Re: Roster of USN ships in S Asia relief effort ?

[John S. Shinal]

Thanks, Errol and Guy.

News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge
speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating
already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or
BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if
incomplete.

Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 :

CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos
CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B
DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B
FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B
LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters
LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos
LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos

15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N

In addition, the 15th MEU has a bunch of engineering equipment and
water purification equipment listed.

There are supposed to be a number of US C-130s operating 24 hr in
addition to the 6 from Australia and 1 from New Zealand, and 4 more
UH-1s from Australia.

That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
territory to cover.

I wonder if they will fly off some F-18s to Guam and rotate in
further helos to LINCOLN ?

Is a "water lift" from LINCOLN's prodigious freshwater
generating capacity feasible ? Apparently there is already a
"breadlift" underway featuring the LINCOLN's bakery (!) .

[Keith Willshaw]

"John S. Shinal" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks, Errol and Guy.
>
> News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge
> speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating
> already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or
> BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if
> incomplete.
>
> Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 :
>
> CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos
> CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B
> DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B
> FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B
> LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters
> LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos
> LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos
>
> 15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N
>
> In addition, the 15th MEU has a bunch of engineering equipment and
> water purification equipment listed.
>
> There are supposed to be a number of US C-130s operating 24 hr in
> addition to the 6 from Australia and 1 from New Zealand, and 4 more
> UH-1s from Australia.
>
> That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
> territory to cover.
>
> I wonder if they will fly off some F-18s to Guam and rotate in
> further helos to LINCOLN ?
>
> Is a "water lift" from LINCOLN's prodigious freshwater
> generating capacity feasible ? Apparently there is already a
> "breadlift" underway featuring the LINCOLN's bakery (!) .
>

The RN have a frigate (HMS Chatham) and the repair ship
RFA Diligence on the way. Diligence is designed to provide
forward repair and maintenance facilities to ships and submarines
operating away from their home ports, so in addition to a variety
of workshops she can also provide, fuel, water and power.

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/navy/listings/l0028.html

Keith

[Charlie Wolf]

Aren't there also some P-3 assets involved? They may not be all U.S.
though....
Regards,

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 14:11:54 GMT,
(John S. Shinal) wrote:

> Thanks, Errol and Guy.
>
> News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge
>speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating
>already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or
>BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if
>incomplete.
>
>Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 :
>
>CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos
>CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B
>DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B
>FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B
>LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters
>LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos
>LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos
>
>15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N
>
>In addition, the 15th MEU has a bunch of engineering equipment and
>water purification equipment listed.
>
>There are supposed to be a number of US C-130s operating 24 hr in
>addition to the 6 from Australia and 1 from New Zealand, and 4 more
>UH-1s from Australia.
>
> That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
>territory to cover.
>
> I wonder if they will fly off some F-18s to Guam and rotate in
>further helos to LINCOLN ?
>
> Is a "water lift" from LINCOLN's prodigious freshwater
>generating capacity feasible ? Apparently there is already a
>"breadlift" underway featuring the LINCOLN's bakery (!) .

[Howard Berkowitz]

In article >,
(John S. Shinal) wrote:


>
> That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
> territory to cover.

What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?
\

[John S. Shinal]

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

>What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
>cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?

One at Bandar Aceh; the runway was blocked by a cargo jet that
had struck debris - now cleared, and accepting flights. The other
airports are all smaller, from what I've heard.

[Keith Willshaw]

"Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (John S. Shinal) wrote:
>
>
>>
>> That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
>> territory to cover.
>
> What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
> cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?
> \

ITN News were talking of heavy airlift assets staging through
Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur with smaller aircraft shuttling
into Banda Aceh .

That airport seems to be fairly primitive, it was closed most
of today after a 737 hit a water buffalo on the runway.
The Buffalo survided and legged it into the jungle , the
737 was left with a collapsed wheel on the runway.

Keith

[Howard Berkowitz]

In article >,
(John S. Shinal) wrote:

> Howard Berkowitz wrote:
>
> >What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
> >cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?
>
> One at Bandar Aceh; the runway was blocked by a cargo jet that
> had struck debris - now cleared, and accepting flights. The other
> airports are all smaller, from what I've heard.
>
>

Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic
management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating
forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but
that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports.

[Dott.Piergiorgio]

Keith Willshaw wrote:

> The Buffalo survided and legged it into the jungle , the
> 737 was left with a collapsed wheel on the runway.

Interesting, Wild 1 Technology O

Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.

[John S. Shinal]

Howard Berkowitz wrote:
>Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic
>management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating
>forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but
>that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports.

15th MEU has these :

4 TRAMs (10,000 lb. Capacity Forklifts)
2 Four Thousand lb. Capacity Forklifts
3 D-7 Bulldozers
30 Five-ton Trucks
1 Dump Truck
4 Logistical Vehicle Systems (LVS)

in addition to 60-odd HMMWVs. The videos I saw showed 'bucket
brigade' lines of people moving huge piles of supplies. I don't think
the early shipments were palletized, I imagine the next ones will be
as things ramp up.

[Errol Cavit]

"Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (John S. Shinal) wrote:
>
>
> >
> > That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
> > territory to cover.
>
> What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
> cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?
>

The Aussies are using Medan as a base for their C-130s. I don't know where
the A-124 that delivered their Hueys landed. BTW, I haven't seen any mention
of them sending any of their
CH-47s.


--
Errol Cavit | | "If you have had enough, then I have
had enough. But if you haven't had enough, then I haven't had enough
either." Maori chief Kawiti to Governor George Grey, after the Battle of
Ruapekapeka 1846.

[Brian Sharrock]

"John S. Shinal" > wrote in message
...
> Howard Berkowitz wrote:
> >Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic
> >management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating
> >forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but
> >that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports.
>
> 15th MEU has these :
>
> 4 TRAMs (10,000 lb. Capacity Forklifts)
> 2 Four Thousand lb. Capacity Forklifts
> 3 D-7 Bulldozers
> 30 Five-ton Trucks
> 1 Dump Truck
> 4 Logistical Vehicle Systems (LVS)
>
> in addition to 60-odd HMMWVs.

It's not clear from the reports (Fox, Sky, BBC, ITN)
whether any of this 'moving' equipment has reached the
shore-areas yet. Certainly some Blackhawks have been
shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end
reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky
updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to
discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world'
has gone down the tone-down route.
[i]
> The videos I saw showed 'bucket
> brigade' lines of people moving huge piles of supplies. I don't think
> the early shipments were palletized, I imagine the next ones will be
> as things ramp up.
>[/color]

This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler
albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_
be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ...
manpower.

[Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to
Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more
frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from
where is needed ... and no accessible route between them]

--

Brian

[Brian Sharrock]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Howard Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > (John S. Shinal) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of
> >> territory to cover.
> >
> > What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large
> > cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy?
> > \
>
> ITN News were talking of heavy airlift assets staging through
> Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur with smaller aircraft shuttling
> into Banda Aceh .
>
> That airport seems to be fairly primitive, it was closed most
> of today after a 737 hit a water buffalo on the runway.
> The Buffalo survided and legged it into the jungle , the
> 737 was left with a collapsed wheel on the runway.
>
The B737 was depicted on the runway resting on its
port engine nacelle ... not quite like the Operating Manual.
It seems to have been fork-lifted off the runway using what
a USMC Cpt stated was 'a great deal of ingenuity and home
-cooking'
The Cpt told SkyNews that the airport had about a days
worth of supplies that the Helo's could deliver but the
teams needed the runway to fly in 'tomorrows' worth of
goodies.

--

Brian

[Kevin Brooks]

"Brian Sharrock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John S. Shinal" > wrote in
> message
> ...
>> Howard Berkowitz wrote:
>> >Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic
>> >management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating
>> >forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but
>> >that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports.
>>
>> 15th MEU has these :
>>
>> 4 TRAMs (10,000 lb. Capacity Forklifts)
>> 2 Four Thousand lb. Capacity Forklifts
>> 3 D-7 Bulldozers
>> 30 Five-ton Trucks
>> 1 Dump Truck
>> 4 Logistical Vehicle Systems (LVS)
>>
>> in addition to 60-odd HMMWVs.
>
> It's not clear from the reports (Fox, Sky, BBC, ITN)
> whether any of this 'moving' equipment has reached the
> shore-areas yet.

I saw a piece of engineer equipment being offloaded from an aircraft on the
news this morning.

Certainly some Blackhawks have been
> shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end
> reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky
> updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to
> discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world'
> has gone down the tone-down route.

So far I have seen both USN and USAF Blackhawks on the video.

Brooks

> [i]
>> The videos I saw showed 'bucket
>> brigade' lines of people moving huge piles of supplies. I don't think
>> the early shipments were palletized, I imagine the next ones will be
>> as things ramp up.
>>
>
> This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler
> albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_
> be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ...
> manpower.
>
> [Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to
> Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more
> frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from
> where is needed ... and no accessible route between them]
>
> --
>
> Brian
>
>
>[/color]

[John S. Shinal]

Updated info from an official source :

http://www.pacom.mil/special/0412asia/factsheet.shtml

[Jim Carriere]

Kevin Brooks wrote:
> So far I have seen both USN and USAF Blackhawks on the video.

Minor nitpick- the USN operates Seahawks, not Blackhawks.

[Guy Alcala]

"John S. Shinal" wrote:

> Thanks, Errol and Guy.
>
> News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge
> speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating
> already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or
> BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if
> incomplete.
>
> Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 :
>
> CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos

But presumably only has her normal HS squadron aboard, i.e. 10 or so
SH/HH-60s.

> CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B
> DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B
> FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B
> LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters
> LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos
> LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos
>
> 15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N

<snip>

Just to be clear, the 42-45 helo capacity listed for LHAs/LHDs like the
BHR is their maximum spotting capacity in CH-46 equivalents (CH-46s are
1.0 spotting factor ea., AH/UH-1s are 0.4 ea., CH-53Es are 2.5 ea., I dont
know what the Harriers are) not how many they're actually carrying. She
is carrying the reinforced marine medium helicopter squadron that makes up
the 15th MEU's Air Combat Element, i.e. the 19 tranport/utility helos you
list above (plus the 4 Cobras and 6 Harriers) for the15th MEU. IIRR
there's also a pair of UH-46 or MH-60 utility birds for Vertrep/SAR, that
are considered separate from the MEU's ACE.

Duluth and Rushmore probably don't bring any extra helos - they have the
_capacity_ to carry some, but these are normally helos deployed to them
from the MEU's ACE complement, not extras.

Guy

[Arved Sandstrom]

"Brian Sharrock" > wrote in message
...
>
[ SNIP ]
> This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler
> albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_
> be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ...
> manpower.
>
> [Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to
> Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more
> frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from
> where is needed ... and no accessible route between them]

Non-trivial point, and well made. You need quite smooth surface to operate a
man-pushed dolly, fairly smooth and firm surface to work a forklift, and
practically any surface you like except mudslides or a cliff to have guys
carry out boxes of supplies.

I trust that only the cleared airports in the affected regions are using
equipment at the moment. Elsewhere it's probably helos bringing stuff in. On
the latter point, I don't know if they have yet airlifted in any light or
medium trucks.

AHS

[Kevin Brooks]

"Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
. ..
> "John S. Shinal" wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Errol and Guy.
>>
>> News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge
>> speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating
>> already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or
>> BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if
>> incomplete.
>>
>> Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 :
>>
>> CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos
>
> But presumably only has her normal HS squadron aboard, i.e. 10 or so
> SH/HH-60s.
>
>> CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B
>> DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B
>> FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B
>> LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters
>> LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos
>> LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos
>>
>> 15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N
>
> <snip>
>
> Just to be clear, the 42-45 helo capacity listed for LHAs/LHDs like the
> BHR is their maximum spotting capacity in CH-46 equivalents (CH-46s are
> 1.0 spotting factor ea., AH/UH-1s are 0.4 ea., CH-53Es are 2.5 ea., I dont
> know what the Harriers are) not how many they're actually carrying. She
> is carrying the reinforced marine medium helicopter squadron that makes up
> the 15th MEU's Air Combat Element, i.e. the 19 tranport/utility helos you
> list above (plus the 4 Cobras and 6 Harriers) for the15th MEU. IIRR
> there's also a pair of UH-46 or MH-60 utility birds for Vertrep/SAR, that
> are considered separate from the MEU's ACE.
>
> Duluth and Rushmore probably don't bring any extra helos - they have the
> _capacity_ to carry some, but these are normally helos deployed to them
> from the MEU's ACE complement, not extras.

Don't discount the possibility of other aircraft being flown into the region
to join them on-station; I heard this morning that the US military plans to
increase dramatically the number of helos that will be operating in the
region (to well over 100); it may make sense to use the CVN and LHD in the
"lillypad" role. USAF Blackhawks have already appeared after being flown in
by C-5/C-17.

Brooks

>
> Guy
>

[Michael Wise]

In article >,
"Brian Sharrock" > wrote:


>...Certainly some Blackhawks have been
> shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end
> reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky
> updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to
> discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world'
> has gone down the tone-down route.
> [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round-
> the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk}


They are Seahawks, and the unit is HS-2 (my alma mater).


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4142047.stm

That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the
helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is
a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN
authorized to have it painted on their aircraft.



--Mike

[Brian Sharrock]

"Michael Wise" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote:
>
>
> >...Certainly some Blackhawks have been
> > shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end
> > reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky
> > updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to
> > discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world'
> > has gone down the tone-down route.
> > [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round-
> > the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk}
>
>
> They are Seahawks, and the unit is HS-2 (my alma mater).
>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4142047.stm
>
Thanks for the URL and the identification of the unit/aircraft.
At the time I posted my input, SkyNews was reporting the
removal of the B373 off the runway and only showing a
line of ????Hawks from their rear aspect. - The impression
given by the reporter was that these were USMC aircraft.

> That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the
> helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is
> a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN
> authorized to have it painted on their aircraft.
>

Interestingly, the aircraft depicted in your URL was not _toned down_
its bearing a red-blue-white USAF symbol, the flag is fully chromatic
and the unit badge is, as you say, definitely Golden; yet its got the basic
toned-down grey hull. Does HS-2 march to the sound of its own drum?
Haven't I seen the full-colo(u)r US National flag on the outside of
other USAF aircraft - albeit normally on the tail?

--

Brian

[Michael Wise]

In article >,
"Brian Sharrock" > wrote:

> > >...Certainly some Blackhawks have been
> > > shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end
> > > reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky
> > > updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to
> > > discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world'
> > > has gone down the tone-down route.
> > > [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round-
> > > the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk}
> >
> >
> > They are Seahawks, and the unit is HS-2 (my alma mater).
> >
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4142047.stm
> >
> Thanks for the URL and the identification of the unit/aircraft.
> At the time I posted my input, SkyNews was reporting the
> removal of the B373 off the runway and only showing a
> line of ????Hawks from their rear aspect. - The impression
> given by the reporter was that these were USMC aircraft.
>
> > That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the
> > helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is
> > a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN
> > authorized to have it painted on their aircraft.
> >
>
> Interestingly, the aircraft depicted in your URL was not _toned down_
> its bearing a red-blue-white USAF symbol, the flag is fully chromatic
> and the unit badge is, as you say, definitely Golden; yet its got the basic
> toned-down grey hull.
> Does HS-2 march to the sound of its own drum?
> Haven't I seen the full-colo(u)r US National flag on the outside of
> other USAF aircraft - albeit normally on the tail?

It's not a USAF helo or a USAF symbol; it's a USN helo with a US flag.

I'm not sure of the history of how it came to be that HS-2 is the only
USN squadron allowed to have the US flag on the sides of it's
aircraft...but we were always proud of it.

Back to the discussion. When I joined HS-2 in early 1984, we flew
SH-3H's which were all white with chromatic markings. It wasn't until
late 1986/early 1987 that the Navy (or at least our air wing, CVW-9)
started painting its aircraft tactical gray. After that, all our
markings (including US flag and squadron logo) were shades of gray.

I got out of HS-2 at the end of '87, to be a reserve in the now-defunct
augmentation squadron, HS-0246. We flew the HS-10's (West Coast HS RAG)
aircraft, so when they transitioned to the SH-60F around 1989, so did
we. HS-2 was the first fleet HS squadron to get the SH-60F in 1990 or
1991. At that time, all their SH-60F's were tactical gray only (just
like their SH-3H's before them).

My guess is that since maritime camouflage s not an issue and they are
on a world stage (I've seen interviews and video/still images of several
HS-2 squadron members in the last week) that they want or were directed
to colorize the flag and squadron logo.

Here's another bit of HS-2 trivia: their call sign is "Hurricane
Hunter." They got it during the 70's when they assisted in relief
efforts for another natural disaster (hurricane) in the U.S.


--Mike


--Mike

[Jim Carriere]

Michael Wise wrote:
> My guess is that since maritime camouflage s not an issue and they are
> on a world stage (I've seen interviews and video/still images of several
> HS-2 squadron members in the last week) that they want or were directed
> to colorize the flag and squadron logo.

Michael, all of the USN HSL squadrons have one aircraft with at least
some color paint (some are more artistic than others), all the other
aircraft are all gray. My guess is the HS squadrons (and probably
all the helo squadrons) do the same thing.

And speaking of the airlift effort, I saw an SH-60B in one of the
pictures. Those have almost zero cargo capability- to give you an
idea, removing the sono launcher pretty much doubles the useful
internal cargo room. I guess any added capability in the overall
effort is a good thing though.

[Yofuri]

Brian Sharrock wrote:
<snip>


>
>>That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the
>>helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is
>>a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN
>>authorized to have it painted on their aircraft.
>>
>
>
> Interestingly, the aircraft depicted in your URL was not _toned down_
> its bearing a red-blue-white USAF symbol, the flag is fully chromatic
> and the unit badge is, as you say, definitely Golden; yet its got the basic
> toned-down grey hull. Does HS-2 march to the sound of its own drum?
> Haven't I seen the full-colo(u)r US National flag on the outside of
> other USAF aircraft - albeit normally on the tail?
>

Way after my watch, but:

"In 1970, HS-2 was the first helicopter squadron to travel across the
United States for deployment on a ship from the other coast. In that
year, the squadron participated in operations with U.S. Forces
responding to the Jordanian Crisis. HS-2 was directed to prepare to go
into Amman, Jordan and also provide Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) for
the Battle Group. It was during the same year that the American flag was
painted on the helicopters. The flag was painted on the aircraft
overnight so the helicopter could be distinguished from the Israeli
H-3’s, which might also be operating in the combat zone. To commemorate
the event, the Chief of Naval Operations authorized the American flag to
become a permanent part of HS-2’s paint scheme. As a result of its
superior performance during that period, the squadron was awarded the
Navy Unit Commendation."

From: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/hs-2.htm

Rick Yount
HS-2
1958-1960

[Michael Wise]

In article >,
Jim Carriere > wrote:


> > My guess is that since maritime camouflage s not an issue and they are
> > on a world stage (I've seen interviews and video/still images of several
> > HS-2 squadron members in the last week) that they want or were directed
> > to colorize the flag and squadron logo.
>
> Michael, all of the USN HSL squadrons have one aircraft with at least
> some color paint (some are more artistic than others), all the other
> aircraft are all gray. My guess is the HS squadrons (and probably
> all the helo squadrons) do the same thing.

Makes sense. I can't recall whether or not we were doing that in HS-2 in
the 80's.


> And speaking of the airlift effort, I saw an SH-60B in one of the
> pictures. Those have almost zero cargo capability- to give you an
> idea, removing the sono launcher pretty much doubles the useful
> internal cargo room. I guess any added capability in the overall
> effort is a good thing though.

One thing's for sure; there's going to be a lot of crews on the fast
track to their Sikorsky 1000, 2000, etc. hours pins.

--Mike

[Guy Alcala]

Michael Wise wrote:

> In article >,
> Jim Carriere > wrote:
>
> > > My guess is that since maritime camouflage s not an issue and they are
> > > on a world stage (I've seen interviews and video/still images of several
> > > HS-2 squadron members in the last week) that they want or were directed
> > > to colorize the flag and squadron logo.
> >
> > Michael, all of the USN HSL squadrons have one aircraft with at least
> > some color paint (some are more artistic than others), all the other
> > aircraft are all gray. My guess is the HS squadrons (and probably
> > all the helo squadrons) do the same thing.
>
> Makes sense. I can't recall whether or not we were doing that in HS-2 in
> the 80's.
>
>
> > And speaking of the airlift effort, I saw an SH-60B in one of the
> > pictures. Those have almost zero cargo capability- to give you an
> > idea, removing the sono launcher pretty much doubles the useful
> > internal cargo room. I guess any added capability in the overall
> > effort is a good thing though.
>
> One thing's for sure; there's going to be a lot of crews on the fast
> track to their Sikorsky 1000, 2000, etc. hours pins.

I'd assume they must have pulled the sonar transducers/winches and probably most
oftheconsoles during the transit. I have seen what appeared to be a few MH-60s
(at least, they were gray H-60s with Blackhawk landing gear). Which reminds me,
the Commander of PACOM (what used to be called CINCPAC) said in a briefing
yesterday that the LSD Fort McHenry was bringing six more helos from Okinawa
(presumably USM)(, while the Niagara Falls, T-AFS-3, was bringing some more,
presumablyher assigned vertrep helos, from Guam. also, itwas stated that the
catamaran WestPac Express had been loaded with helos (type unstated) at Okinawa
and was on the way.

Guy

[Brian Sharrock]

"Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Wise wrote:
> > My guess is that since maritime camouflage s not an issue and they are
> > on a world stage (I've seen interviews and video/still images of several
> > HS-2 squadron members in the last week) that they want or were directed
> > to colorize the flag and squadron logo.
>
> Michael, all of the USN HSL squadrons have one aircraft with at least
> some color paint (some are more artistic than others), all the other
> aircraft are all gray. My guess is the HS squadrons (and probably
> all the helo squadrons) do the same thing.
>
Interesting, ... would the 'one aircraft with at least some color paint'
be the OC's barge (reading this is smn)?

--

Brian

[D]

----------
In article >, Jim Carriere
> wrote:

> Michael, all of the USN HSL squadrons have one aircraft with at least
> some color paint (some are more artistic than others), all the other

I think that the Navy has missed a small opportunity here. Before they
arrived, they should have painted a bright American flag on the side of
every helo so that the people knew where the relief was coming from.




D

[Jack Linthicum]

There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
available.

[Andrew Chaplin]

Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
> years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
> available.

RTFLs are part of every CS medium battery, sapper field squadrons have
them too, and they are found in the supply chain at bulk breaking
points and the like.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Guy Alcala]

Jack Linthicum wrote:

> There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
> years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
> available.

That's what the USMC TRAMs are.

Guy

[Arved Sandstrom]

"Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
. ..
> Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> > There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
> > years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
> > available.
>
> That's what the USMC TRAMs are.

I have been duly informed. I had a brainfart, considering that I've seen
these big forklifts myself...just not recently.

AHS

[Jim McLaughlin]

Brain fart or yet another hangover?

I mean, it ain't hard to miss these suckers, unless you were :

(A) too drunk; or,

(B) like your fellow CanuckistanI, Skelton, a background faker.

Those are the only two possibilities.

Which are you?

-- Jim McLaughlin

Please don't just hit the reply key.
Remove the obvious from the address to reply.

************************************************** *************************
"Arved Sandstrom" > wrote in message
news:5BjDd.53300$dv1.10356@edtnps89...
> "Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Jack Linthicum wrote:
> >
> > > There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
> > > years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
> > > available.
> >
> > That's what the USMC TRAMs are.
>
> I have been duly informed. I had a brainfart, considering that I've seen
> these big forklifts myself...just not recently.
>
> AHS
>
>

[Arved Sandstrom]

"Jim McLaughlin" > wrote in message
...
> Brain fart or yet another hangover?
>
> I mean, it ain't hard to miss these suckers, unless you were :
>
> (A) too drunk; or,
>
> (B) like your fellow CanuckistanI, Skelton, a background faker.
>
> Those are the only two possibilities.
>
> Which are you?

OK, Perfect Man, I'll make you happy. I just got out of the pen after doing
hard time, and am back to doing Dilaudids and crack cocaine, beating up my
girlfriend and her kids, and juggling my schedule - how to sandwich the
convenience store robberies in between the parole officer visits.

Seriously, you anal berk, why don't you take a break from personal attacks?
I don't need them - not on newsgroups and not to my email. I don't give a
flying f**k whether you like me or not, because I don't intend to have you
over as a houseguest any time soon, but it's getting somewhat tiresome to be
continually subjected to insults. I don't take kindly to having my sobriety
questioned, so I suggest you don't visit Nova Scotia, ever, and let me know
where you're staying. And, yes, by this point in time you have seriously
tried my patience, so that's a threat - go ahead and call the local cops or
RCMP. For the Halifax Detachment OIC of the latter, just call
1-902-490-6883. For the police, 1-902-490-5020 is a good start.

You missed the third possibility, idiot. One is maybe not a combat engineer
and the only forklifts one maybe practically ever saw were the smaller ones
that can't negotiate rough ground. I recall the latter because we used them
during VERTREP's. I wasn't associated with loading cargo, I don't know how
many heavy forklifts got put onto amphibs, I didn't go into vehicle storage
spaces...I was familiar with with my berthing space, the head, the mess, the
ship's store, the welldeck, the flight deck, and the uppermost topside, and
how to get from one to the other. Well, some operational spaces, too, like
the SACC, and where the officers and chiefs lived. I don't remember seeing
heavy forklifts on any ship I was on - is the point becoming clear? Were
some present - possibly. I sure as hell wouldn't have seen them while
floating ashore on a landing craft or hovercraft or LCVP, nor would I have
seen them while being with an artillery battery, nor would I have seen them
while being with an infantry unit.

When I said brainfart, I meant that I know that big forklifts exist, because
I've seen them in civilian life, and it's a reasonable assumption that the
military has them too. I just don't recall seeing them aboard ship. Plain
enough? Doesn't mean they weren't there.

Start attacking arguments and not attacking people. If you can get *my*
goat, you're a piece of work. I hope to God you're not married with
kids...they must suffer.

AHS

[Andrew Chaplin]

Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>
> <snip> nor would I have
> seen them while being with an artillery battery, <snip>

You might have if you hadn't switched horses. Canadian M109 batteries
have had two RTFLs each since around 1990.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Peter Skelton]

Hey, Jimk

1) AHS is a recovering alcoholic. You, apparently, are a aspiring
asshole.

2) There's a gentleman around here who accuses people of his own
faults. There are folks around who buy into hs distortions. It's
an easy test for idiocy. You made it, congratulations.

Peter

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 20:17:54 -0800, "Jim McLaughlin"
> wrote:

> Brain fart or yet another hangover?
>
> I mean, it ain't hard to miss these suckers, unless you were :
>
> (A) too drunk; or,
>
> (B) like your fellow CanuckistanI, Skelton, a background faker.
>
> Those are the only two possibilities.
>
> Which are you?
>
> -- Jim McLaughlin
>
>Please don't just hit the reply key.
>Remove the obvious from the address to reply.
>
>************************************************** *************************
>"Arved Sandstrom" > wrote in message
>news:5BjDd.53300$dv1.10356@edtnps89...
>> "Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> > Jack Linthicum wrote:
>> >
>> > > There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
>> > > years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
>> > > available.
>> >
>> > That's what the USMC TRAMs are.
>>
>> I have been duly informed. I had a brainfart, considering that I've seen
>> these big forklifts myself...just not recently.
>>
>> AHS
>>
>>
>

[Fred J. McCall]

"Arved Sandstrom" > wrote:

:"Jim McLaughlin" > wrote in message
...

:I hope to God you're not married with
:kids...they must suffer.

More importantly, do we REALLY want this one reproducing?

[Arved Sandstrom]

"Andrew Chaplin" > wrote in message
...
> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> >
> > <snip> nor would I have
> > seen them while being with an artillery battery, <snip>
>
> You might have if you hadn't switched horses. Canadian M109 batteries
> have had two RTFLs each since around 1990.

What are they used for, specifically? I'd assume ammo distribution, but I
could be wrong. We weren't quite that fortunate in 10th Marines - *we* were
the rough terrain forklifts. One tends to become rather athletic on an M198
gun section, at least until that point in time where you wreck a knee or
throw out your lower back.

AHS

[Andrew Chaplin]

Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>
> What are they used for, specifically? I'd assume ammo distribution, but I
> could be wrong. We weren't quite that fortunate in 10th Marines - *we* were
> the rough terrain forklifts. One tends to become rather athletic on an M198
> gun section, at least until that point in time where you wreck a knee or
> throw out your lower back.

Ammo handling. We intended to shoot *lots* of bullets in short periods
and if you were deployed close to a dump IAW the CFSP then you could
likely not move ammo in the quantities you needed without an RTFL
unless you didn't care about things like the track plan.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Tank Fixer]

In article om>,
on 6 Jan 2005 10:22:53 -0800,
Jack Linthicum attempted to say .....

> There are specialty "rough terrain" forklifts, we used them multiple
> years ago on pipelines and I would assume the product is still
> available.

You want 4K 6K or 10K ?

The Army has all three


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Jack Linthicum]

Tank Fixer Jan 8, 6:12 pm

We did the high end, 30 inch 40 foot thick wall iron pipe weighs out at
200 pounds a foot. Probably the 6K now, ie a mid size vehicle.