question RE F-18

[JD]

The new F-18 two seater (is it 'E' or 'F'??) was the topic of conversation
last evening and we got to wondering if the backseater was a Naval Aviator
or a Naval Aviation Officer. The backseater of the old F4 didn't have
controls. I don't think the F-14 did either. What about the new F-18 two
seater?

Thanks
JD

[Jake Donovan]

The "F" is a two seater occupied by a NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICER who is now called
a WSO. Weapons Systoms Operator. There is no flight controls in the back
of the F model.

Jake

"JD" > wrote in message
news:e9tpd.85459$V41.76908@attbi_s52...
> The new F-18 two seater (is it 'E' or 'F'??) was the topic of conversation
> last evening and we got to wondering if the backseater was a Naval Aviator
> or a Naval Aviation Officer. The backseater of the old F4 didn't have
> controls. I don't think the F-14 did either. What about the new F-18
> two seater?
>
> Thanks
> JD
>

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 11/25/04 4:38 PM, in article e9tpd.85459$V41.76908@attbi_s52, "JD"
> wrote:

> The new F-18 two seater (is it 'E' or 'F'??) was the topic of conversation
> last evening and we got to wondering if the backseater was a Naval Aviator
> or a Naval Aviation Officer. The backseater of the old F4 didn't have
> controls. I don't think the F-14 did either. What about the new F-18 two
> seater?
>
> Thanks
> JD
>
>

JD,

The F/A-18E is the single-seater. The F/A-18F is the two-seater. The F
comes in two versions: The F/A-18F(S) has a stick in the back. The
missionized jet is the F/A-18F(T) and has side-stick controllers in the tub.
The rear crew seat is occupied by an Naval Flight Officer (NFO) who fills
the Weapons Systems Officer (WSO) role.

By the way, F/A-18F(S) and F/A-18F(T) are not official designations AFAIK.
I think they're RAG-isms that VFA-122 uses to ensure that the properly
configured jet gets into the correct event.

--Woody

[Mike Kanze]

Pechs,

> I say-Holy crap, GIBs flying the jet...BUT when on exchange with the USAF,
> in
> the F-4D, some WSOs I flew with were damn good.
>
> Is there a USN reg yet about when the WSO can fly? No WSO flying below
> 10,000
> ft AGL for the USAF when I was there.

Probably no surprise to you or most others in this NG that squadrons with
dual-place control aircraft have had any number of odd ducks actually flying
the bird - and sometimes even at critical moments like take-offs and
landings.

During my SERGRAD tour at VT-7 (I was a "combat Buckeye B/N" and the only
NFO aboard at NAS Meridian at the time) I enjoyed a number of hours in this
fashion, including some in the then-being-phased-out T-2A. The "A" was a
very good intro to marginal turbojet engine performance, the single, mighty
J-34 being locally rated at 3400 EMF (Equivalent Mousefart).

VT-7's Flight Surgeon at the time, Del Hahn, also received quality stick
time. The fact that "Doc" Hahn was also an active CFII certainly added to
folks' willingness to flip the "I GOT IT/YOU GOT IT" switch in his
direction.

--
Mike Kanze

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance."

- Anonymous


"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Doug-<< The F
> comes in two versions: The F/A-18F(S) has a stick in the back. The
> missionized jet is the F/A-18F(T) and has side-stick controllers in the
> tub.
> The rear crew seat is occupied by an Naval Flight Officer (NFO) who fills
> the Weapons Systems Officer (WSO) >><BR><BR>
>
> I say-Holy crap, GIBs flying the jet...BUT when on exchange with the USAF,
> in
> the F-4D, some WSOs I flew with were damn good.
>
> Is there a USN reg yet about when the WSO can fly? No WSO flying below
> 10,000
> ft AGL for the USAF when I was there.
>
> What happens if they start to grab things around the bopat when they are
> scared?? Can the pilot uncouple these??
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
> Phlyer

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 11/26/04 9:53 AM, in article
, "Pechs1" >
wrote:

> Doug-<< The F
> comes in two versions: The F/A-18F(S) has a stick in the back. The
> missionized jet is the F/A-18F(T) and has side-stick controllers in the tub.
> The rear crew seat is occupied by an Naval Flight Officer (NFO) who fills
> the Weapons Systems Officer (WSO) >><BR><BR>
>
> I say-Holy crap, GIBs flying the jet...BUT when on exchange with the USAF, in
> the F-4D, some WSOs I flew with were damn good.
>
> Is there a USN reg yet about when the WSO can fly? No WSO flying below 10,000
> ft AGL for the USAF when I was there.
>
> What happens if they start to grab things around the bopat when they are
> scared?? Can the pilot uncouple these??
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Whoa, pardner! I didn't mean to start a rogue thread.

The (S) version with the stick is a "trainer" just like the D model is
now--i.e. they're flown with FRS students in the front, IP's in the trunk.
With the (T) version (side stick mission controllers), they put IP's in the
front and student WSO's in the back. The fleet squadron's don¹t have 'em.
The only squadron that has the (S) version now is VFA-122 (FRS).

Fleet F squadrons have the (T) exclusively. Sorry if I miscommunicated less
than clearly.

--Woody

[Pechs1]

Mike writes-<< During my SERGRAD tour at VT-7 (I was a "combat Buckeye B/N"
>><BR><BR>

I say-pretty kool. We always one RIO in VF-126, Mine was Tony Hauserman. He is
now at FedEx, flyin', due to the 'co-pilot' time he logged in the TA-4.

He also owned a Beech twin something or other, actually started a teeny airline
with it, to get flight time. Went to FedEx, succesfully got hired.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[billwg]

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/26/04 9:53 AM, in article
> , "Pechs1" >
> wrote:
>
>> Doug-<< The F
>> comes in two versions: The F/A-18F(S) has a stick in the back. The
>> missionized jet is the F/A-18F(T) and has side-stick controllers in the
>> tub.
>> The rear crew seat is occupied by an Naval Flight Officer (NFO) who fills
>> the Weapons Systems Officer (WSO) >><BR><BR>
>>
>> I say-Holy crap, GIBs flying the jet...BUT when on exchange with the
>> USAF, in
>> the F-4D, some WSOs I flew with were damn good.
>>
>> Is there a USN reg yet about when the WSO can fly? No WSO flying below
>> 10,000
>> ft AGL for the USAF when I was there.
>>
>> What happens if they start to grab things around the bopat when they are
>> scared?? Can the pilot uncouple these??
>> P. C. Chisholm
>> CDR, USN(ret.)
>> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
>> Phlyer
>
> Whoa, pardner! I didn't mean to start a rogue thread.
>
> The (S) version with the stick is a "trainer" just like the D model is
> now--i.e. they're flown with FRS students in the front, IP's in the trunk.
> With the (T) version (side stick mission controllers), they put IP's in
> the
> front and student WSO's in the back. The fleet squadron's don¹t have 'em.
> The only squadron that has the (S) version now is VFA-122 (FRS).
>
> Fleet F squadrons have the (T) exclusively. Sorry if I miscommunicated
> less
> than clearly.
>
> --Woody
>
To clarify once more, the F can be field configured as a dual-control
trainer as is done with some jets at VFA-122 or as in the intended mission
role with flight controls in the front cockpit only. The wizzo has two side
stick "mission" controller joysticks for weapons system directions, but
cannot drive the jet. It only takes a few minutes to add or remove the rear
cockpit flight controls with the fly by wire design.

[NimBill]

>From: (Pechs1)

>I say-pretty kool. We always one RIO in VF-126, Mine was Tony Hauserman. He
>isnow at FedEx, flyin', due to the 'co-pilot' time he logged in the TA-4.He
>also owned a Beech twin something or other, actually started a teeny
>airlinewith it, to get flight time. Went to FedEx, succesfully got hired. P.
>C. ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter
>and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

While at VF-126 did you you ever serve under Adm. Feild day Freddy Fellows Or
Paul Guilchrist?

[Raymond Marshall]

billwg wrote:
> To clarify once more, the F can be field configured as a dual-control
> trainer as is done with some jets at VFA-122 or as in the intended mission
> role with flight controls in the front cockpit only. The wizzo has two side

I've been thinking about that. Is it a service mindset that any
Navy jet I know about that had a backseater for missions has
never had flight controls? Talking to some of my Air Farce
friends the Strike Eagle has flight controls in the backseat all
the time. I got the impression that was an Air Force mindset...
is it true of other Air Force tactical aircraft?

Thanks,

Ray

[Pechs1]

NIMBILL asks-<< While at VF-126 did you you ever serve under Adm. Feild day
Freddy Fellows Or
Paul Guilchrist? >><BR><BR>

No. FITFUD was Red Best, then Capt Kurt Schantz, then Anselmo. AIRPAC was
Fetterman and I flushed the next guy otta my memory. A member of the 'Kelso,
Kelley, K______ Klub that hammered all those at Tailhook '91, to protect their
own asses.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

Ray-<< Is it a service mindset that any
Navy jet I know about that had a backseater for missions has
never had flight controls? >><BR><BR>

That is correct, for fleet aircraft, not 'T' aircraft. The USN F-4 never had
flight controls in the back. Some USMC 'B' modles had boltons but not USN B
models.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[John Carrier]

Actually, I think VF-101 had some early F-4A's (skinny nose, small rear
cockpit) that had R/C stick. Didn't last long though.

R / John

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Ray-<< Is it a service mindset that any
> Navy jet I know about that had a backseater for missions has
> never had flight controls? >><BR><BR>
>
> That is correct, for fleet aircraft, not 'T' aircraft. The USN F-4 never
> had
> flight controls in the back. Some USMC 'B' modles had boltons but not USN
> B
> models.
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
> Phlyer

[NimBill]

>From: (Pechs1)
>Newsgroups:

>NIMBILL asks-<< While at VF-126 did you you ever serve under Adm. Feild day
>Freddy Fellows Or
>Paul Guilchrist? >>
>
>No. FITFUD was Red Best, then Capt Kurt Schantz, then Anselmo. AIRPAC
>wasFetterman and I flushed the next guy otta my memory. A member of the
>'Kelso,Kelley, K______ Klub that hammered all those at Tailhook '91, to
>protect theirown asses.P. C. ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer
>Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>

Back in those days I was just an enlisted puke but on the inspection team. I
was on the COMFITAEWWINGPAC Staff from 1979-1982. It was my only shore duty in
22 years of service.

I worked with George Salamone a civilan and Commander Pryor under Admirals
Fellows, Guilchrist and Furlong.

[NimBill]

>From: (Pechs1)
>Newsgroups:

>Ray-<< Is it a service mindset that any
>Navy jet I know about that had a backseater for missions has
>never had flight controls? >>
>
>That is correct, for fleet aircraft, not 'T' aircraft. The USN F-4 never
>hadflight controls in the back. Some USMC 'B' modles had boltons but not USN
>Bmodels.P. C. ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey,
>Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>

I concur! We did crash a Phantom with remote controls while I was at Roosevelt
Roads. Think it was an F-4B but do not remember exactly.