Why was a A-7 doing with a f-4 during a soviet escort?

[Prowlus]

I've got this book entitled "spyplane" about the various recon
aircraft used by western and eastern block countries during the cold
war and i just noticed a strange photo . in it is a ELINT an-12 cub
being flanked by a F-4 phantom from the USS saratoga . Ok the pic
looked normal at first and then i see in the left hand corner what
looks like a vought A-7 Corsair in the background as well . I can tell
its a Corsair because i can see the shape of the aircraft and the
refueling probe scab .
Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting a
soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor?

[John R Weiss]

"Prowlus" > wrote...
> Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting a
> soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor?

The A-7 was probably a tanker.

[Pechs1]

bfoong-<< Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting a
soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor? >><BR><BR>

All aircraft on a CV can be called upon to escort a Soviet A/C. On Midway,
sometimes the alert 5 was A-7s only, with a Aim-9, as the wind was too low for
F-4s to fly.

It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it found the
CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted many Badgers, Bears
and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and A-6s...no big deal.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Theecmo]

Don't forget we escorted them in the Prowler as well. We had a couple extra
sets of hands to take pictures. :-)

TheECMO

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> bfoong-<< Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting a
> soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor? >><BR><BR>
>
> All aircraft on a CV can be called upon to escort a Soviet A/C. On Midway,
> sometimes the alert 5 was A-7s only, with a Aim-9, as the wind was too low
for
> F-4s to fly.
>
> It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it found
the
> CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted many Badgers,
Bears
> and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and A-6s...no big deal.
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer




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[Mike P.]

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> bfoong-<< Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting a
> soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor? >><BR><BR>
>
> All aircraft on a CV can be called upon to escort a Soviet A/C. On Midway,
> sometimes the alert 5 was A-7s only, with a Aim-9, as the wind was too low
for
> F-4s to fly.
>
> It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it found
the
> CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted many Badgers,
Bears
> and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and A-6s...no big deal.

I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you saying the
escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
aircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it away
from any ships? If so, why?

Mike

[Elmshoot]

>I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you saying
>theescort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to
>theaircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it
>awayfrom any ships? If so, why?Mike


Mike,
During peace time in international waters you can fly were ever you want. It
wasn't unusual to have them in the Case one marshal stack or down in the
landing pattern. During the Iranina crisis the Mays (IL-38) would do flight
deck level passes close to port trying to see in the hangar bay. We had the
rescue (CH-53) helos on board below decks.
I have a picture taken on Christmas day 88 flying escort on a bear in my trusty
KA-6d. I was suprised how fast he was at altitude.

Sparky

[Theecmo]

Mike,

The idea of an escort is to keep the "bad guy" in your sights so that if
things go horribly wrong you are able to take him down right away. There is
supposed to be a no-fly bubble around all ships at sea (I forget how big,
but something like 1,000 feet sticks in my memory). Theoretically you are
not to fly within that bubble, but then again, in peacetime, the only way to
enforce that is to send off a stinging note to the offenders ambassador.


"Mike P." > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Pechs1" > wrote in message
> ...
> > bfoong-<< Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing escorting
a
> > soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor? >><BR><BR>
> >
> > All aircraft on a CV can be called upon to escort a Soviet A/C. On
Midway,
> > sometimes the alert 5 was A-7s only, with a Aim-9, as the wind was too
low
> for
> > F-4s to fly.
> >
> > It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it found
> the
> > CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted many Badgers,
> Bears
> > and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and A-6s...no big deal.
>
> I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you saying
the
> escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
> aircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it away
> from any ships? If so, why?
>
> Mike
>
>




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[Ogden Johnson III]

"Mike P." > wrote:

>>It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it found the
>>CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted many Badgers, Bears
>> and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and A-6s...no big deal.

>I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you saying the
>escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
>aircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it away
>from any ships? If so, why?

Take it in two steps, Mike.

>but are you saying the escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
>aircraft carrier so it could take pictures

Take the "(or escort)" close to the aircraft carrier implication
first.. No. Our aircraft merely stay close to the other
country's while the other country's aircraft
was doing whatever it was doing.
[i]
>rather than escorting it away from any ships?

Our aircraft have no legal right to deny the Soviet, or any other
country's aircraft from flying anywhere it desires to over the
ocean, except for such internationally negotiated "safe distance"
requirements vis-a-vis the aircraft flying close to the
ship/carrier involved.

Just out of curiosity Mike. How would *you* go about "escorting
it away from any ships", if a Soviet aircraft persisted in not
allowing you to escort it away from any ships. Would you use a
missile on it, or go the macho route and shoot it down with your
guns? Or would you flirt with a Fox 4 by playing Turkey with the
Bear chicken trying to "muscle" it away from the carrier?

Note that we benefited from this "free access for overflights",
too. One personably memorable case was that of VMA-231, a
squadron I joined just after its "test cruise" on the FDR to
determine if Harriers [AV-8As in this case] could fit into
big-deck carrier operations. A med cruise, the timing was right
for the FDR, including our Harriers, to observe the Kiev and its
Forgers upon its first venture into the Mediterranean. We [both
the FDRs Navy aircraft and VMA-231 itself] took a *lot* of
pictures of the Kiev and its operations.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Andrew C. Toppan]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:05:08 +1000, "Mike P." >
wrote:

>I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you saying the
>escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
>aircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it away
>from any ships? If so, why?

How could they possibly prevent this? It's international waters in
peacetime. The Soviet aircraft has just as much right to be there as
the carrier does.

The only way to positively stop an aircraft from going somewhere is to
shoot it down, which is generally a Bad Idea in peacetime.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

[Dave in San diego]

(Pechs1) wrote in
:

> bfoong-<< Does anyone know what and why a Corsair may be doing
> escorting a soviet recon plane alongside a more dedicated interceptor?
> >><BR><BR>
>
> All aircraft on a CV can be called upon to escort a Soviet A/C. On
> Midway, sometimes the alert 5 was A-7s only, with a Aim-9, as the wind
> was too low for F-4s to fly.
>
> It was all about finding the Soviet A/C and providing escort as it
> found the CV. Taking pictures, that sort of thing. I have escorted
> many Badgers, Bears and Mays and have often been joined by A-7s and
> A-6s...no big deal. P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
> Phlyer

Hey, Pechs and ECMO, remember NorPac '82, the "deceptive transit", and
the surprise we gave the Russians who were paying more attention to the
Big E? I have pix of the Russian flying around us after that when they
followed the A-6's back to the boat.

Dave in San Diego

[Larry]

"Theecmo" > wrote in message
...
> Don't forget we escorted them in the Prowler as well. We had a couple
extra
> sets of hands to take pictures. :-)

"Wake UP back there (yelling over the ICS) and grab that camera" the Pilot
screamed so loud the ECMO awoke with a start.

Larry

[Pechs1]

No spam-<< I may have misunderstood - correct me if I'm wrong - but are you
saying the
escort aircraft would allow (or escort) the Soviet aircraft close to the
aircraft carrier so it could take pictures rather than escorting it away
from any ships? If so, why? >><BR><BR>

You weren't going to 'force' these A/C to do something they didn't want to do.
They routinely flew through the case 1 pattern, really gooning things up. This
was 'peace time', no shots across the bow or anything like that. They took pix
of us, we of them, really quite a game.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

drag-nd<< Hey, Pechs and ECMO, remember NorPac '82, the "deceptive transit",
and
the surprise we gave the Russians who were paying more attention to the
Big E? I have pix of the Russian flying around us after that when they
followed the A-6's back to the boat. >><BR><BR>

You bet. I was airborne and intercepted a Badger and was told later that comms
from it was 'where did the F-4 come from, Enterprise has F-14s only", type
thing. We and Coral-maru did surprise them.

two old boats that made 'E' look silly.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer