Anyone have any experience with the F7U "Gutless Cutlass"

[MuseumTech]

I was wondering if there were any retired Naval Aviators who have
flight hours logged with the dreaded F7U Cutlass. I work at the
National Museum of Naval Aviation here in Pensacola. We currently have
one on display. Aesthetically speaking, it's a pretty nice looking
plane, but I have read a lot of negative things about it. Were the
flaws merely due to the low performance of the Westinghouse engine?
Were there other flaws? I would love to hear any stories from people
who flew this plane.
Thank you and Happy Holidays

[Greasy Rider]

On 22 Dec 2004 10:35:25 -0800, "MuseumTech" >
postulated :
>I was wondering if there were any retired Naval Aviators who have
>flight hours logged with the dreaded F7U Cutlass. I work at the
>National Museum of Naval Aviation here in Pensacola. We currently have
>one on display. Aesthetically speaking, it's a pretty nice looking
>plane, but I have read a lot of negative things about it. Were the
>flaws merely due to the low performance of the Westinghouse engine?
>Were there other flaws? I would love to hear any stories from people
>who flew this plane.
> Thank you and Happy Holidays

If you Google F7U Cutlass you will get several hits.

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/vought/f7u-3.htm

Buried down in there are several comments about the Cutlass and one is
allegedly by a F7U pilot with his e-mail address shown.

There are several more hits on the F7U.

[John Carrier]

I didn't fly it (got its successor, the F-8 which used some of the concepts
developed in the Cutlass). From those that did, if you don't mind 2nd hand
info.

Systems (Hydraulics, electrical, etc) were unreliable. Underpowered in
basic engine (as were most navy jets of the era). The tailless design used
ailevators (ailerons also serving as elevators) which unfortunately acted to
decamber the wing (reducing lift) as they were commanded trailing edge up
(to increase attitude, AOA and lift). It was unforgiving around the boat.
I think it enjoyed a level of mediocrity shore based (fun to fly, one great
turn), but never actually deployed. The Blues used one briefly as a solo
aircraft. First Navy jet with afterburner. Longest nose strut ever
installed in a tactical aircraft. Seat modified to tilt forward for
improved vis during approach.

Noteworthy developments. Balsa/aluminum sandwich (the balsa was cut
crossgrain, Vought had a patented name for it, can't remember anymore)
construction for lightweight strength ... a poor man's honeycomb concept.
Trim system using potentiometer (thumbwheels) on stick for pitch and roll
trim vice the ubiquitous "coolly hat" trim button ... superior IMO, perhaps
not as reliable though I never experienced a primary trim failure in the
F-8. Early yaw and roll stab systems.

R / John

"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On 22 Dec 2004 10:35:25 -0800, "MuseumTech" >
> postulated :
>>I was wondering if there were any retired Naval Aviators who have
>>flight hours logged with the dreaded F7U Cutlass. I work at the
>>National Museum of Naval Aviation here in Pensacola. We currently have
>>one on display. Aesthetically speaking, it's a pretty nice looking
>>plane, but I have read a lot of negative things about it. Were the
>>flaws merely due to the low performance of the Westinghouse engine?
>>Were there other flaws? I would love to hear any stories from people
>>who flew this plane.
>> Thank you and Happy Holidays
>
> If you Google F7U Cutlass you will get several hits.
>
> http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/vought/f7u-3.htm
>
> Buried down in there are several comments about the Cutlass and one is
> allegedly by a F7U pilot with his e-mail address shown.
>
> There are several more hits on the F7U.

[Greasy Rider]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:51:44 -0600, "John Carrier" >
postulated :


>I think it enjoyed a level of mediocrity shore based (fun to fly, one great
>turn), but never actually deployed.

While at Port Lyautey in 1956 I saw a squadron of Cutlass (VA-66?)
stop in for a few weeks. I think they were from the Champlain
operating in the Med. One did a wheels up landing at Lyautey and the
pilot suffered a broken back. A wheel watch duty was created until
they left.

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

"...Longest nose strut ever installed in a tactical aircraft. Seat modified
to tilt forward for improved vis during approach...."

I remember seeing a movie of carrier deck crashes where a Cutlass came in
cocked up, snagged a wire, slammed down, drove the nose wheel strut up
through the cockpit, fired the ejection seat, seat and pilot came down in
the fore deck pack. Truncated yet another promising Naval Aviator career!

On the Shangri La 1956 deployment we had a VX-4 Cutlass four plane det. with
Sparrow missiles for early fleet evaluation. They were all old pilots (but
still a little bold) who had few if any problems flying their "barn doors"
around the boat.

WDA
CDR USN Ret.

end

"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
>I didn't fly it (got its successor, the F-8 which used some of the concepts
>developed in the Cutlass). From those that did, if you don't mind 2nd hand
>info.
>
> Systems (Hydraulics, electrical, etc) were unreliable. Underpowered in
> basic engine (as were most navy jets of the era). The tailless design
> used ailevators (ailerons also serving as elevators) which unfortunately
> acted to decamber the wing (reducing lift) as they were commanded trailing
> edge up (to increase attitude, AOA and lift). It was unforgiving around
> the boat. I think it enjoyed a level of mediocrity shore based (fun to
> fly, one great turn), but never actually deployed. The Blues used one
> briefly as a solo aircraft. First Navy jet with afterburner. Longest
> nose strut ever installed in a tactical aircraft. Seat modified to tilt
> forward for improved vis during approach.
>
> Noteworthy developments. Balsa/aluminum sandwich (the balsa was cut
> crossgrain, Vought had a patented name for it, can't remember anymore)
> construction for lightweight strength ... a poor man's honeycomb concept.
> Trim system using potentiometer (thumbwheels) on stick for pitch and roll
> trim vice the ubiquitous "coolly hat" trim button ... superior IMO,
> perhaps not as reliable though I never experienced a primary trim failure
> in the F-8. Early yaw and roll stab systems.
>
> R / John
>
> "Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 22 Dec 2004 10:35:25 -0800, "MuseumTech" >
>> postulated :
>>>I was wondering if there were any retired Naval Aviators who have
>>>flight hours logged with the dreaded F7U Cutlass. I work at the
>>>National Museum of Naval Aviation here in Pensacola. We currently have
>>>one on display. Aesthetically speaking, it's a pretty nice looking
>>>plane, but I have read a lot of negative things about it. Were the
>>>flaws merely due to the low performance of the Westinghouse engine?
>>>Were there other flaws? I would love to hear any stories from people
>>>who flew this plane.
>>> Thank you and Happy Holidays
>>
>> If you Google F7U Cutlass you will get several hits.
>>
>> http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/vought/f7u-3.htm
>>
>> Buried down in there are several comments about the Cutlass and one is
>> allegedly by a F7U pilot with his e-mail address shown.
>>
>> There are several more hits on the F7U.
>
>

[[email protected]]

My father bored some holes in the sky in the F7U, in both the
non-afterburner and afterburner versions, while CO of VX-5 in
'54-'55. Ray Hawkins ran the F7U program in the squadron. Got
some photos around here somewhere.

I've heard it said that the only reason the Navy bought the F7U was
to keep Vought in business until they could develop the F8U. Can't
vouch for that, though.

Rich

[[email protected]]

And Ray Hawkins was a wheel at the Museum for a long time ... maybe he
left some papers in the library. Might be worth a look.

Rich

[José Herculano]

> turn), but never actually deployed. The Blues used one briefly as a solo

It did deploy.
_____________
José Herculano

[Pechs1]

Since you are from the museum, do you know Stoney Myock? Supposed to be on the
staff there. Retired USMC Aviator, former Blues member.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[[email protected]]

Cutlass was deployed to the Pacific around 1955/6. One came into Naha
AB, Okinawa, while I was there flying F86Ds in the 25 FIS. We were
ready to be impressed when this exotic fighter with two (2!)
afterburners took off. Unfortunately, we were not at all impressed -
its T/O performance was marginal. We did get to walk around it while it
was parked on the ramp. BTW not only did that bird have the longest
nose gear strut, I think it was also the thickest and heaviest one ever
mounted on a fighter. -Walt BJ

[Elmshoot]

>Unfortunately, we were not at all impressed -
>its T/O performance was marginal. W

A friend of mine who was flying Fords at the time told me about the time he was
in the hold short and a Cutlass was cleared for takoff. The guy pulled onto the
runway and lit both burners while sitting still with the brakes locked and it
didn't slide from the excess Thrust.
How much different our story would be if the engines were providing the
specified thrust instead of the ultimate DOG!
Sparky

[w4okw]

Didn't they call it the "Ensign Eater?

Tom
"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Since you are from the museum, do you know Stoney Myock? Supposed to be on
the
> staff there. Retired USMC Aviator, former Blues member.
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

[R Leonard]

w4okw wrote:
> Didn't they call it the "Ensign Eater?
>
> Tom

Not an unusual nickname, "Ensign Eater" or "Ensign Eliminator"
F4U's, F7U's, F3H's, for examples, were all so referred to.

Rich

[Mike Kanze]

The Whale (A-3) was known as the "Ensign Killer" for a time.

--
Mike Kanze

"Seismic jitters extend all the way across the Mediterranean. One day all
of Gaul may indeed be divided into three parts, as Africa's rotation bonks
Corsica into the Côte d'Azur, avenging Napoleon and Hannibal alike."

- Russell Seitz, reviewing the book EARTHQUAKES IN HUMAN HISTORY


"R Leonard" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> w4okw wrote:
>> Didn't they call it the "Ensign Eater?
>>
>> Tom
>
> Not an unusual nickname, "Ensign Eater" or "Ensign Eliminator"
> F4U's, F7U's, F3H's, for examples, were all so referred to.
>
> Rich
>

[TD Hkg]

I was wondering if there were any retired Naval Aviators who have
flight hours logged with the dreaded F7U Cutlass. I work at the
National Museum of Naval Aviation here in Pensacola. We currently have
one on display. Aesthetically speaking, it's a pretty nice looking
plane, but I have read a lot of negative things about it. Were the
flaws merely due to the low performance of the Westinghouse engine?
Were there other flaws? I would love to hear any stories from people
who flew this plane.
Thank you and Happy Holidays

A group of F7Us landed at NAHA Air force base to use NAF for refueling. The Air Force want to test it F86D against the F7U. The test was preformed by lining up one F86D and one F7U together at take off end of the runway. They both would leave with a signal from the tower.

Results: On the signal the left together. After a short distance the F7U fired it afterburner and left the runway surface. The F86D was left behind struggling to get enough air speed to lift off.

We were later told the F7U was a good aircraft carrier plane because one missed the a trap and hit the catch barrier. The plane was not fully stopped because the noise gear collapsed and the barrier did not bring the plan to a safe stop.

I am 76 year old. I was 18 in 1955 when the F7Us came to us. Everyone want to see the planes. I took pictures and I believe my grandson may now have them.