USB Cable type for Cambridge 302 Flight Recorder

[Canav8]

I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has the
USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download the
data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable was
necessary to download the files but there are different types of USB
cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from one
laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies. Doug

[Darryl Ramm]

On Aug 28, 8:33*am, Canav8 > wrote:
> I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has the
> USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download the
> data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable was
> necessary to download the files but there are different types of USB
> cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from one
> laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
> connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
> numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies. Doug

Call Cambridge. And while at it ask them why they put a USB "A"
receptacle on a USB slave device. How hard would it have been to put a
proper USB B or mini-B connector and just let this work with standard
USB cables?

Darryl

[John Galloway[_1_]]

At 15:33 28 August 2010, Canav8 wrote:
>I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has
the
>USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download
the
>data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable
was
>necessary to download the files but there are different types of
USB
>cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from
one
>laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
>connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
>numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies.
Doug


By chance, earlier today, I mentioned to a computer literate friend
that I could not get my 302A USB to connect to any PC computer.
When I try it the mouse pointer just jumps about all over the place.
He suggested that I should disable Windows Intellimouse because it
sounds as if the the PC is thinking that the 302A is a mouse. I
have not had a chance to try this yet.

John Galloway

[Canav8]

Has anyone been successful downloading from the CAI 302 to a laptop?
With the USB port? can anyone supply instructions. I know its the
weekend. I should be flying but its to windy today. Thanks.

[Canav8]

On Aug 28, 9:09*am, John Galloway > wrote:
> At 15:33 28 August 2010, Canav8 wrote:>I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has
> the
> >USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download
> the
> >data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable
> was
> >necessary to download the files but there are different types of
> USB
> >cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from
> one
> >laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
> >connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
> >numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies.
>
> Doug
>
> By chance, earlier today, I mentioned to a computer literate friend
> that I could not get my 302A USB to connect to any PC computer. *
> When I try it the mouse pointer just jumps about all over the place. *
> He suggested that I should disable Windows Intellimouse because it
> sounds as if the the PC is thinking that the 302A is a mouse. *I
> have not had a chance to try this yet.
>
> John Galloway

John, that will probably do it. I am using a laptop that does not have
a USB mouse.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Aug 28, 9:09*am, John Galloway > wrote:
> At 15:33 28 August 2010, Canav8 wrote:>I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has
> the
> >USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download
> the
> >data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable
> was
> >necessary to download the files but there are different types of
> USB
> >cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from
> one
> >laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
> >connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
> >numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies.
>
> Doug
>
> By chance, earlier today, I mentioned to a computer literate friend
> that I could not get my 302A USB to connect to any PC computer. *
> When I try it the mouse pointer just jumps about all over the place. *
> He suggested that I should disable Windows Intellimouse because it
> sounds as if the the PC is thinking that the 302A is a mouse. *I
> have not had a chance to try this yet.
>
> John Galloway

Actually that likely is not the primary issue here, since I suspect
you are just using the wrong USB cable.

Does Cambridge not provide any documentation? Do they not provide a
cable? Especially since they make what looks like a weird type A
receptacle choice.

Judging by the number of problems I see people having with this
adapter, I'd not waste my time upgrading an existing C302 to get this.

Oh alright, since you seem eager,...

AFAIK the USB port in the C302 is just a generic USB to serial
adapter. The slide switch just connects the internal serial port to
the serial side of the USB adapter or to the "classic" DB-9 serial
connector. So the C302 adapter really has no benefit over an external
USB to serial adapter, so if you have one of those that already works
just use it. I like the Kesypan USA-19HS and have good results using
it with both Windows XP and recent Mac OS/X platforms. And buying this
adapter is probably several times cheaper than upgrading a C302 to add
the USB port.

As a slave device the C302 internal USB to serial adapter should have
a type -B connector and then any cable would work. But for some
unexplained reason Cambridge put an A- receptacle on the C302.

If you have a USB type A to USB type A cable that you use to network
between two PCs/laptops (aka a "peer-to-peer", "host-to-host", or "USB-
networking" cable) then it will have active electronics in it to
interface between two USB host devices. That would be the wrong type
of cable here, since you are connecting a USB-host and a USB-slave.

What you need here is plain USB type A male-plug to USB type A male-
plug cable, the type with no active electronics. These cables are
available but not all that common. You can also find USB type B
receptacle to type A plug adapters that you can plug onto the type B
(square end) of a conventional USB Type A to type B cable. However
don't go plugging two computers (USB hosts) together with these
cables, there is a slight chance of damage.

--

Once you have this working can you use the device manager in Windows
and give me some information on the chipset in the C302. Go to the
Windows device manager and look under "Universal Serial Bus
Controllers" and expand that list and double-click on what looks like
the USB to serial converter and tell me what is on the "General" and
"Driver>Driver Details" panels.

Darryl

[JS]

With my latest 302, a USB cable (type A to A) was provided. I am not
at home to meter it to see if it's a turn-around ("null modem" or
"crossover") type. I tried to use it once and failed, couldn't be
bothered. Use requires removing the glider's canopy, switching the 302
port from serial to USB, and connecting the USB cable. Much easier to
continue transfers with the serial cable to the PDA.
Jim

[Darryl Ramm]

On Aug 28, 1:56*pm, JS > wrote:
> With my latest 302, a USB cable (type A to A) was provided. I am not
> at home to meter it to see if it's a turn-around ("null modem" or
> "crossover") type. I tried to use it once and failed, couldn't be
> bothered. Use requires removing the glider's canopy, switching the 302
> port from serial to USB, and connecting the USB cable. Much easier to
> continue transfers with the serial cable to the PDA.
> Jim

Jim

It is a common point of confusion but there is no such thing as a
"null modem" or "crossover" USB cable (but I've seen people refer to
the USB host-host adapter cables with active electronics in them as
"crossover" cables). USB uses a differential signaled bus. There is
no separate transmit/receive wires to "cross over" as the data travels
both directions on "the wire". There is the + and - side of the
differential data wires--but you do not want to cross those over!
There are also ground and bus power wires and normally that's all.

The problem is whether a USB host or USB client device is plugged into
each end of a bus link. You need one USB host on a bus. The
conventional A and B style cabling plug were designed to make it all
"just work". Cambridge mess that up here, for what reason I know not.

Darryl

[P9]

Yes, most likely, Windows will "think" that your 302 is a mouse. This
is a bug called Crazy Mouse Syndrome.

Boot the computer with the 302 on and connected. The curser will be
jumping all over and all sorts of weird stuff will be happening.
Switch off the USB port. The computer will settle down.
Select Control Panel - System-Hardware-Device Manager
Click on the + next to Mice and other pointing devices
Click on "Microsoft Serial Ball Point" (what Windows "thinks" your
302 is)
Select "Actions" and then "Disable"
Close all windows
Reboot with the 302 connected
This worked for me - good luck. (This was written up from notes I made
a couple of years ago when I had the USB mod done. Hopefully, I took
good notes....)

Yes, you can use a USB to serial adapter rather than springing for the
USB mod to the 302. After 3 laptops, 4 USB to serial adapters, and
one PCMCIA to serial adapter, I finally
got a system that worked - except during contests and badge flights.
Then again, I am not a computer guru.... Of course, the only reason
why I went through all this crap is because my ancient laptop with a
serial port finally died.

When mounted in my glider, access to the rear of the 302 is
difficult. The solution is simple - remote the USB port and the
switch. Talk to the fine folks at Cambride before sending in the 302,
and let them know what you want to do. They can make the necessary
mods to the 302. I had the USB port and the switch mounted on the
instrument panel. It has worked flawlessly for the past 2 seasons.
Very simple and easy to use. Fire up the computer, connect the cable,
throw the switch, up/download using the Cambridge software. I keep
the USB cable in a zip lock bag inside a pouch attached to the seat
back. During contests, I also stash a net book (my dedicated "Soaring
Computer") behind the seat. (HP mini from Costco running MS Windows
XP Home Edition ver 2002 Service Pack 3)

As far as the cable goes, I am clueless. All I know is that it is not
a standard USB cable. When the USB mod was done, it came with the
correct cable. The only thing that I did was to take it to the local
computer store and tell them "Get me one just like this." One is
kept in the glider, the other, in my "glider box". Cheap insurance.

Hope some of this was useful to somebody.

[Paul Remde]

Hi John,

I saw the same problem after connecting a 302 to my PC for the first time.
But the problem went away after I rebooted my PC.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"John Galloway" > wrote in message
...
> At 15:33 28 August 2010, Canav8 wrote:
>>I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has
> the
>>USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download
> the
>>data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable
> was
>>necessary to download the files but there are different types of
> USB
>>cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from
> one
>>laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
>>connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
>>numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies.
> Doug
>
>
> By chance, earlier today, I mentioned to a computer literate friend
> that I could not get my 302A USB to connect to any PC computer.
> When I try it the mouse pointer just jumps about all over the place.
> He suggested that I should disable Windows Intellimouse because it
> sounds as if the the PC is thinking that the 302A is a mouse. I
> have not had a chance to try this yet.
>
> John Galloway
>

[Canav8]

On Aug 28, 1:46*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Aug 28, 9:09*am, John Galloway > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > At 15:33 28 August 2010, Canav8 wrote:>I recently upgraded a 302A flight recorder at Cambridge. It has
> > the
> > >USB port installed. I am now trying to use my laptop to download
> > the
> > >data. Jeff over at Cambridge did not say what type of USB cable
> > was
> > >necessary to download the files but there are different types of
> > USB
> > >cables. I have a USB to USB for windows to transfer files from
> > one
> > >laptop to another but I am having difficulty with the flight recorder
> > >connecting to the laptop. I have already tried to change the port
> > >numbers as suggested in other threads. Thanks for any replies.
>
> > Doug
>
> > By chance, earlier today, I mentioned to a computer literate friend
> > that I could not get my 302A USB to connect to any PC computer. *
> > When I try it the mouse pointer just jumps about all over the place. *
> > He suggested that I should disable Windows Intellimouse because it
> > sounds as if the the PC is thinking that the 302A is a mouse. *I
> > have not had a chance to try this yet.
>
> > John Galloway
>
> Actually that likely is not the primary issue here, since I suspect
> you are just using the wrong USB cable.
>
> Does Cambridge not provide any documentation? Do they not provide a
> cable? Especially since they make what looks like a weird type A
> receptacle choice.
>
> Judging by the number of problems I see people having with this
> adapter, I'd not waste my time upgrading an existing C302 to get this.
>
> Oh alright, since you seem eager,...
>
> AFAIK the USB port in the C302 is just a generic USB to serial
> adapter. The slide switch just connects the internal serial port to
> the serial side of the USB adapter or to the "classic" DB-9 serial
> connector. So the C302 adapter really has no benefit over an external
> USB to serial adapter, so if you have one of those that already works
> just use it. I like the Kesypan USA-19HS and have good results using
> it with both Windows XP and recent Mac OS/X platforms. And buying this
> adapter is probably several times cheaper than upgrading a C302 to add
> the USB port.
>
> As a slave device the C302 internal USB to serial adapter should have
> a type -B connector and then any cable would work. But for some
> unexplained reason Cambridge put an A- receptacle on the C302.
>
> If you have a USB type A to USB type A cable that you use to network
> between two PCs/laptops (aka a "peer-to-peer", "host-to-host", or "USB-
> networking" cable) then it will have active electronics in it to
> interface between two USB host devices. That would be the wrong type
> of cable here, since you are connecting a USB-host and a USB-slave.
>
> What you need here is plain USB type A male-plug to USB type A male-
> plug cable, the type with no active electronics. These cables are
> available but not all that common. You can also find USB type B
> receptacle to type A plug adapters that you can plug onto the type B
> (square end) of a conventional USB Type A to type B cable. However
> don't go plugging two computers (USB hosts) together with these
> cables, there is a slight chance of damage.
>
> --
>
> Once you have this working can you use the device manager in Windows
> and give me some information on the chipset in the C302. Go to the
> Windows device manager and look under "Universal Serial Bus
> Controllers" and expand that list and double-click on what looks like
> the USB to serial converter and tell me what is on the "General" and
> "Driver>Driver Details" panels.
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Darryl, here is the data you were seeking for the 302A.

General tab:
Manufacturer: FTDI

Driver tab:
Driver date:7/12/2010
Driver version:2.8.2.0
Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatible Pub...

Driver File Details
Driver files:
C:\\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\ftser2k.sys
C:\\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\serenum.sys
C:\\WINDOWS\system32\ftcserco.dll
C:\\WINDOWS\system32\ftserui2.dll
Provider: FTDI Ltd.
File version: 2.08.02 built by: WinDDK
Copyright (c) 2000-2010 FTDI Ltd.
Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatiblity

Details Tab:
Device Instance Id
FTDIBUS\VID_0403+PID_6001+12345679A\0000

Darryl, thanks for trying to help and being patient. I don't know what
any of the above means but I hope it helps. Doug

[Canav8]

I got the USB to work and all is good. It turns out yes there was an
installation manual with the original 302A and it had the Serial port
on the 302A. I sent it back to Cambridge and they upgraded the 302A to
USB ports. The only problem was the USB port they installed was the
wrong type. They installed a USBA port instead of a USBB. The 302A is
a slave not a primary, but that is a different discussion. Jeff sent
the 302A back to me and I tried to power it up using their
instructions. Well I had got a USBA to USBA cable from Fry's because
there was not one with the upgrade and the instructions said that the
device driver is stored on the unit. Well I got a data transfer cable
with the USBA to USBA connectors. It turns out that was the incorrect
one according to Jeff at Cambridge. I exhausted all my options trying
to get the Windows laptop and the 302A to interface. I was able to
download data on it but upload anything.

I just tried to put my name and the LS-4 data in the 302A but it would
not take. I reread the instructions and even placed calls to Jeff.
This went on for a week. I tried all the different drivers on the
Cambridge site. Nothing worked. Out of the Blue Jeff calls from
Cambridge and we talked. He asked a bunch of questions and the type of
questions he was asking gave me the impression that he had no clue
what he was doing. I thought the whole thing was odd. Jeff did ask one
key question though and he asked if the green LED on the front was on
and stayed on? I told him that it was infact on and said send it back
to me.

So another week goes by and he calls me again and says that the
firmware was erased off of the 302A. I said well could you tell me
what I might have done to do that so I can prevent it from happening
again? He said well there is nothing that the end user can do to erase
it. Well he said he replaced the processor in the 302A. I just got it
back yesterday and played with it. I was able to get it to interface
with both my computers so I am out about $200 for the Upgrade,the
calibrating, and shipping but it is working now. D