F2A-1/B-239 in Pensacola

[Old hoodoo]

After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in the
US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to its
amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
be
tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
condition.
With only a cousin, a Finnish built prototype of a B-239 copy with a
Russian engine in existance in Finland, the type is definitely in the rara
avis class.

Al Sumrall

[John A. Weeks III]

In article >, Old hoodoo
> wrote:

> After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
> BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in the
> US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
> museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to its
> amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
> still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
> current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
> markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
> gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
> carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
> be
> tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
> combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
> being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
> condition.

Putting false markings on a plane that could be clearly identified
as a combat vet would be a crime. It should remain in Finnish
markings, with either the existing paint, or new paint.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

[Allen Epps]

In article >, John A. Weeks III
> wrote:

> In article >, Old hoodoo
> > wrote:
>
> > After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
> > BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in the
> > US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
> > museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to its
> > amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
> > still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
> > current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
> > markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
> > gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
> > carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
> > be
> > tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
> > combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
> > being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
> > condition.
>
> Putting false markings on a plane that could be clearly identified
> as a combat vet would be a crime. It should remain in Finnish
> markings, with either the existing paint, or new paint.
>
> -john-

I certainly agree, and changes should only be made to preserve its
current state.
I was out at the Hazy center two weeks ago and was a bit disappointed
in the FW-190 they have. When I saw it at Garber they had a display
board in front of it showing all the camo they found as they restored
it and in display at Garber it has a small sign now but no mention of
the various paint nor it's extensive combat history from the eastern
front to homeland defense. I think the staff needs to realize that if a
tourista makes the effort to drive to Dulles area then they likely know
more than the average bear about aircraft and would like some more
details. Perhaps a small pamphlet or guide with detail would be a nice
solution.

Allen

[Mike Lechnar]

Allen,

I visited the Hazy center last month and it's obvious that it's still a
work in progress. I hope that when they get everything sorted out that
the information presented will be up to NASM's usual high standards.
With the free shuttle bus from the Mall and listing in the guide books,
it looked to me like most of the visitors were the usual tourists. Back
in the day, only the truly hardcore made the arrangements to visit the
Garber facility. I did it twice in the last 22 years. It was good to
see some of the aircraft in the Hazy center that I'd seen being restored
or just stored at Garber. Being able to poke one's head into Enola
Gay's bomb bay as it sat in pieces was pretty cool. It's a lot prettier
to look at now, but not as much fun.

Mike Lechnar

Allen Epps wrote:
>
> In article >, John A. Weeks III
> > wrote:
>
> > In article >, Old hoodoo
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
> > > BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in the
> > > US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
> > > museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to its
> > > amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
> > > still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
> > > current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
> > > markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
> > > gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
> > > carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
> > > be
> > > tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
> > > combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
> > > being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
> > > condition.
> >
> > Putting false markings on a plane that could be clearly identified
> > as a combat vet would be a crime. It should remain in Finnish
> > markings, with either the existing paint, or new paint.
> >
> > -john-
>
> I certainly agree, and changes should only be made to preserve its
> current state.
> I was out at the Hazy center two weeks ago and was a bit disappointed
> in the FW-190 they have. When I saw it at Garber they had a display
> board in front of it showing all the camo they found as they restored
> it and in display at Garber it has a small sign now but no mention of
> the various paint nor it's extensive combat history from the eastern
> front to homeland defense. I think the staff needs to realize that if a
> tourista makes the effort to drive to Dulles area then they likely know
> more than the average bear about aircraft and would like some more
> details. Perhaps a small pamphlet or guide with detail would be a nice
> solution.
>
> Allen

[Allen Epps]

In article >, Mike Lechnar
> wrote:

> Allen,
>
> I visited the Hazy center last month and it's obvious that it's still a
> work in progress. I hope that when they get everything sorted out that
> the information presented will be up to NASM's usual high standards.
> With the free shuttle bus from the Mall and listing in the guide books,
> it looked to me like most of the visitors were the usual tourists. Back
> in the day, only the truly hardcore made the arrangements to visit the
> Garber facility. I did it twice in the last 22 years. It was good to
> see some of the aircraft in the Hazy center that I'd seen being restored
> or just stored at Garber. Being able to poke one's head into Enola
> Gay's bomb bay as it sat in pieces was pretty cool. It's a lot prettier
> to look at now, but not as much fun.
>
> Mike Lechnar
>

Please don't get the idea that I think the museum is not worth a visit
it certainly is, and it is clearly a work in progress and given the
space they have maybe 30% done! I was just surprised that the display
board did not move out to Hazy with the FW-190 since it was already up
to the Smithsonians high standards and was pretty simple and
interesting addition to the airplane. It's really nice to see the A-6
is finally moved from alongside the hangar at Andrews out there but an
Intruder looks awfully lonely without some TERs and ordance so I'm sure
they'll find some.
Even with the shuttle from the mall I think it's a two day evolution
for the NASM and Hazy to be covered for a lot of people. So I'm
thinking the primary visitor may not be an airplane nut but will have a
bit more interest than the standard tourist. There's a whole lot to see
in DC just on the mall so I think it's a time commitment a lot won't
make (of course anyone reading this newsgroup will and should!)
I did the Garber facility four times over three years and was always
seeing things I'd not seen before so there's tons of neat stuff out
there.
Allen

[Mike Kanze]

Allen,

>an Intruder looks awfully lonely without some TERs

True, but TERs would "underrepresent" an aircraft that normally carried
MERs.

Agree that Garber has always been a neat, "up close and personal"
experience. Hope Hazy's opening doesn't change this.

--
Mike Kanze

"He (John Kerry) said, it is unconscionable to use the tragic memory of a
war in order to get elected, unless of course, it's the Vietnam War."

- Jay Leno


"Allen Epps" > wrote in message
et...
> In article >, Mike Lechnar
> > wrote:
>
>> Allen,
>>
>> I visited the Hazy center last month and it's obvious that it's still a
>> work in progress. I hope that when they get everything sorted out that
>> the information presented will be up to NASM's usual high standards.
>> With the free shuttle bus from the Mall and listing in the guide books,
>> it looked to me like most of the visitors were the usual tourists. Back
>> in the day, only the truly hardcore made the arrangements to visit the
>> Garber facility. I did it twice in the last 22 years. It was good to
>> see some of the aircraft in the Hazy center that I'd seen being restored
>> or just stored at Garber. Being able to poke one's head into Enola
>> Gay's bomb bay as it sat in pieces was pretty cool. It's a lot prettier
>> to look at now, but not as much fun.
>>
>> Mike Lechnar
>>
>
> Please don't get the idea that I think the museum is not worth a visit
> it certainly is, and it is clearly a work in progress and given the
> space they have maybe 30% done! I was just surprised that the display
> board did not move out to Hazy with the FW-190 since it was already up
> to the Smithsonians high standards and was pretty simple and
> interesting addition to the airplane. It's really nice to see the A-6
> is finally moved from alongside the hangar at Andrews out there but an
> Intruder looks awfully lonely without some TERs and ordance so I'm sure
> they'll find some.
> Even with the shuttle from the mall I think it's a two day evolution
> for the NASM and Hazy to be covered for a lot of people. So I'm
> thinking the primary visitor may not be an airplane nut but will have a
> bit more interest than the standard tourist. There's a whole lot to see
> in DC just on the mall so I think it's a time commitment a lot won't
> make (of course anyone reading this newsgroup will and should!)
> I did the Garber facility four times over three years and was always
> seeing things I'd not seen before so there's tons of neat stuff out
> there.
> Allen

[old hoodoo]

Test reply. Outlook never let me reply, navigator used to.

aks

Old hoodoo wrote:
> After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
> BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in the
> US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
> museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to its
> amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
> still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
> current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
> markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
> gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
> carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
> be
> tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
> combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
> being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
> condition.
> With only a cousin, a Finnish built prototype of a B-239 copy with a
> Russian engine in existance in Finland, the type is definitely in the rara
> avis class.
>
> Al Sumrall
>
>

[Jarmo Lindberg]

Obviously we here in Finland would like to see our WW2 fighter back home in
our aviation museum. But if (and when) the aircraft is to stay at Pensacola,
then it would be fair to display the aircraft in its original Finnish
markings.
The Finnish magazine Suomen Kuvalehti did an extensive story about BW-372
when the aircraft was found from Russia. I contacted the editor and asked
for permission to translate the story into english. It is posted at the
Fighter Tactics Academy web site at:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/BW-372.htm

Jarmo Lindberg
Webmaster, FTA

"Old hoodoo" > kirjoitti
...
> After much knashing of apphrehensive teeth by Brewster F2A fans,
> BW-372, a Brewster B-239 (US Navy F2A-1 equivalent) has found a home in
the
> US at the National Naval Museum in Pensacola. The only "issue" for the
> museum, which sat in a freshwater lake for over 50 years, is that due to
its
> amazingly intact condition with most of the original Finnish applied paint
> still in relatively good shape, is whether to display it as is in its
> current relic condition, fully restore it either to its original Finnish
> markings, or perhaps display it in Navy F2A-1 configuration with that
> gorgeous pre-war paint job the type carried. As the first US monoplane
> carrier fighter the temptation to restore it to F2A-1 condition has got to
> be
> tempting to the staff, although the fact that the aircraft is a true WWII
> combat veteran with the markings it had when ditched in the lake after
> being shot up weighs heavily for maintaining the aircraft in as is
> condition.
> With only a cousin, a Finnish built prototype of a B-239 copy with a
> Russian engine in existance in Finland, the type is definitely in the rara
> avis class.
>
> Al Sumrall
>
>