

On tow I have an average noise level of 200. Off tow the noise level
goes to 30. Then I lowered the gear, and the noise level rose to 100.
The tow and the gear lowered sections are colored purple (meaning
Engine/Tow) if you select "GPS Status" for coloring. This is all fine.
However, just prior to landing I lower the gear and starting using
spoilers. The average noise is now 150 - but this section is colored
green, not purple, if you select "GPS Status" for coloring.

Something is inconsistent.

-John

On Jun 9, 1:28 pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
> Bring up the graph of altitudes in SeeYou, and click on "engine noise
> level." It will plot sound on a graph. Much easier to read.
>
> On 6/9/2010 9:58 AM, jcarlyle wrote:
>
> > I checked my last flight, too. It's from my LS8.
>
> > When I select "Engine Noise Level" in SeeYou V3.95 all that appears to
> > be shown is a green trace. Close inspection of the barograph trace
> > under high zoom does show a 4 second red dash and a 4 second yellow
> > dash when the tow plane revs up and a 16 second red dash during
> > landing roll out on grass. The tow portion of the trace<may> have a
> > slightly yellower color, but it's really hard to say.
>
> > However, when I select "GPS Status" I see a purple trace (which SeeYou
> > labels "Engine/Tow") during the period I was on tow, another purple
> > trace during the period I was thermalling with my gear down (during a
> > low save), but a green trace during the period my gear was down and
> > the spoilers were out just prior to landing. There is no level shown
> > in "GPS Status" - just "GPS Bad", "Engine/Tow", GPS OK", "Circ. Left
> > and "Circ. Right".
>
> > Seems to be curious behavior, especially if OLC is counting on it for
> > scoring. It's unclear whether it's due to SeeYou or my Volkslogger.
>
> > -John
>
> >> OLC may use noise level to help determine when you are on tow.
>
> >> On SeeYou, the noise level on my flights drops noticably when I retract
> >> the gear, as you would expect. However, it also drops when I get off
> >> tow. I suspect that the recorder can pick up the noise of the towplane.
> >> Or the slower speed off tow reduces wind noise, though the noise level
> >> on tow still is noticably higher than on a final glide flown at towing
> >> speed.
>
> >> I am looking at my most recent flight. When I got off tow, the noise
> >> went from 60 to 40 on the y axis of the SeeYou noise graph (it went from
> >> 250 to 60 when I retracted the gear).

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

"Frank" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 5:40 am, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
> "Frank" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I flew a TAT today at the Cordele, Ga USA contest, and as I always do
> > I opened my flight in SeeYou 3.95 for analysis. Except this time it
> > showed a 'photo landing' between the 2nd and 3rd turn areas, and there
> > seems to be no way to get rid of it. I have been using SeeYou for at
> > least 8 years, and am pretty familiar with the common sorts of task
> > declaration errors that can lead to this situation. However, this
> > time I can't get rid of it for the life of me.
>
> > I attempted to post this on the Naviter support forum, but that seems
> > to be screwed up too. I can't get an activation email, and since I
> > can't get an activation email, I can't complete the forum registration
> > and therefore can't post. I also looked at their forum postings about
> > 'photo landings' and it seems that the SeeYou folks aren't really
> > interested in addressing this issue (assuming it *is* an issue and not
> > just something I'm doing wrong).
>
> > Anyone else had this problem with SeeYou 3.95?
>
> > Frank (TA)
>
> Without a copy of the igc file I can't be sure, but if it was an AAT
> (which
> it looks like from the task description), I would guess that the photo
> landing is when the time ran out (i.e. 2h30 from the start).

Posting to OLC was the right thing to do. As soon as I saw the trace,
I noticed that the ENL levels were spiking way up, even though I have
a pure glider. There happened to be a big spike at 2:06 that
coincided with a low point, and I guess the algorithm in SeeYou
decided that I had started the engine there. It would be nice if
'Photo Landing' were replaced with 'Engine Start' in this case - would
have avoid a lot of electron abuse ;-).

TA

Now that your trace has been posted where I can get at it, I've looked at
it.
I can't see any noise in SeeYou.
If you set the task time to 2:30, you get a photo outlanding after 2 hours
30 (no surprise there!),
If you set the task time to 3:30 you get a completed flight.
If you leave the tasktime at 00:00:00 it gives you a completed flight.

I ran it against a UK scoring script with a 2:30 task time and it scores you
just fine (3h25m38s, 154miles, 44.9 mph) although it still shows a photo
outlanding at the task timeout time (as it should).
I don't think SeeYou can create good results from an AAT without the help of
a scoring script, it's OK with Racing tasks without a script (simple
computation of distance vs time).

good luck with the comp!

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 9, 3:39*pm, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
>If you set the task time to 2:30, you get a photo outlanding after 2 >hours 30 (no surprise there!),

Under what set of rules is a maximum task time ever set?

Andy

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

"Andy" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 3:39 pm, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
>If you set the task time to 2:30, you get a photo outlanding after 2 >hours
>30 (no surprise there!),

Under what set of rules is a maximum task time ever set?

Andy

FAI Annex 3a.

[Bruce]

On 2010/06/09 11:56 PM, jcarlyle wrote:
> Thanks, Greg. I got to the plot by using View|Graph|Engine Noise
> Level. It is certainly easier to read, but it brings up a new
> question.
>
> On tow I have an average noise level of 200. Off tow the noise level
> goes to 30. Then I lowered the gear, and the noise level rose to 100.
> The tow and the gear lowered sections are colored purple (meaning
> Engine/Tow) if you select "GPS Status" for coloring. This is all fine.
> However, just prior to landing I lower the gear and starting using
> spoilers. The average noise is now 150 - but this section is colored
> green, not purple, if you select "GPS Status" for coloring.
>
> Something is inconsistent.
>
> -John
>
> On Jun 9, 1:28 pm, Greg > wrote:
>> Bring up the graph of altitudes in SeeYou, and click on "engine noise
>> level." It will plot sound on a graph. Much easier to read.
>>
>> On 6/9/2010 9:58 AM, jcarlyle wrote:
>>
>>> I checked my last flight, too. It's from my LS8.
>>
>>> When I select "Engine Noise Level" in SeeYou V3.95 all that appears to
>>> be shown is a green trace. Close inspection of the barograph trace
>>> under high zoom does show a 4 second red dash and a 4 second yellow
>>> dash when the tow plane revs up and a 16 second red dash during
>>> landing roll out on grass. The tow portion of the trace<may> have a
>>> slightly yellower color, but it's really hard to say.
>>
>>> However, when I select "GPS Status" I see a purple trace (which SeeYou
>>> labels "Engine/Tow") during the period I was on tow, another purple
>>> trace during the period I was thermalling with my gear down (during a
>>> low save), but a green trace during the period my gear was down and
>>> the spoilers were out just prior to landing. There is no level shown
>>> in "GPS Status" - just "GPS Bad", "Engine/Tow", GPS OK", "Circ. Left
>>> and "Circ. Right".
>>
>>> Seems to be curious behavior, especially if OLC is counting on it for
>>> scoring. It's unclear whether it's due to SeeYou or my Volkslogger.
>>
>>> -John
>>
>>>> OLC may use noise level to help determine when you are on tow.
>>
>>>> On SeeYou, the noise level on my flights drops noticably when I retract
>>>> the gear, as you would expect. However, it also drops when I get off
>>>> tow. I suspect that the recorder can pick up the noise of the towplane.
>>>> Or the slower speed off tow reduces wind noise, though the noise level
>>>> on tow still is noticably higher than on a final glide flown at towing
>>>> speed.
>>
>>>> I am looking at my most recent flight. When I got off tow, the noise
>>>> went from 60 to 40 on the y axis of the SeeYou noise graph (it went from
>>>> 250 to 60 when I retracted the gear).
>
Possibly SeeYou is using the descent rate to say - noise is high but I
am descending - that's OK. And conversely noise level high and ascending
(thermalling with the gear down etc. ) that looks like an engine?

Not sure - someone should ask Erazem or Andrej.

Bruce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

[Bruce Hoult]

On Jun 10, 11:05*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jun 9, 3:39*pm, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:
>
> >If you set the task time to 2:30, you get a photo outlanding after 2 >hours 30 (no surprise there!),
>
> Under what set of rules is a maximum task time ever set?

On any day that has a CIvil Twilight, for a start.

I don't know what they do if there are gliding contests north of a
line from Oslo to St Petersberg.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 9, 11:05*pm, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:

> FAI Annex 3a.

Sorry can't find it there. Can you please give a paragraph
reference.

6.2.2 Assigned Area Task, mentions a Minimum task time which is the
same as US rules. A search for maximum task time returned no results.

Andy

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 10, 2:16*am, Bruce Hoult > wrote:

>
> On any day that has a CIvil Twilight, for a start.
>

No, that may be used to define the time at which a task will end even
if the glider has not landed, but it does not define a maximum task
time in the context being discussed. Maximum task time would imply a
maximum allowed duration between the time of starting and the end of
the scoring flight.

Andy

[Ron Gleason]

On Jun 10, 7:55*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2:16*am, Bruce Hoult > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On any day that has a CIvil Twilight, for a start.
>
> No, that may be used to define the time at which a task will end even
> if the glider has not landed, but it does not define a maximum task
> time in the context being discussed. Maximum task time would imply a
> maximum allowed duration between the time of starting and the end of
> the scoring flight.
>
> Andy

Rule 10.1.10
Finish closes - At contest sunset time

therefore task end = Finish close

Contest sunset time defined as

Rule 10.1.8
Contest sunset - the CD shall designate a contest sunset time,
which shall be approximately 10 minutes prior to the earliest time of
sunset at the contest site during the period of the contest.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jun 10, 9:16*am, Ron Gleason > wrote:
> Rule 10.1.10
> * *Finish closes - At contest sunset time
>
> therefore task end = Finish close
>
> Contest sunset time defined as
>
> Rule 10.1.8
> * *Contest sunset - the CD shall designate a contest sunset time,
> which shall be approximately 10 minutes prior to the earliest time of
> sunset at the contest site during the period of the contest.

Sure, but what point are you making. What is under discussion is that
SeeYou ended a flight after 2.5 hours because a max task time of 2.5
hours had been defined. It had nothing to do with sunset.

What I was trying to find out was why SeeYou even has a definition for
maximum task time. To that end I asked what set of rules defined a
maximum task time. So far there is no indication that any does.

Andy

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

"Andy" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 11:05 pm, "Peter Wyld" > wrote:

> FAI Annex 3a.

Sorry can't find it there. Can you please give a paragraph
reference.

6.2.2 Assigned Area Task, mentions a Minimum task time which is the
same as US rules. A search for maximum task time returned no results.

Andy

I obviously fell into the trap of not answering your question correctly...
As I said before, it's not a maximum but a minimum. SeeYou has a setting
for Task Time, what your scoring script does with it is up to you. Perhaps
you should ask Naviter to change the flag to "Task Time Out" instead of
"Photo Landing" when the task time expires. It has occasionally caused me to
wonder what was happening after a long day scoring contest traces until I
realised it was just the clock going 'ping'.
However, I was trying to answer the OP and not just give SeeYou a hard time.

The answer is, If you don't want to run a scoring script (i.e. most of the
time) and you have an AAT flight, don't set a task time and SeeYou will give
you all the information you need. If you do set a tasktime, SeeYou will
treat the timeout as a photolanding. Tasktime is (I believe) only of
consequence when trying to sort out the scores for a competition.