JAG and Petty Officers

[Jack & Bev Biagini]

In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address Petty
Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear anyone
else called a Petty Officer.
Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were "Waves".
Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the blackshoes?

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 10/16/04 7:27 PM, in article , "Jack &
Bev Biagini" > wrote:

> In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address Petty
> Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
> years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear anyone
> else called a Petty Officer.
> Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were "Waves".
> Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the blackshoes?
>
>

I try to use "Petty Officer Smith" or on rare occasions (even though I feel
lazy when I say it) I'll address by rate--e.g. "Good morning AD1." I never
have used (and except for boot camp don't hear the enlisted folks say "Yes,
Petty Officer" or "No, Petty Officer." i.e. Without the last name.

--Woody

[Larry]

"Jack & Bev Biagini" > wrote in message
...
> In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address Petty
> Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
> years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear anyone
> else called a Petty Officer.
> Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were "Waves".
> Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the blackshoes?

They incorrectly address folks as "Petty Officer". The correct way to
address folks is "Petty Officer Jones", "Chief Nelson", Commander Rab", etc.
Junior Enlisted deserve to be addressed correctly too!


Larry
Senior Chief
USN Retired

[Yofuri]

I don't recall any published instructions or edicts, but I recall it
becoming the accepted form in the Navy between 1970 and 1975. Before, E-6
and below were addressed by last name, CPO's as Chief, Senior Chief or
Master Chief, and officers up to LCDR were Mister.

The fastest way for a sailor to ruin his day was to address a Marine, Army
or Air Force officer as "Mister", though.

Rick

"Jack & Bev Biagini" > wrote in message
...
> In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address Petty
> Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
> years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear anyone
> else called a Petty Officer.
> Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were "Waves".
> Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the blackshoes?
>

[Dave in San diego]

"Yofuri" > wrote in
:

> I don't recall any published instructions or edicts, but I recall it
> becoming the accepted form in the Navy between 1970 and 1975. Before,
> E-6 and below were addressed by last name, CPO's as Chief, Senior
> Chief or Master Chief, and officers up to LCDR were Mister.
>
> The fastest way for a sailor to ruin his day was to address a Marine,
> Army or Air Force officer as "Mister", though.
>
> Rick
>
> "Jack & Bev Biagini" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address
>> Petty Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my
>> sleeve for 2 years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did
>> I ever hear anyone else called a Petty Officer.
>> Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were
>> "Waves". Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the
>> blackshoes?

By the time I retired in '89, last name only was out. Petty Officer by
itself, or Petty Officer [Schmuckatelli] were the "approved" forms of
address. The Marines at the gates at Miramar address everyone who comes
through by their rank - when I go through, it's "Good
morning/afternoon/evening Petty Officer", cuz they read it right off my
retired ID card. It was a little odd at first, but now I just say thank
you.

Dave in San Diego

[T Bird]

As a 20 Yr Navy Guy . 60 to 81 . Being addressed as Petty Officer is
nothing new. But the term may have increased more during and certainly
after the Zumwalt era .

[vincent p. norris]

>The fastest way for a sailor to ruin his day was to address a Marine, Army
>or Air Force officer as "Mister", though.

When I was in the marines, late 40s to mid-50s, lieutenants were
commonly addressed as "Mister." But only with the surname added,
never just plain "Mister."

IIRC, Midshipmen and perhaps Navcads in flight training were sometimes
addressed as "Mister" without a surname added.

However, it would have been a mistake to address a marine captain or
major as "Mister," even though the naval equivalents, lieutenant and
lieutenant commander, are (or were) Misters.

It was also a custom, at that time, to address officers in the third
person. The first time an enlisted man said to me, "Would the
lieutenant like a cup of coffee?" it took me a few seconds to realize
he meant ME!

vince norris

[Yofuri]

Now that brings back fond memories!

I got into the third-person habit while an E5, and the only Navy assistant
to a Marine Captain O-in-C. When I went back to squid duty, Navy officers
looked at me like I had two heads when I did it.

I also kept a "high and tight" haircut until the fabled J. R. (Jumping Jim)
Foster chewed me out for looking like a Prussian or something. Since I had
a sincere desire to make PO1 at the time, I humored him and let it grow out.
It worked.

A later foulup (as a W1), was addressing a message to a Commander who was
O-in-C of a beachdet. That's when I learned the difference between SNA and
SENAV.

Rick

'57-'85, E1 to O4

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >The fastest way for a sailor to ruin his day was to address a Marine,
> >Army
>>or Air Force officer as "Mister", though.
>
> When I was in the marines, late 40s to mid-50s, lieutenants were
> commonly addressed as "Mister." But only with the surname added,
> never just plain "Mister."
>
> IIRC, Midshipmen and perhaps Navcads in flight training were sometimes
> addressed as "Mister" without a surname added.
>
> However, it would have been a mistake to address a marine captain or
> major as "Mister," even though the naval equivalents, lieutenant and
> lieutenant commander, are (or were) Misters.
>
> It was also a custom, at that time, to address officers in the third
> person. The first time an enlisted man said to me, "Would the
> lieutenant like a cup of coffee?" it took me a few seconds to realize
> he meant ME!
>
> vince norris

[Mike Kanze]

I don't recall seeing what Rick saw during the 1970 - 1975 period, but that
may not mean much.

In the places I was stationed, anyone below Chief was addressed simply by
their last name. Chiefs were always "Chief." "Mister" as a form of address
for Navy officers below O-5 was used increasingly infrequently, although it
was ALWAYS used for Midshipmen and officer candidates. The trend toward
addressing a superior by his / her role was becoming more pronounced ("Hey,
OPS!"). The Skipper and XO were always AT LEAST that, if not "Sir" /
"Ma'am."

One thing to remember: Donald P. Bellisario, JAG's producer, is a former
Marine. I've often suspected that much of the titular formality one
observes on JAG (and which I rarely observed during my active duty time)
comes from Bellisario's experiences in the USMC of the 1950s. Again, just
my suspicion.

--
Mike Kanze

"Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography."

- Paul Rodriguez


"Yofuri" > wrote in message
...
>I don't recall any published instructions or edicts, but I recall it
>becoming the accepted form in the Navy between 1970 and 1975. Before, E-6
>and below were addressed by last name, CPO's as Chief, Senior Chief or
>Master Chief, and officers up to LCDR were Mister.
>
> The fastest way for a sailor to ruin his day was to address a Marine, Army
> or Air Force officer as "Mister", though.
>
> Rick
>
> "Jack & Bev Biagini" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address Petty
>> Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
>> years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear
>> anyone else called a Petty Officer.
>> Of course this was back in the late 50's when female sailors were
>> "Waves".
>> Is this the new and improved Navy or is it just the blackshoes?
>>
>
>

[Pechs1]

Jack-<< In watching JAG over the last few years, these lawyer types address
Petty
Officers as Petty Officer "So and So". I had a "Crow" on my sleeve for 2
years and was never addressed as Petty Officer, nor did I ever hear anyone
else called a Petty Officer. >><BR><BR>

Yep, it was 'Petty Officer Smith', not Smith...the new PC Navy. I neevr thought
I was being sligjhted when somebody called me "Mister' instead of 'Lieutenant'
or 'LIeutenant Commander'..

When I was in my first squadron(VF-33-1975), troops(E-1 thru 6) went by their
last name...not so in my last squadron(VF-126 1990-2).
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Jim McCartan]

When I was in, '68-72, being called Petty Officer along your last name
was the same as your parents calling you by your whole name. It
usually ment that you had to stand tall before the man. If someone
used petty officer before my name I knew that I was in trouble or
going to be in trouble.

Normally - all below chief - were addressed by their last name or
nickname - depending on the circumstances.

[Michael C Nantkes]

Addressing someone by rank and last name is proper etiquette. For E-3 and
below it is okay to just call them by their last name.

"Jim McCartan" > wrote in message
om...
> When I was in, '68-72, being called Petty Officer along your last name
> was the same as your parents calling you by your whole name. It
> usually ment that you had to stand tall before the man. If someone
> used petty officer before my name I knew that I was in trouble or
> going to be in trouble.
>
> Normally - all below chief - were addressed by their last name or
> nickname - depending on the circumstances.

[Jim Carriere]

I think, no, I am certain that this varies between communities and
even individual commands. Squadrons next door to each other can have
different nuances, never mind on coasts thousands of miles aways.

What is appropriate or inappropriate in one place may be verbose,
rude, too formal, not formal enough in another. A lot of things are
always a little different at sea too.

Nicknames or use of first names between Officer and Enlisted is
normally inappropriate, but I've met people who also thought that was
OK in certain circumstances.

Just some general thoughts to put it in perspective.

[J. McEachen]

And we are leaving out Warrant Officers in this discussion. In 2/61 I
reported aboard VAH-5 in Forrestal early in a Med cruise. My 'jg stripes
were tarnished, but the ship was full (6,000 men in those days) so I was
assigned a room with a W-4 in warrant country. I was not only just an
O-2 but an airdale NAO(B) with an orange flight suit. I don't remember
my roommate's name, or that he even spoke to me. I don't even know what
I would have addressed him with. Within a few weeks I was moved to the
03 level, under the forward port cat where the port passageway
dog-legged, with the xo of the marine detachment, a West Point grad.
Everything was fine until he put up a recruiting poster of a Marine in
dress blues with the words, "The Marine Corps Builds Men!" on my closet
door which was visible all the way down that port passageway when our
door was open.
I took Miss February 1961 to our photo intel lab and our first class I
forget the air intel rate McKelvey carefully trimmed her and mounted her
on white oak tag and in the same shades of red and blue he wrote, "The
Navy Makes Women!" I taped it side by side with the Marine poster. My
2/LT didn't talk to me for two weeks. When sailors or Marines came to
the room for counselling or whatever, he would take the posters down so
they wouldn't get the wrong idea about us. I don't think I addressed him
as LT or Mister, just Ted.
I do have a slide of the two posters, I've sent it to nephews in NROTC.
I see Forrestal parked alongside Saratoga in Newport when I visit my
oldest daughter's Army family there. I would give anything to go aboard
with a flashlight, I think I could still find my way around.
Joel McEachen VAH-5
--------------------------------------------
Mike Kanze wrote:
> I don't recall seeing what Rick saw during the 1970 - 1975 period, but that
> may not mean much.
>
> In the places I was stationed, anyone below Chief was addressed simply by
> their last name. Chiefs were always "Chief." "Mister" as a form of address
> for Navy officers below O-5 was used increasingly infrequently, although it
> was ALWAYS used for Midshipmen and officer candidates. The trend toward
> addressing a superior by his / her role was becoming more pronounced ("Hey,
> OPS!"). The Skipper and XO were always AT LEAST that, if not "Sir" /
> "Ma'am."
>
> One thing to remember: Donald P. Bellisario, JAG's producer, is a former
> Marine. I've often suspected that much of the titular formality one
> observes on JAG (and which I rarely observed during my active duty time)
> comes from Bellisario's experiences in the USMC of the 1950s. Again, just
> my suspicion.
>