LSO Stopwatches

[F9pnthr]

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and stopping
their watches?

[Larry]

"F9pnthr" > wrote in message
...
> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
using
> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
stopping
> their watches?

I've not seen that picture but I'd be willing to bet they are not holding
stopwatches. They should be holding the 'pickle' that controls the waveoff
lights (in one hand) and a mic (to communicate with the pilot over the
radio) in the other.

That is if I recall my EAWS correctly.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
, "F9pnthr" >
wrote:

> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are using
> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and stopping
> their watches?

At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the pass
(15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.

--Woody

[John Carrier]

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
> , "F9pnthr" >
> wrote:
>
>> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
>> using
>> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
>> stopping
>> their watches?
>
> At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
> pass
> (15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
judgement?

> Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
> Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?

R / John

[nafod40]

F9pnthr wrote:
> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are using
> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and stopping
> their watches?

Those are actually mirrors they are gazing at.

"Man, look at that cool tan."

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/8/04 2:27 PM, in article , "John
Carrier" > wrote:

>
> "Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
>> , "F9pnthr" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
>>> using
>>> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
>>> stopping
>>> their watches?
>>
>> At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
>> pass
>> (15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.
>
> Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
> judgement?
>

Trick is... Where does the groove start? e.g. wings level slimin' over on a
(AA)?

>> Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
>> Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).
>
> No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?
>

As long as it's greater than 11 seconds you're okay. Oh yes, I sort of
misspoke. It's an automatic DOWNGRADE if you goon up groove length.

> R / John

I sympathize. I remember LSO's eyeball-checking groove length and interval,
but my last cruise was the first I've ever seen the stop watch. Again with
the fuzzy definition of where the groove starts, I sort of looked at that
stat with a jaundiced eye.

In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them. Now
paddles is in on the game too.

Finally, the SH break (stern or prior doing big bills on the speed) will
still buy you an upgrade if you don't screw up your groove, interval, or fly
a heinous pass (and depending on the boss's mood).

--Woody

[Mike Kanze]

Woody,

>In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
>one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them. Now
>paddles is in on the game too.

During the Lizards' 1973 CORAL MARU cruise, one of the duties of our rep in
Pri-Fly was to jot down the arrestment-to-arrestment time interval between
each Lizard and his immediate predecessor. Lizard OPS tracked this until
about halfway through cruise, and used the data as a supplement to each
pilot's LSO-graded pass.

I thought this an excellent idea, especially as we were all but an outfit of
nuggets (the Lizards stood up as an A-6 outfit only the year before).
Further, our predecessor A-6 squadron in CVW-15, VMA(AW)-224, had had a
rather checkered deployment during CORAL MARU's 1972 cruise, so we knew that
we would be under close observation until we re-established the worthiness
of medium attack in folks' eyes.

Another thing that helped our reputation immediately with the ships company
was our scraping all the "Semper Fi" zaps and other Corps graffiti from the
Bengal's spaces (now ours). Only Gator blackshoes have the temperament to
deal with lots of red and gold on gray ships. <g>
--
Mike Kanze

"Never forget ... Being your own boss means being your own janitor."

- Adam @ Home, 3/27/04


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
...
> On 12/8/04 2:27 PM, in article , "John
> Carrier" > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
>>> , "F9pnthr"
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
>>>> using
>>>> their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
>>>> stopping
>>>> their watches?
>>>
>>> At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
>>> pass
>>> (15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.
>>
>> Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
>> judgement?
>>
>
> Trick is... Where does the groove start? e.g. wings level slimin' over on
> a
> (AA)?
>
>>> Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the
>>> Groove).
>>> Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).
>>
>> No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?
>>
>
> As long as it's greater than 11 seconds you're okay. Oh yes, I sort of
> misspoke. It's an automatic DOWNGRADE if you goon up groove length.
>
>> R / John
>
> I sympathize. I remember LSO's eyeball-checking groove length and
> interval,
> but my last cruise was the first I've ever seen the stop watch. Again
> with
> the fuzzy definition of where the groove starts, I sort of looked at that
> stat with a jaundiced eye.
>
> In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
> one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them.
> Now
> paddles is in on the game too.
>
> Finally, the SH break (stern or prior doing big bills on the speed) will
> still buy you an upgrade if you don't screw up your groove, interval, or
> fly
> a heinous pass (and depending on the boss's mood).
>
> --Woody
>

[Pechs1]

John writes-<< Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling
LSO's
judgement?
>><BR><BR>
<< No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh? >><BR><BR>

I say, no kiddin'....I saw a pic of a bunch of them looking at a video screen
also for lineup...even on smallish decks. Oh well...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

Nafod-<< Those are actually mirrors they are gazing at.

"Man, look at that cool tan." >><BR><BR>

Yep but who taught the LSOs how to read time, or write for that matter?
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[[email protected]]

On 09 Dec 2004 14:10:08 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote:

>Nafod-<< Those are actually mirrors they are gazing at.
>
>"Man, look at that cool tan." >><BR><BR>
>
>Yep but who taught the LSOs how to read time, or write for that matter?

Marines?!?!?!?

Bill Kambic <ducking and running>

[nafod40]

Pechs1 wrote:
> Nafod-<< Those are actually mirrors they are gazing at.
>
> "Man, look at that cool tan." >><BR><BR>
>
> Yep but who taught the LSOs how to read time, or write for that matter?

Ahaha..uh...sorry Pechs, NEPIC SAR T1

[Mike Kanze]

Pechs,

>Yep but who taught the LSOs how to read time, or write for that matter?

....or even see.

There's been a T-shirt for sale at every Tailhook Association convention for
the past several years showing an LSO on the platform, dark glasses over his
eyes.

His seeing-eye dog is working the radio.

BTW, this T-shirt is sold by the LSO School instructors. I guess it
replenishes their coffee mess treasury.
--
Mike Kanze

"Never forget ... Being your own boss means being your own janitor."

- Adam @ Home, 3/27/04


"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Nafod-<< Those are actually mirrors they are gazing at.
>
> "Man, look at that cool tan." >><BR><BR>
>
> Yep but who taught the LSOs how to read time, or write for that matter?
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
> Phlyer

[nafod40]

Mike Kanze wrote:
> There's been a T-shirt for sale at every Tailhook Association convention for
> the past several years showing an LSO on the platform, dark glasses over his
> eyes.
>
> His seeing-eye dog is working the radio.
>
> BTW, this T-shirt is sold by the LSO School instructors. I guess it
> replenishes their coffee mess treasury.

Got a couple in the t-shirt drawer. Chicks dig'em.

[Elmshoot]

>
>Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
>or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.
>

My favorite was when I was leading the division of A6 into the break behind the
Turkeys. Usually the last turkey was on down wind. (I'd spin a few or take them
all into the break) He was my interval, being the last Tom usually ment that
was a nuggett pilot. He would usually fly too wide an approach get himself LIG
so I would press him hard and fly a tight downwind, turn early and since I was
flying the "correct pattern" he would get a LIG WO.
This would hurt not only his personal landing grades but also the squadrons
oveal average.


Its called gamesmanship and it worked for almost the entire cruise until the
Turkeys learned how to fly the proper pattern. Fun in the Case 1 pattern!!!!!

Sparky

[Pechs1]

nafod-<< NEPIC SAR T1
>><BR><BR>

A 'no good'? Oh well, not the first one I got.

A peek is worth a thousand scans.'
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/11/04 8:54 AM, in article
, "Pechs1" >
wrote:

> nafod-<< NEPIC SAR T1
>>> <BR><BR>
>
> A 'no good'? Oh well, not the first one I got.
>
> A peek is worth a thousand scans.'

"Never pass up a perfectly good wire--especially at night."

Or

"A three wire is just two less chances to bolter."

--Woody

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 12/10/04 11:28 PM, in article
, "Elmshoot" >
wrote:

>>
>> Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
>> or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.
>>
>
> My favorite was when I was leading the division of A6 into the break behind
> the
> Turkeys. Usually the last turkey was on down wind. (I'd spin a few or take
> them
> all into the break) He was my interval, being the last Tom usually ment that
> was a nuggett pilot. He would usually fly too wide an approach get himself LIG
> so I would press him hard and fly a tight downwind, turn early and since I was
> flying the "correct pattern" he would get a LIG WO.
> This would hurt not only his personal landing grades but also the squadrons
> oveal average.
>
>
> Its called gamesmanship and it worked for almost the entire cruise until the
> Turkeys learned how to fly the proper pattern. Fun in the Case 1 pattern!!!!!
>
> Sparky

Sparky,

Your story has sparked a rather misty-eyed reminiscence.

Aside from the above games (which make Naval aviation a HOOT), One of the
things I love about the boat (as opposed to airline flying) is that AVIATORS
control the pattern.

I absolutely DIG flying around the boat and being held accountable for my
own decisions. How many to bring into the break. When to break. How much
G to use. How much interval. It's the best environment. Thanks for the
memories.

--Woody

[Elmshoot]

Woody,
I would still be in the Navy flying off the carrier if they would have let me.
The Brits do it right they have aviators that stay flying and the others chase
the stars.
Nothing prettier than a zip lip case one revovery. Everyone is responsible and
does their job. The perfect sortie: morning pinkie launch, press inland on a
low level to the Tgt. First run bullseye, low level egress to feet wet .
Marshall overhead watch the next launch, press the deck, first plane in the
groove as the last plane clears the deck. Zip lip recovery with everyone
getting aboard on the first pass. 'Ok" pass down to the ready room for coffee
and breakfast. Afternoon launch for a full stop on the beach for happy hour.

The airline guys I fly with will never understand unless they have done it them
self as well.
Sparky


Aside from the above games (which make Naval aviation a HOOT), One of the
>things I love about the boat (as opposed to airline flying) is that AVIATORS
>control the pattern.
>
>I absolutely DIG flying around the boat and being held accountable for my
>own decisions. How many to bring into the break. When to break. How much
>G to use. How much interval. It's the best environment. Thanks for the
>memories.
>
>--Woody

[Frijoles]

For those of you needing translation --

"no apparent fear of death" given this pass -- NEPIC SAR T1 (Not enough
power in close, settle at the ramp, taxi 1-wire)

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> nafod-<< NEPIC SAR T1
> >><BR><BR>
>
> A 'no good'? Oh well, not the first one I got.
>
> A peek is worth a thousand scans.'
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
> Phlyer

[nafod40]

Pechs1 wrote:
> nafod-<< NEPIC SAR T1
> >><BR><BR>
>
> A 'no good'? Oh well, not the first one I got.
>
> A peek is worth a thousand scans.'

Yea, but didn't you see those flashing red lights on the left side?
Don't forget to peak at the lens too. :)

Which brings back fond memories of waving in the North Atlantic, waving
a turkey that was fixing a HIM-IC, and watching him taxi by to his one
wire, seeing the pilot's head locked in the upright and forward
position, illuminated by the flashing reds.

As CAG paddles said to me..."At least it was easy to grade."

[Pechs1]

NAFOD for a NEPIC SAR T1? Nope. No underlines, probably didn't even get
anybody into the net. I have done a few of these...never got less than a NG, no
'cuts'.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer