Wiring

[John[_27_]]

I'm considering installing a climb/cruise switch, gear warning, and
spoiler warning sensors (all driven by a C302). I've not done any
wiring on gliders before - is there a specific grade of wire that
should be used? And what gauge is typically used for this sort of
thing?

Thanks,
John

[Grider Pirate]

On Jul 3, 6:37*am, John > wrote:
> I'm considering installing a climb/cruise switch, gear warning, and
> spoiler warning sensors (all driven by a C302). *I've not done any
> wiring on gliders before - is there a specific grade of wire that
> should be used? *And what gauge is typically used for this sort of
> thing?
>
> Thanks,
> John

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/wire.html
22 ga. seems most common for signals, 18 ga. or larger for power
distribution.

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jul 3, 7:37*am, John > wrote:
> I'm considering installing a climb/cruise switch, gear warning, and
> spoiler warning sensors (all driven by a C302). *I've not done any
> wiring on gliders before - is there a specific grade of wire that
> should be used? *And what gauge is typically used for this sort of
> thing?
>
> Thanks,
> John

John,

http://www.craggyaero.com/electrical.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[ContestID67[_2_]]

Without a doubt you need to use Mil-Spec Tefzel wiring in all
aircraft. It isn't all the expensive and required as far as I
know.
The jacket is tough so that is isn't easily abraded causing
sparks
and fire. If there is a fire the jacket resists burning and
doesn't
emit toxic fumes.

For all of these low current applications that you mention,
anything
from 22-26 and smaller gauge will work - the smaller the better to
a
point). Look for multiconductor to save yourself some additional
wiring. Below are some sources. You don't need shielded in a
non-
motorized glider IMHO. No ignition system!

http://wingsandwheels.com/page5.htm < smallest is 22gauge
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/wc2wire.php < 5
conductor 26 gauge
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/wire.html < smallest 24
gauge
(I don't think that http://cumulus-soaring.com carries Tefzel wire
as
yet)

Lastly, as to gear/spoiler warning you need to make sure that you
are
not interfering with the regular operation of the glider with
switches/
wiring and need to be very careful if you are planning on drilling
any
holes. General, most gear warning systems that I see use
mechanical
micro-switches (http://cumulus-soaring.com/misc/switch-
lever-1.jpg).
These have to rub against something to be activated (where
exactly?)
which can lead to wear where you don't want it. I prefer magnetic
reed switches (http://cumulus-soaring.com/hamlin.htm) which don't
have
any wear points as they don't rub against anything. When a magnet
gets next to the reed, a "switch" is closed or opened (depending
on
how you have it wired). You tape or glue (I prefer non-permanent
solutions) the magnet to the airbrake and gear mechanism somewhere
(trial and error part) and glue the "switch" to an adjacent
surface.
Easy.

Full disclosure: For standard airworthiness aircraft you need
someone
official to sign off on this mod. As I understand it, if you
didn't
build >50% of your experimental aircraft, I think that you also
have
to have have someone sign off. My $0.02. Stay safe.

- John DeRosa "67R"

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

For what it's worth, the accident experience in the UK suggests that
much more expensive accidents, including some injuries, have happened
as a result of gear warnings going off and causing the pilot to start
pulling levers, and losing pitch control, at low level, rather than
the relatively minor damage of landing with the undercarriage up.

Somebody else thought of, and I adopted, a much simpler and cheaper
arrangement than electric audible warning. I have a sticky label which
I put on the vario face. If it is still there when I come off tow and
start soaring, I have forgotten to raise the undercarriage. I then put
it on the air brake/spoiler lever.

If it is still on the air brake/spoiler lever when I come into land, I
have forgotten to lower the undercarriage.

So far, whenever I have remembered to use it, it has worked.

Chris N

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jul 3, 8:01*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
>Without a doubt you need to use Mil-Spec Tefzel wiring in all
> aircraft.

Why don't you take your crusade to the manufacturers themselves. As
long as they build an certify gliders with PVC insulated wiring you
will have a hard time convincing end users that tefzel is required
*without a doubt*.

Andy

[Warren]

You don't need to use mil-spec wire. More importantly, you do need
good soldering skills.. Most people who think they can solder really
don't know how. Get some help if you have never worked with small
guage wire.

[bildan]

On Jul 4, 2:59*am, Chris Nicholas > wrote:
> For what it's worth, the accident experience in the UK suggests that
> much more expensive accidents, including some injuries, have happened
> as a result of gear warnings going off and causing the pilot to start
> pulling levers, and losing pitch control, at low level, rather than
> the relatively minor damage of landing with the undercarriage up.

Of course, this should also apply to retractable gear airplanes which
all have electronic gear warning systems. I think there is no such
accident record there.

If a pilot becomes so distracted by a gear warning system he crashes,
any other distraction would do the same. Clearly, the problem isn't
the gear warning, it's the pilot's reaction to it which suggests
extremely poor training.

[[email protected]]

You don't need "good soldering skills", if you use crimp on
connectors, which are preferred over solder joints.

Consider a seperate power source (9 V battery) for your gear warning.

More on wiring here:

http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Downloads.html

[Guy Byars[_2_]]

> Of course, this should also apply to retractable gear airplanes which
> all have electronic gear warning systems.


Gear warnings are not always 100% effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K4QHpVXtxI

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/3/2010 6:37 AM, John wrote:
> I'm considering installing a climb/cruise switch, gear warning, and
> spoiler warning sensors (all driven by a C302). I've not done any
> wiring on gliders before - is there a specific grade of wire that
> should be used? And what gauge is typically used for this sort of
> thing?
>

By "spoiler warning", do you mean a warning that your spoilers are
unlocked after you've accelerated to 20 knots or so at the start of the
tow? The 302 can be set to do that, which I've done on my glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jul 4, 10:13*am, wrote:
> You don't need "good soldering skills", if you use crimp on
> connectors, which are preferred over solder joints.
>
> Consider a seperate power source (9 V battery) for your gear warning.
>
> More on wiring here:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Downloads.html


(Aren't we supposed to wait until the season is over to start a wiring
thread?)

I agree that good crip connections (done with the correct ratcheting
crimper) are preferable to solder. But I'll disagree on the 9V battery
idea. The OP should consider using the capability of the C302 he has
in his ship, its U/C and spoiler warnings are worth using and a
separate 9V battery is just yet another thing to fail, go flat, leak
etc (I've fished out rotten old leaking 9V batteries from club ship's
vario backups etc.). If you main ships battery does not provide
reliable power that is a separate problem that should be fixed.

To the O.P. ... Regardless of what wire and terminations etc. you use
the most important stuff is just a good sense of workmanship and basic
electrical and glider practical sense, and not doing something bad
that could cause serious problems (electrical short, jammed controls,
etc.). As with many of these threads I'd hate to think of people doing
much work on their glider based on Q&A on r.a.s. It may be worth
finding somebody who, maybe another owner, or a glider A&P and have
them help with advice and maybe supervise you. And in the case of an
A&P maybe sign off your work if needed.

There are also old threads on r.a.s that address glider wiring you can
search for them.


Darryl

[ContestID67[_2_]]

> More on wiring here:
> http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Downloads.html

I had a problem using the above web address. I tried looking at the
images on the site at http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Photos_Figures.html
and got a permissions issue.

I contacted the web master and he told me to use;
http://aeroelectric.com/Photos_Figures.html

Enjoy, John DeRosa

[John[_27_]]

On Jul 5, 7:38*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> > More on wiring here:
> >http://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Downloads.html
>
> I had a problem using the above web address. *I tried looking at the
> images on the site athttp://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/Photos_Figures..html
> and got a permissions issue.
>
> I contacted the web master and he told me to use;http://aeroelectric.com/Photos_Figures.html
>
> Enjoy, John DeRosa

Thanks for the ideas - I agree on using the 302 as existing
functionality is within the product. I do have a bit of experience
but would surely have somebody authorized check over the work done.
Safety above all else, right? As for doing this in the off-season,
I've got nice long summer evenings to kill time doing something other
than sitting around - assuming summer will arrive sometime soon! Just
exploratory post to get ideas - will troll the archives for specifics
when the time comes. Thanks again for the feedback.

John