F-14 Tomcat story.

[JDupre5762]

I was told a story once by someone who worked at Grumman concerning the F-14.
It seems that one day a crew took up an F-14 and shortly after take off found
that the pitch controls (elevons?) were stuck causing the aircraft to pitch up
uncontrollably. By increasing power the crew was able to keep the aircraft in
a series of loops. After several loops they used rudder to bring the aircraft
horizontal changing the loops into a series of tight turns. In the meantime
they were radioing Grumman for advice and were told to eject. Instead the
pilot determined that by ruddering back into a loop and using throttle he could
land at the bottom of the loop. This was successful and later manufacturing
tools were found jamming the affected control.

Is this true?

John Dupre'

[JD]

Something like that happened to Yeager (I think) flying the F-86 (I think)
out of Downy Field (I think) enroute to Edwards AFB (I think) in the early
'50s. Someone here will know the story... I think. I don't think you
could do that in an F-14 though.

JD

[John Carrier]

Sounds a bit far-fetched. While it's theoretically possible, getting the
aircraft to the precise position (altitude, alignment, airspeed) to allow
the second half of the loop to work to allow (what would have to be) a
perfect touchdown is beyond belief.

R / John

"JDupre5762" > wrote in message
...
>I was told a story once by someone who worked at Grumman concerning the
>F-14.
> It seems that one day a crew took up an F-14 and shortly after take off
> found
> that the pitch controls (elevons?) were stuck causing the aircraft to
> pitch up
> uncontrollably. By increasing power the crew was able to keep the
> aircraft in
> a series of loops. After several loops they used rudder to bring the
> aircraft
> horizontal changing the loops into a series of tight turns. In the
> meantime
> they were radioing Grumman for advice and were told to eject. Instead the
> pilot determined that by ruddering back into a loop and using throttle he
> could
> land at the bottom of the loop. This was successful and later
> manufacturing
> tools were found jamming the affected control.
>
> Is this true?
>
> John Dupre'

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

Ever hear the naval term, "sea story"?

WDA

end

"JDupre5762" > wrote in message
...
>I was told a story once by someone who worked at Grumman concerning the
>F-14.
> It seems that one day a crew took up an F-14 and shortly after take off
> found
> that the pitch controls (elevons?) were stuck causing the aircraft to
> pitch up
> uncontrollably. By increasing power the crew was able to keep the
> aircraft in
> a series of loops. After several loops they used rudder to bring the
> aircraft
> horizontal changing the loops into a series of tight turns. In the
> meantime
> they were radioing Grumman for advice and were told to eject. Instead the
> pilot determined that by ruddering back into a loop and using throttle he
> could
> land at the bottom of the loop. This was successful and later
> manufacturing
> tools were found jamming the affected control.
>
> Is this true?
>
> John Dupre'

[Jim]

JDupre5762 wrote:
> I was told a story once by someone who worked at Grumman concerning the F-14.
> It seems that one day a crew took up an F-14 and shortly after take off found
> that the pitch controls (elevons?) were stuck causing the aircraft to pitch up
> uncontrollably. By increasing power the crew was able to keep the aircraft in
> a series of loops. After several loops they used rudder to bring the aircraft
> horizontal changing the loops into a series of tight turns. In the meantime
> they were radioing Grumman for advice and were told to eject. Instead the
> pilot determined that by ruddering back into a loop and using throttle he could
> land at the bottom of the loop. This was successful and later manufacturing
> tools were found jamming the affected control.
>
> Is this true?
>
> John Dupre'

Responding as a controller and not a pilot it MAY have happened. But my
guess he might have been merely trying to get back to the field where
crash equipment was standing by. Actually landing would only have been
shear luck.

[Greasy Rider]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:14 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> proclaimed:
>Ever hear the naval term, "sea story"?

Do you know the difference between a fairy tale and a sea story?

A fairy tale begins with "Once upon a time...."

A sea story begins with "This is no **** .......".

[rottenberg]

"JD" > wrote in message news:<8lqmd.104450$R05.74500@attbi_s53>...
> Something like that happened to Yeager (I think) flying the F-86 (I think)
> out of Downy Field (I think) enroute to Edwards AFB (I think) in the early
> '50s. Someone here will know the story... I think. I don't think you
> could do that in an F-14 though.
>
> JD

An incident is described in Yeager's book in which I think his
ailerons were locked, and it happened while he was inverted on a
low-level pass of a friend's cabin. Being Yeager, he used quick
thinking to deduce and correct the problem, unlocking the controls.
After a safe landing, the plane was taken apart and both it and other
planes that had been lost without explanation were tracked to the same
factory. There was some critical part - a linkage or something of
that sort - that had been intalled the wrong way by a single factory
worker who had been working so long that when he saw something in the
plans that didn't gibe with his experience, he ignored. Nobody was
telling him how to put planes together. Yeager notes that nobody told
him how many men he killed.

[John Carrier]

"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:14 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > proclaimed:
>>Ever hear the naval term, "sea story"?
>
> Do you know the difference between a fairy tale and a sea story?
>
> A fairy tale begins with "Once upon a time...."
>
> A sea story begins with "This is no **** .......".

Or, "There I was ..."

R / john

[Leanne]

"> Or, "There I was ..."

R / john, was that with or without a parachute?

Leanne

[John Carrier]

Aileron loss is not as challenging as pitch control loss. You can roll most
airplanes with rudder to some degree, and with swept wing jets at high alpha
that is the only way it should be done.

The F-4 stabs would go full leading edge down with a dual PC failure,
causing an uncontrollable pitch up. BUT, with judicious use of rudder, you
could barrel roll the aircraft. Duke Cunningham did several such rolls to
get his damaged aircraft feet wet on 10 May, 1972. Full stab deflection in
most

I experienced a limited control jam in the F-14 in which I had insufficient
pitch authority to hold the nose up for level flight. We started a gradual
descent back to the beach (approx 100 miles) and the brief was we would roll
inverted to push the nose into a climb, get a little altitude, roll upright
to continue the descent, and so-on until we reached a reasonable ejection
point. Luck being a better asset than skill, the controls freed up after
about 50 miles and we very cautiously brought the jet back for a straight in
approach and landing.

R / John

"rottenberg" > wrote in message
om...
> "JD" > wrote in message
> news:<8lqmd.104450$R05.74500@attbi_s53>...
>> Something like that happened to Yeager (I think) flying the F-86 (I
>> think)
>> out of Downy Field (I think) enroute to Edwards AFB (I think) in the
>> early
>> '50s. Someone here will know the story... I think. I don't think
>> you
>> could do that in an F-14 though.
>>
>> JD
>
> An incident is described in Yeager's book in which I think his
> ailerons were locked, and it happened while he was inverted on a
> low-level pass of a friend's cabin. Being Yeager, he used quick
> thinking to deduce and correct the problem, unlocking the controls.
> After a safe landing, the plane was taken apart and both it and other
> planes that had been lost without explanation were tracked to the same
> factory. There was some critical part - a linkage or something of
> that sort - that had been intalled the wrong way by a single factory
> worker who had been working so long that when he saw something in the
> plans that didn't gibe with his experience, he ignored. Nobody was
> telling him how to put planes together. Yeager notes that nobody told
> him how many men he killed.

[John Carrier]

"Leanne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "> Or, "There I was ..."
>
> R / john, was that with or without a parachute?

My landings equaled my take offs in over 4800 hours.

R / John

[Greasy Rider]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:04 -0600, "John Carrier" >
proclaimed:

>I experienced a limited control jam in the F-14 .....


(snipped)


John,
by any chance do you know Scott Provow of VF-41?

[rottenberg]

Greasy Rider > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:31:14 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > proclaimed:
> >Ever hear the naval term, "sea story"?
>
> Do you know the difference between a fairy tale and a sea story?
>
> A fairy tale begins with "Once upon a time...."
>
> A sea story begins with "This is no **** .......".

Years later, settled into their post-service lives, the story has a
new beginning: "It was a dark and stormy flight...."

[Leanne]

> My landings equaled my take offs in over 4800 hours.
>
> R / John

Being an avionics weenie, I only came aboard by helo for special assignments
and then off to home. I had always wanted to experience a cat shot, but not
the arrested landing.

Leanne

[John Carrier]

"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:04 -0600, "John Carrier" >
> proclaimed:
>
>>I experienced a limited control jam in the F-14 .....
>
>
> (snipped)
>
>
> John,
> by any chance do you know Scott Provow of VF-41?

Nope. Sorry,

John

[Jake Donovan]

Scott was in the Black Aces in 1979 - 81

His wife is flying 747's aout of LAX and Scott is flying MD11's out of ATL

They have a house in Georgia and I think a place in Florida.

Jake


"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 18:47:04 -0600, "John Carrier" >
> proclaimed:
>
>>I experienced a limited control jam in the F-14 .....
>
>
> (snipped)
>
>
> John,
> by any chance do you know Scott Provow of VF-41?

[Greasy Rider]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:25:05 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
> proclaimed:
>Scott was in the Black Aces in 1979 - 81
>
>His wife is flying 747's aout of LAX and Scott is flying MD11's out of ATL
>
>They have a house in Georgia and I think a place in Florida.

Yeah, Scott is a friend of mine. I was at the Change of Command
ceremonies when Hank Lehman turned it over. Lehman gave me a Libyan
Shoot Down patch.

[[email protected]]

HELLO sir i need to info about f-14 3 seater
can u help me??

[Jeb Hoge]

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. It's a Photoshop
concoction...there never really was a 3-seat Tomcat.

[Tex Houston]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> HELLO sir i need to info about f-14 3 seater
> can u help me??
>

Adobe Photoshop.

Tex

[Pechs1]

<< Yeah. I know what you're talking about. It's a Photoshop
concoction...there never really was a 3-seat Tomcat. >><BR><BR>

Another guy to borrow money from!!
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Gord Beaman]

(Pechs1) wrote:

><< Yeah. I know what you're talking about. It's a Photoshop
>concoction...there never really was a 3-seat Tomcat. >><BR><BR>
>
>Another guy to borrow money from!!

Or sell a bridge (with THREE supports) to.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)