Maximum autonomy for expert glider pilots?

[Mxsmanic]

If a glider pilot is perfect in every way, how long can he remain in the air?
It's it reasonable to say that there will always be conditions near his
aircraft that will allow him to gain or maintain altitude, or is it a roll of
the dice?

I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some way to
gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are these
pilots just lucky as well?

[[email protected]]

On Jul 2, 9:55*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> If a glider pilot is perfect in every way, how long can he remain in the air?

ASKED AND ANSWERED.

TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
Mxsmanic > wrote:

> If a glider pilot is perfect in every way, how long can he remain in the air?
> It's it reasonable to say that there will always be conditions near his
> aircraft that will allow him to gain or maintain altitude, or is it a roll of
> the dice?
>
> I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
> hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some way to
> gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are these
> pilots just lucky as well?

Having done about 250 miles and 7.5 hours (in two flights) in a glider
last weekend, I'm probably qualified to answer this one....

Duration all depends on conditions. If it's a calm day with no
convection, take the glider's release altitude, divide it by his sink
rate, and that's how long he can stay airborne. (Roughly 20 minutes off
a 3,000ft tow.)

If it's a sunny day with good convective activity, the glider (with an
appropriately skilled pilot) can stay airborne until the sun angle gets
low enough for the convective activity to stop. On a good day, this is
many hours. My own personal record is just shy of 6 hours, and I'm
nothing special in that regard.

If it's a windy day that's blowing across a mountain at the right angle,
the glider can stay airborne until the wind stops. This can be many
days. They stopped recording a world record for glider duration some
decades ago because it turned into a simple test of endurance, and
people were falling asleep with disastrous consequences.

To answer your last question, it's a combination of luck and skill.
There is *not* always some way to gain altitude. Sometimes you just
strike out and cannot stay up. But on a good day, a pilot with
reasonable skill has a good enough chance to find something before he
reaches the ground that he can stay aloft for a long time.

The Glider Flying Handbook is available for free from the FAA is PDF
form:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/faa-h-8
083-13.pdf

If you're seriously curious about this stuff, it is well worth a read.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[[email protected]]

On Jul 3, 7:34*am, Mike Ash > wrote:

> To answer your last question, it's a combination of luck and skill.
> There is *not* always some way to gain altitude. Sometimes you just
> strike out and cannot stay up. But on a good day, a pilot with
> reasonable skill has a good enough chance to find something before he
> reaches the ground that he can stay aloft for a long time.

Mike,

Wouldn't you agree a good "preflight" would reduce or even eliminate
the luck factor?

Like you said, there are not always some way to gain altitude (no
thermals and no winds) but Mx from other posts and even here doesn't
seem to understand the preparation of flight part which reduces that
luck factor in my eyes exponentially.

Even I know in my student infancy in the flats of MS that gliding
activities in December will be severely hampered by winter :-)

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> On Jul 3, 7:34*am, Mike Ash > wrote:
>
> > To answer your last question, it's a combination of luck and skill.
> > There is *not* always some way to gain altitude. Sometimes you just
> > strike out and cannot stay up. But on a good day, a pilot with
> > reasonable skill has a good enough chance to find something before he
> > reaches the ground that he can stay aloft for a long time.
>
> Mike,
>
> Wouldn't you agree a good "preflight" would reduce or even eliminate
> the luck factor?

It will certainly give you a good idea of what to expect. Whether that
counts as reducing luck or simply adjusting expectations, well, that's
kind of a philosophical question I suppose. No doubt it's essential for
maximizing your enjoyment.

> Like you said, there are not always some way to gain altitude (no
> thermals and no winds) but Mx from other posts and even here doesn't
> seem to understand the preparation of flight part which reduces that
> luck factor in my eyes exponentially.

I always check soaring forecasts multiple times over the days leading up
to a glider flight, so I have a good idea what conditions will be like.
This allows me to plan the rest of the flight accordingly (such as I
can) and adapt to how things will be. However, you can never be 100%
sure, and sometimes you end up in a strange field far from home despite
all your preparation. (Sometimes you do it on purpose, of course.)

> Even I know in my student infancy in the flats of MS that gliding
> activities in December will be severely hampered by winter :-)

Out here where we have mountains, winter flying can be the best kind of
flying, actually. We get ridge and wave lift all throughout the winter,
and those are the kinds of lift where people set records.

But overall your point is correct; weather is highly variable, and if
you don't check it beforehand, your flight will probably not be very fun
or very long.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[[email protected]]

On Jul 3, 7:58*am, Mike Ash > wrote:

>. However, you can never be 100%
> sure, and sometimes you end up in a strange field far from home despite
> all your preparation. (Sometimes you do it on purpose, of course.)

Heck, this happens in power flight. LOL. Unforecasted IMC for a VFR
pilot would be the prime example.

> But overall your point is correct; weather is highly variable, and if
> you don't check it beforehand, your flight will probably not be very fun
> or very long.

I think this would be consistent no matter what you fly whether it be
glider or power flight.

I really think the luck factor is very minimal in a properly prepared
flight myself. Maybe bad luck, but day like today in MS and temps in
the 90's, severe clear, can't imagine no lift conditions.

Little update on my gliding arena.

Club is flying today and I am hoping to get a lesson in. Downside to
student status is you need two two pilots on hand so I emailed my
instructor to see if it's a good day for lessons.

Haven't heard from him yet. Club is breaking off from Pisgah and
moving to Woodbridge. Talk about convenient as it's only 4 miles from
my house. You can bet once I go solo, they will see me every Friday
they fly. (my self appointed flying day).

Club looking into buying either 2 single seat gliders or a tandem.
They have 1 PW and the Blanick now. Anticipated growth is very
surprising to me.

[Darkwing]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> If a glider pilot is perfect in every way, how long can he remain in the
> air?
> It's it reasonable to say that there will always be conditions near his
> aircraft that will allow him to gain or maintain altitude, or is it a roll
> of
> the dice?
>
> I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
> hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some
> way to
> gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are these
> pilots just lucky as well?


People still feed this troll? Damn. Guess I'll come back by in another 6
months and see if things have changed.

[Peter Dohm]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If a glider pilot is perfect in every way, how long can he remain in the
>> air?
>> It's it reasonable to say that there will always be conditions near his
>> aircraft that will allow him to gain or maintain altitude, or is it a
>> roll of
>> the dice?
>>
>> I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
>> hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some
>> way to
>> gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are
>> these
>> pilots just lucky as well?
>
>
> People still feed this troll? Damn. Guess I'll come back by in another 6
> months and see if things have changed.

Delplored by many and 'tis said the troll's belly bulgeth greatly!

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote

> People still feed this troll? Damn. Guess I'll come back by in another 6
> months and see if things have changed.

Better make it a couple years... He prolly will still be getting feed,
though.

Shame that so many people think he is not a troll, isn't it?
--
Jim in NC

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> "Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > People still feed this troll? Damn. Guess I'll come back by in another 6
> > months and see if things have changed.
>
> Better make it a couple years... He prolly will still be getting feed,
> though.
>
> Shame that so many people think he is not a troll, isn't it?

If the initial message is reasonable, why not respond to it? I go based
on content, not author. If and when he degenerates into trolling, I
quit. But until that point, why reject perfectly reasonable
conversation-starters just because of authorship?

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> On Jul 3, 7:58*am, Mike Ash > wrote:
>
> >. However, you can never be 100%
> > sure, and sometimes you end up in a strange field far from home despite
> > all your preparation. (Sometimes you do it on purpose, of course.)
>
> Heck, this happens in power flight. LOL. Unforecasted IMC for a VFR
> pilot would be the prime example.

Note that when I wrote "field", I meant "wheat", not "air". :)

> > But overall your point is correct; weather is highly variable, and if
> > you don't check it beforehand, your flight will probably not be very fun
> > or very long.
>
> I think this would be consistent no matter what you fly whether it be
> glider or power flight.
>
> I really think the luck factor is very minimal in a properly prepared
> flight myself. Maybe bad luck, but day like today in MS and temps in
> the 90's, severe clear, can't imagine no lift conditions.

I think that with gliders, it can be reduced, but is still fairly large,
and much larger than with powered flight. The reason is simply that very
small changes in conditions can result in very large changes in soaring
quality, whereas powered aircraft don't care quite so much. For example,
high cirrus moves in and cuts off 80% of your heating, killing all
thermals in the area. Power pilots don't care (probably welcome the
reduced turbulence!) but glider pilots are sad. Cirrus is, from what
I've seen, very difficult to forecast in advance. Another example: winds
are forecast at 15kts perpendicular to the local ridge. Launch, get
there, and discover that local rotor effects are completely suppressing
the wind at ridgetop level. Short flight. That one put me into a plowed
dirt field once.

I'm *usually* not surprised by the weather, but it happens....

> Little update on my gliding arena.
>
> Club is flying today and I am hoping to get a lesson in. Downside to
> student status is you need two two pilots on hand so I emailed my
> instructor to see if it's a good day for lessons.

Why do you need two tow pilots on hand as a student?

> Haven't heard from him yet. Club is breaking off from Pisgah and
> moving to Woodbridge. Talk about convenient as it's only 4 miles from
> my house. You can bet once I go solo, they will see me every Friday
> they fly. (my self appointed flying day).

I'm jealous. My gliderport is about 75 miles away....

On the subject of gliders and cross-country flying, I participated in a
fly-in today! A novel experience for engineless flight. A local resort
with a private airport held an Independence Day festival which included
a fly-in, so I decided to participate. Beautiful but tricky little
airport nestled in the mountains. Only about 30 miles from the
gliderport so a piece of cake to get over there. Trailered back out in
the evening, lots of interest from people on the ground. Always good to
try something new.

Flight trace here:

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=-16
94194266

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Dave Doe]

In article >, says...
>
> "Mxsmanic" > wrote
>
> > I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
> > hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some
> > way to
> > gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are these
> > pilots just lucky as well?
>
> It depends...
>
> If you sink out while the others stay up it is luck. If you stay up while
> the others sink out it is skill.

Good luck - I don't think MX does, or even understands, humour.

--
Duncan.

[BDS]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote

> I ask because I read stories about gliders going on and on for hours and
> hundreds of miles or more, which implies that there must always be some
> way to
> gain altitude, provided that a pilot is sufficiently skilled. Or are these
> pilots just lucky as well?

It depends...

If you sink out while the others stay up it is luck. If you stay up while
the others sink out it is skill.