Humorous Naval Air Flight Experiences

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

For what it's worth...

At the Naval Academy in the early 1950s we got fam flights in N3N
floatplanes. It was great fun. The engine flywheel had to be hand cranked to
provide the energy to turn over the engine to get it started. The plane then
pushed off the Severn River bank by white hat crewmen. We nuggets sat in the
front cockpit while the pilot (a naval aviator from the USNA faculty) was in
the back. We got to make climbs, descents, turns etc. until we finally got
to try our hand at landing on water (more difficult than land).

The day that really sticks in my memory was when we were returning from the
Chesapeake Bay and the prop suddenly flew off (later learned it was a fairly
common event with those old N3Ns). The pilot just stopcocked the throttle
and assumed glide speed. He had to maneuver between the yawl sailboats on
the river before setting us down. Then we sat for an hour until all the
other "healthy" N3Ns were hauled out of the water before a power launch
could come out to tow us to the ramp. I thought it was a lot more fun than
ever being chief engineer in a destroyer. I was convinced that Naval Air was
the way to go at graduation.

Don't know what they do for fam fights at Mother Bancroft today.

WDA
USNA '53

end

[Greasy Rider]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:44:36 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> postulated :
>For what it's worth...

(snipped)

It was a dark and stormy night aboard the Intrepid in the fall of
1957. A twenty year old Aviation Electronics Tech (AT3) was tasked
with replacing the UHF radio (ARC-27) in FJ-3M number 204 tied down on
the flight deck. The radio set was mounted in the nose and the top
cover of the nose was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear while
the front had two tangs that slipped into sockets forward. This
unnamed AT3 popped the fasteners and the metal cover became airborne
and was gone in the wind.

Some soul was taking a smoke break on the fan tail and saw a dark
shadow hit in the water. Man Over Board was quickly sounded and CVA-11
slowly started circling with her two DDE plane guards. Search lights
lit up the North Atlantic and there was much mustering of all hands
and naturally 15 or 20 are missing in a crew of maybe 3,500.

The AT3 knew that the cover would be found and dusted for finger
prints. The AT3 knew that the Navy would charge him for all fuel oil
and expenses encountered. The AT3 slipped quietly into the cat walk
and went to muster. The AT3 reported to his Shop Chief the next
morning that he noticed the nose cover of 204 was missing.

Has the statute of limitations run out from 1957?

[Dave in San diego]

Greasy Rider > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:44:36 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > postulated :
>>For what it's worth...
>
> (snipped)
>
> It was a dark and stormy night aboard the Intrepid in the fall of
> 1957. A twenty year old Aviation Electronics Tech (AT3) was tasked
> with replacing the UHF radio (ARC-27) in FJ-3M number 204 tied down on
> the flight deck.

[remainder redacted]

You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27 was
my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21 TACAN
ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult location
in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors around into
the 80s?

Dave in San Diego
O-level Tweet ('70 - '75)

[vincent p. norris]

>.....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......

As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))

vince norris (who, in more than six years as a Naval Aviator, never
got to make a single watering.)

[Greasy Rider]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:34:34 GMT, Dave in San diego
> postulated :

>You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27 was
>my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21 TACAN
>ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult location
>in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors around into
>the 80s?

I worked on FJ-3M, F9F, F11F, AD-6, and A4D.
The A4D was the worst for me with that damned "biscuit" which housed
it all. The ARC-27 was my bread and butter gear. Easy to diagnose
problems. Using the bicycle pump always attracted the attention of the
other shops. The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.

[Greasy Rider]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:18:41 -0500, vincent p. norris >
postulated :
>>.....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......
>
>As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
>to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
>land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))
>
>vince norris (who, in more than six years as a Naval Aviator, never
>got to make a single watering.)

Would "surfacing" be more appropriate? :)

[Mike Kanze]

And I guess that means one does "splash and dashes" in a seadrome, as one
does "touch and goes" ashore? <g>

--
Mike Kanze

"Boy, I feel safer now that [Martha Stewart's] behind bars. O.J. & Kobe are
walking around free, but they take the ONE woman in America willing to cook
and clean and work in the yard and haul her ass to jail."

- Tim Allen



"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >.....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......
>
> As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
> to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
> land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))
>
> vince norris (who, in more than six years as a Naval Aviator, never
> got to make a single watering.)

[Dave Kearton]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message

|| .....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......
|
| As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
| to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
| land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))



I tried that once out of the door of a moving bus, talk about getting your
own back.



|
| vince norris (who, in more than six years as a Naval Aviator, never
| got to make a single watering.)



I always thought the 'correct' term was alighting, that is if you do it
correctly.



--

Cheers


Dave Kearton

[Paul Michael Brown]

> The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
> transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
> aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.

This cries out for further explanation. From context, I assume the idea
was to prevent the bad guys from reverse engineering the IFF and figuring
out a method to interrogate it. But was the self destruct mechanism
*really* a live .45 calibre shell?

[Dave in San diego]

Greasy Rider > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:34:34 GMT, Dave in San diego
> > postulated :
>
>>You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27
>>was my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21
>>TACAN ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult
>>location in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors
>>around into the 80s?
>
> I worked on FJ-3M, F9F, F11F, AD-6, and A4D.
> The A4D was the worst for me with that damned "biscuit" which housed
> it all. The ARC-27 was my bread and butter gear. Easy to diagnose
> problems. Using the bicycle pump always attracted the attention of the
> other shops. The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
> transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
> aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.

Oh, the APX-6 was actually one of the easiest pieces I got to work with.
I saw it in "A" School, and briefly in the fleet before they transitioned
to the APX-72. The 72 was another item requiring the bicycle pump.

Speaking of that, when I was in Brunswick, we were having problems with
the 27s in some visiting EA-3s. Would work OK on the ground, and on
climb-out but would fail at altitude. When we went to AIMD and asked what
pressure they were pumped up to, the techs replied, "We never pump them
up, Stoofs don't go that high." Needless to say, after the **** flowed
downhill, ALL gear requiring pressurization was properly serviced from
then on.

Dave in San Diego

[Leanne]

> The A4D was the worst for me with that damned "biscuit" which
housed
> it all. The ARC-27 was my bread and butter gear. Easy to
diagnose
> problems. Using the bicycle pump always attracted the
attention of the
> other shops. The only gear I never really understood was the
APX-6
> transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45
shell
> aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.

Ah ha, the old ASQ-17. It was used on the A4D, F-8U, and believe
the F-11.

Leanne

[Dave in San diego]

(Paul Michael Brown) wrote in
:

>> The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
>> transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
>> aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.
>
> This cries out for further explanation. From context, I assume the
> idea was to prevent the bad guys from reverse engineering the IFF and
> figuring out a method to interrogate it. But was the self destruct
> mechanism *really* a live .45 calibre shell?

I don't think so, but there was a CAD in each of the three cavities to
destroy them, The idea was to keep the bad guys from determining the
operating frequency, which, at that time, was changed every day. Later
on, after an intact unit was compromised, the SIF coder was added to the
system and the frequencies were fixed at 1030 and 1090 MHz. Mode 4 came
much later.

[Bob McKellar]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote in
message ...
>
> "vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
>
> || .....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......
> |
> | As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
> | to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
> | land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))
>
>
>
> I tried that once out of the door of a moving bus, talk about getting
> your
> own back.
>

My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the cockpit
and peeing over the side of his plane.

Try that in an F-18!

Bob McKellar

[Dave Kearton]

"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message


| My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the
| cockpit and peeing over the side of his plane.
|
| Try that in an F-18!
|
| Bob McKellar



#711 is an impressive number, I'm only guessing that would be mid to late
'30s


Did he explain the leather helmet that was only mouldy on one side ?





--

Cheers


Dave Kearton

[Jim Carriere]

Dave Kearton wrote:
> I always thought the 'correct' term was alighting, that is if you do it
> correctly.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that, but "alighting" sounds so... cold and
clinical.

[Jim Carriere]

Some funny things happen in the training commands, sometimes due to
student stress (helmet fires) and sometimes for miscellaneous
reasons. I never did anything extraordinary (good or bad) myself,
but I did know some interesting people.

One guy took the wrong aircraft on his solo. Got his assignment from
the duty, went to maintenance to review the records, but somehow
ended up preflighting and strapping into the wrong bird. The
squadron called him up on radio (by his last name) when he was in the
practice area and said "Look out on your wing..." (the tail number is
also on the wing in HUGE letters) I was jealous because he got to do
the solo over again.

Another guy had already got kicked out of the program during API
(ground school). Couldn't get past the navigation test, which
emphasized, among other things, fuel management. Oddly enough he
already had a private ticket. One weekend he rented a plane and
crashed it after running out of gas. Gotta admit the writing was on
the wall for that one... it's funny because no one was hurt. The
plane was totalled but no post crash fire.

There was a story going around about an international student
(English not his mother tongue) who was in the home field break on a
solo and mixed up runway 23 and 32 (the field had both).

Actually, one of the dumbest things I did was when a primary
instructor asked me a serious question, what did I want to fly? I
confidently (cockily?) said I wanted dirigibles, because then I'd
have the half-wing pin. I wish I knew what the hell I was thinking
when I said that.

[Nice Guy]

ARC-1 in rear of AF.

"Dave in San diego" > wrote in message
. ..
> Greasy Rider > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:44:36 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > > postulated :
> >>For what it's worth...
> >
> > (snipped)
> >
> > It was a dark and stormy night aboard the Intrepid in the fall of
> > 1957. A twenty year old Aviation Electronics Tech (AT3) was tasked
> > with replacing the UHF radio (ARC-27) in FJ-3M number 204 tied down on
> > the flight deck.
>
> [remainder redacted]
>
> You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27 was
> my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21 TACAN
> ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult location
> in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors around into
> the 80s?
>
> Dave in San Diego
> O-level Tweet ('70 - '75)
>

[Nice Guy]

"STOOFs" were the S2Fs.

"Dave in San diego" > wrote in message
. ..
> Greasy Rider > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:34:34 GMT, Dave in San diego
> > > postulated :
> >
> >>You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27
> >>was my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21
> >>TACAN ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult
> >>location in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors
> >>around into the 80s?
> >
> > I worked on FJ-3M, F9F, F11F, AD-6, and A4D.
> > The A4D was the worst for me with that damned "biscuit" which housed
> > it all. The ARC-27 was my bread and butter gear. Easy to diagnose
> > problems. Using the bicycle pump always attracted the attention of the
> > other shops. The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
> > transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
> > aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.
>
> Oh, the APX-6 was actually one of the easiest pieces I got to work with.
> I saw it in "A" School, and briefly in the fleet before they transitioned
> to the APX-72. The 72 was another item requiring the bicycle pump.
>
> Speaking of that, when I was in Brunswick, we were having problems with
> the 27s in some visiting EA-3s. Would work OK on the ground, and on
> climb-out but would fail at altitude. When we went to AIMD and asked what
> pressure they were pumped up to, the techs replied, "We never pump them
> up, Stoofs don't go that high." Needless to say, after the **** flowed
> downhill, ALL gear requiring pressurization was properly serviced from
> then on.
>
> Dave in San Diego

[Nice Guy]

Try peeing in the rear seat of an AF while wearing a "poopy" suit.

"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Kearton" > wrote in
> message ...
> >
> > "vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
> >
> > || .....we finally got to try our hand at landing on water......
> > |
> > | As I keep pointing out to a friend who flew P5Ms, (but he doesn't seem
> > | to understand the English language), you can't "land" on water. You
> > | land on land, and "water" on water. (:-))
> >
> >
> >
> > I tried that once out of the door of a moving bus, talk about getting
> > your
> > own back.
> >
>
> My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the
cockpit
> and peeing over the side of his plane.
>
> Try that in an F-18!
>
> Bob McKellar
>
>

[Jim]

Repaired many an ARC-27 @ Whiting Field in the '70s.
Tough radio.
Jim

[Greasy Rider]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:19:46 -0500, "Leanne" >
postulated :

>Ah ha, the old ASQ-17. It was used on the A4D, F-8U, and believe
>the F-11.

I hated the damned thing so much I forgot the designation but then
it's been almost 50 years and I'm entitled!

[Leanne]

> My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up
in the cockpit
> and peeing over the side of his plane.


That brings to mind of an old gentleman that I met in
Mississippi many years ago. We were discussing radar and
electronics careers and he said back in his day, he was the
radar. He stood up in the nose cockpit of the seaplane and
scanned with binoculars. I think he said that he was flying out
of Kaneohe, Hawaii in about 1924.

Leanne

[nafod40]

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
> For what it's worth...
>
> At the Naval Academy in the early 1950s we got fam flights in N3N
> floatplanes. It was great fun. The engine flywheel had to be hand cranked to
> provide the energy to turn over the engine to get it started. The plane then
> pushed off the Severn River bank by white hat crewmen.

My dad was one of this white hats, an E1 but a future chief aviation
storekeeper. They had flying chiefs driving them things too. He still
loves to tell stories about middies heading back out to the plane with a
bucket and mop for a post-flight barf removal session.

[Leadfoot]

> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear

Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.

[Greasy Rider]

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:02:34 -0700, "Leadfoot" >
postulated :
>
>> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear
>
>Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.
>
After I sent the message I suddenly remembered . Been way too long.
Thanks.

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

SO YOU'RE THE ONE!!!!

(ha,ha,ha)

WDA

end

"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:44:36 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > postulated :
>>For what it's worth...
>
> (snipped)
>
> It was a dark and stormy night aboard the Intrepid in the fall of
> 1957. A twenty year old Aviation Electronics Tech (AT3) was tasked
> with replacing the UHF radio (ARC-27) in FJ-3M number 204 tied down on
> the flight deck. The radio set was mounted in the nose and the top
> cover of the nose was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear while
> the front had two tangs that slipped into sockets forward. This
> unnamed AT3 popped the fasteners and the metal cover became airborne
> and was gone in the wind.
>
> Some soul was taking a smoke break on the fan tail and saw a dark
> shadow hit in the water. Man Over Board was quickly sounded and CVA-11
> slowly started circling with her two DDE plane guards. Search lights
> lit up the North Atlantic and there was much mustering of all hands
> and naturally 15 or 20 are missing in a crew of maybe 3,500.
>
> The AT3 knew that the cover would be found and dusted for finger
> prints. The AT3 knew that the Navy would charge him for all fuel oil
> and expenses encountered. The AT3 slipped quietly into the cat walk
> and went to muster. The AT3 reported to his Shop Chief the next
> morning that he noticed the nose cover of 204 was missing.
>
> Has the statute of limitations run out from 1957?
>
>
>

[Leadfoot]

"Dave in San diego" > wrote in message
. ..
> Greasy Rider > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:44:36 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
>> > postulated :
>>>For what it's worth...
>>
>> (snipped)
>>
>> It was a dark and stormy night aboard the Intrepid in the fall of
>> 1957. A twenty year old Aviation Electronics Tech (AT3) was tasked
>> with replacing the UHF radio (ARC-27) in FJ-3M number 204 tied down on
>> the flight deck.
>
> [remainder redacted]
>
> You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27 was
> my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21 TACAN
> ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult location
> in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors around into
> the 80s?

We had the landbased companion the GRC-27 which was the size of a
refrigerator in 1979. Lots of tiny gears to get in sync and loads of fun
bending silver tabs (which acted as capacitors) to tune it. You'd get every
thing right at 375MHZ and then find everything off at 250MHZ. Since it was
being junked they finally decided to let the E-4s and above work on it and
only if it was actually broke.

It did provide one of my more funnier movements in the Air Force. Our NCOIC
who was as well the custodian of all the squadrons radio equipment was a
stickler for every tiny screw being with his equipment and 8 of the cover
screws were missing from a GRC-27. For some reason supply couldn't find a
good part number and eventually our chief of maintenance , a very foxy
female 1st LT, called and I was the lucky guy who answered the phones when
she asked me about the the screws. The team leader for that equipment was
in the office and I put my hand on the mouthpiece aid "Hey Lt Blank is on
the phone and wants to know about 8 screws for a GRC-27? His reply? "hell I
don't need 8 screws from a GRC-27, I'll screw her for free." Which promptly
put the whole shop into uncontrollable laughter including (although not
known at the time) her future E-4 husband. Got to give her credit, she was
a pretty good sport about it when she finally found out what had happenned.

>
> Dave in San Diego
> O-level Tweet ('70 - '75)
>

[Gord Beaman]

"Leadfoot" > wrote:

>
>> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear
>
>Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.
>
Yes, Dzus is correct...god knows I turned a lot of them on
Lancaster engine cowlings 'lo these many long years ago'... :)
(you don't pronounce the "D")
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Gord Beaman]

"Bob McKellar" > wrote:

>
>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the cockpit
>and peeing over the side of his plane.
>
>Try that in an F-18!
>
>Bob McKellar
>

Yeh...I suppose the 'flail' action is somewhat more prohibitive
(and hazardous) in the F-18?...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Gord Beaman]

"Nice Guy" > wrote:

>Try peeing in the rear seat of an AF while wearing a "poopy" suit.
>

I'd guess that the phrase 'in the rear seat' is likely more
descriptive than you had intended?... :)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Gord Beaman]

Jim Carriere > wrote:

>Dave Kearton wrote:
>> I always thought the 'correct' term was alighting, that is if you do it
>> correctly.
>
>Yeah, I was gonna mention that, but "alighting" sounds so... cold and
>clinical.

Yes indeedy...not really in keeping with the usual mental picture
of the dashing, intrepid, steely eyed, big watch equipped,
aviator huh? :)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Dave Kearton]

"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message

| Jim Carriere > wrote:
|
|| Dave Kearton wrote:
||| I always thought the 'correct' term was alighting, that is if you
||| do it correctly.
||
|| Yeah, I was gonna mention that, but "alighting" sounds so... cold and
|| clinical.
|
| Yes indeedy...not really in keeping with the usual mental picture
| of the dashing, intrepid, steely eyed, big watch equipped,
| aviator huh? :)
| --
|
| -Gord.
| (use gordon in email)



That's what I was thinking Gord. It sounds more like a ballet-practice
term and that real men TM would not alight gently into the water surface,
but SLAM into it, splashing everyone at the pier.



--

Cheers


Dave Kearton

[KENG]

Good ole' ARC-27 you could always tell where in the shop the ARC-27
bench was or had been. From all of the holes in the ceiling where the
scribe ended up after forgetting to unkey the transmitter while tuning
the final PA stages capacitor plates. B+ of 1500 volts'll do that to ya.

Greasy Rider wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:34:34 GMT, Dave in San diego
> > postulated :
>
>
>>You had to go and do it - bring up old painful memories. The ARC-27 was
>>my second least favorite piece of tron gear to replace. The ARN-21 TACAN
>>ranked first, primarily because of its generally more difficult location
>>in the a/c. Can you believe they still had those boat anchors around into
>>the 80s?
>
>
> I worked on FJ-3M, F9F, F11F, AD-6, and A4D.
> The A4D was the worst for me with that damned "biscuit" which housed
> it all. The ARC-27 was my bread and butter gear. Easy to diagnose
> problems. Using the bicycle pump always attracted the attention of the
> other shops. The only gear I never really understood was the APX-6
> transponder. I always kept a wary eye on that live round .45 shell
> aimed at the Top Secret cavitron.

[Mike Kanze]

>Yeh...I suppose the 'flail' action is somewhat more prohibitive (and
>hazardous) in the F-18?...

Not to mention the likelihood of some personnel becoming fouled in the hook
or the turkey feathers. <g>

--
Mike Kanze

"Boy, I feel safer now that [Martha Stewart's] behind bars. O.J. & Kobe are
walking around free, but they take the ONE woman in America willing to cook
and clean and work in the yard and haul her ass to jail."

- Tim Allen



"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob McKellar" > wrote:
>
>>
>>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the
>>cockpit
>>and peeing over the side of his plane.
>>
>>Try that in an F-18!
>>
>>Bob McKellar
>>
>
> Yeh...I suppose the 'flail' action is somewhat more prohibitive
> (and hazardous) in the F-18?...
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)

[John Alger]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:55:31 -0500, "Bob McKellar" >
wrote:

>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the cockpit
>and peeing over the side of his plane.

That would also indicate he was designated between 1911 and 1919.
During those years 2834 Naval Aviators were designated. It also means
he likely flew a good variety of very interesting aircraft.

One of my instructors at Embry-Riddle in the early 70's - Carl Brown -
would regale us with tales of conversations with the likes of Loening,
the Wrights, Donald Douglas, and other noteables of early US Aviation
History (the subject of the class). He was a Naval Aviator, flew
F-6F's with VF-27 and participated in the "Marianas Turkey Shoot". We
never could figure out how much (if any) of his tales were BS, but
since he was about 70 at the time, it was not improbable he actually
did everything he said. Colorful character - and very proud of the
fact he still held a 1st Class Medical certificate!


J W Alger USNR(ret) 1310/1325
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B

[Ogden Johnson III]

Gord Beaman > wrote:

>"Leadfoot" > wrote:

>>> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear
>>
>>Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.

>Yes, Dzus is correct...god knows I turned a lot of them on
>Lancaster engine cowlings 'lo these many long years ago'... :)
>(you don't pronounce the "D")

Thanks, Gord, for the pronunciation note. Fortunately, I was
able to spend ~18 years in USMC aviation [and twenty-mumble years
since] without once having to actually /say/ that word. *Typed*
it a lot, but never, once, had to say it.

[Never heard it pronounced, either. Dunno if it was Marine
aviation wide, but everyone on our flight line always just said
something like "undo the frammis panel fasteners, take it off,
and then remove that gubeck Top Rock told us to replace".]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[vincent p. norris]

>Would "surfacing" be more appropriate? :)

Yes, if you're coming from the other direction!

vince norris

[vincent p. norris]

>>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the cockpit
>>and peeing over the side of his plane.
>
>That would also indicate he was designated between 1911 and 1919.
>During those years 2834 Naval Aviators were designated.

I got my wings in February, 1951, and my number is V-1493.

Anyone know how they got from 2834 in 1919 and V-1493 in 1951?

vince norris

[Bob McKellar]

"John Alger" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:55:31 -0500, "Bob McKellar" >
> wrote:
>
>>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the
>>cockpit
>>and peeing over the side of his plane.
>
> That would also indicate he was designated between 1911 and 1919.
> During those years 2834 Naval Aviators were designated. It also means
> he likely flew a good variety of very interesting aircraft.
>
July 8, 1918

I have his book with brief bios of the first 2000 Naval Aviators.

Coincidentally, many of these guys seem to have been named after navy
airfields.

Bob

[Thomas Schoene]

vincent p. norris wrote:
>>> My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in
>>> the cockpit and peeing over the side of his plane.
>>
>> That would also indicate he was designated between 1911 and 1919.
>> During those years 2834 Naval Aviators were designated.
>
> I got my wings in February, 1951, and my number is V-1493.
>
> Anyone know how they got from 2834 in 1919 and V-1493 in 1951?


The system changed (at least) twice in between. In 1942, they started
issueing letter-number combos based on where they took their training. Then
in 1949, they switched it so that they gave numbers based on the command in
charge fo the training course. The V-series numbers started then.

http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-1910/APP01.PDF

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

[Tex Houston]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
>
>>>My grandfather, Naval Aviator #711, told me about standing up in the
>>>cockpit
>>>and peeing over the side of his plane.
>>
>>That would also indicate he was designated between 1911 and 1919.
>>During those years 2834 Naval Aviators were designated.
>
> I got my wings in February, 1951, and my number is V-1493.
>
> Anyone know how they got from 2834 in 1919 and V-1493 in 1951?
>
> vince norris

The numbering system has had changes. See http://www.history.navy.mil/ ,
click on Naval Aviation History and click on

The History of Naval Aviator and Naval Aviation Pilot Designations and
Numbers, The Training of Naval Aviators and the Number Trained (Designated)

Tex Houston

[Gord Beaman]

Ogden Johnson III > wrote:

>Gord Beaman > wrote:
>
>>"Leadfoot" > wrote:
>
>>>> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear
>>>
>>>Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.
>
>>Yes, Dzus is correct...god knows I turned a lot of them on
>>Lancaster engine cowlings 'lo these many long years ago'... :)
>>(you don't pronounce the "D")
>
>Thanks, Gord, for the pronunciation note. Fortunately, I was
>able to spend ~18 years in USMC aviation [and twenty-mumble years
>since] without once having to actually /say/ that word. *Typed*
>it a lot, but never, once, had to say it.
>
>[Never heard it pronounced, either. Dunno if it was Marine
>aviation wide, but everyone on our flight line always just said
>something like "undo the frammis panel fasteners, take it off,
>and then remove that gubeck Top Rock told us to replace".]

Yes...it's pronounced like the God 'Zeus' (or like I imagine it's
spelled anyway...)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Gord Beaman]

"Dave Kearton" >
wrote:

>"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message

>| Jim Carriere > wrote:
>|
>|| Dave Kearton wrote:
>||| I always thought the 'correct' term was alighting, that is if you
>||| do it correctly.
>||
>|| Yeah, I was gonna mention that, but "alighting" sounds so... cold and
>|| clinical.
>|
>| Yes indeedy...not really in keeping with the usual mental picture
>| of the dashing, intrepid, steely eyed, big watch equipped,
>| aviator huh? :)
>| --
>|
>| -Gord.
>| (use gordon in email)
>
>
>
>That's what I was thinking Gord. It sounds more like a ballet-practice
>term and that real men TM would not alight gently into the water surface,
>but SLAM into it, splashing everyone at the pier.

Hell no...Real Men wouldn't be caught dead tippy-toeing down and
alighting gently. The wrist must be very flexible to allow that
action...and they cannot wear a big watch, it's weight would damp
that fluttery hold on the tip of the stick.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Ogden Johnson III]

Gord Beaman > wrote:

>Ogden Johnson III > wrote:

>>Gord Beaman > wrote:

>>>"Leadfoot" > wrote:

>>>>> was held by Tzus (sp?) fasteners at the rear

>>>>Its Dzus, at least thats the way it was spelled on the last blueprint I saw.

>>>Yes, Dzus is correct...god knows I turned a lot of them on
>>>Lancaster engine cowlings 'lo these many long years ago'... :)
>>>(you don't pronounce the "D")

>>Thanks, Gord, for the pronunciation note. Fortunately, I was
>>able to spend ~18 years in USMC aviation [and twenty-mumble years
>>since] without once having to actually /say/ that word. *Typed*
>>it a lot, but never, once, had to say it.
>>
>>[Never heard it pronounced, either. Dunno if it was Marine
>>aviation wide, but everyone on our flight line always just said
>>something like "undo the frammis panel fasteners, take it off,
>>and then remove that gubeck Top Rock told us to replace".]

>Yes...it's pronounced like the God 'Zeus' (or like I imagine it's
>spelled anyway...)

Late thought. Mebbe it's because Marine airedales tend to be
Christians and not Heathens. i.e., *Zeus* fasteners might be
out, but we gave the helos' Jesus nuts their props. ;->
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Leadfoot]

> Late thought. Mebbe it's because Marine airedales tend to be
> Christians and not Heathens.

Devildogs Christians?


i.e., *Zeus* fasteners might be
> out, but we gave the helos' Jesus nuts their props. ;->
> --
> OJ III
> [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[vincent p. norris]

Thanks, Tom and Tex, for those informative sites.

vince norris

[Jim]

YUP! Had that happen many times. every once in a while - one of them would
loosen fall onto the bench.

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Leadfoot" > wrote:

>> Late thought. Mebbe it's because Marine airedales tend to be
>> Christians and not Heathens.

>Devildogs Christians?

[Pssssst Leadfoot ...
You didn't get this from me, since its a closely held,
Jarhead-only thing, but the grunts have always been leery of
airedales calling themselves Devil Dogs. {Some of them even
question us calling ourselves Marines.}]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[vincent p. norris]

>[Pssssst Leadfoot ...
>You didn't get this from me, since its a closely held,
>Jarhead-only thing, but the grunts have always been leery of
>airedales calling themselves Devil Dogs. {Some of them even
>question us calling ourselves Marines.}]

Reminds me that when I spent a year as a Forward Air Controller with a
battalion of the 5th Marines, we "hit the beach" at Vieques, so
overwhelming the enemy that they disappeared without a trace!

We lived in those pyramidal (sp?) tents for a couple of months, and to
raise our standard of living, we two airdales and one naval gunfire
officer scrounged some pallets and laid a floor in our tent, to stay
out of the mud.

One day the battalion S-3 came by, looked in our tent with obvious
disgust, blended with contempt, and said, "You airdales! You always
want to be COMFORTABLE!"

vince norris

[Pechs1]

<< Mebbe it's because Marine airedales tend to be
> Christians and not Heathens. >><BR><BR>

Only when they have to operate on the 'boat' at night.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Pechs1]

gord-<< Try peeing in the rear seat of an AF while wearing a "poopy" suit.
> >><BR><BR>

Knew a guy that took a dump in his helmet bag, in the rear seat of an F-4,
wearing a poopy suit. Unstrapped, took it off , did his thing, redressed.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

[Gord Beaman]

(Pechs1) wrote:

>gord-<< Try peeing in the rear seat of an AF while wearing a "poopy" suit.
>> >><BR><BR>
>
>Knew a guy that took a dump in his helmet bag, in the rear seat of an F-4,
>wearing a poopy suit. Unstrapped, took it off , did his thing, redressed.
>P. C. Chisholm
>CDR, USN(ret.)
>Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Saw a desperately air-sick paratrooper honk in his helmet then
absolutely calmly put it on and strapped the chin-strap...you
DON'T wanna meet this tough MF in a dark alley when he's PO at
you...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[NimBill]

>From: (Pechs1)
>Newsgroups:

>Knew a guy that took a dump in his helmet bag, in the rear seat of an
>F-4,wearing a poopy suit. Unstrapped, took it off , did his thing,
>redressed.P. C. ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey,
>Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>

I was riding a training mission as a potential Radar Operater on an S-2E when
the guy training me ate his lunch then crapped in his lunch box and dropped it
through the PDC chute on a Vietnamese fishing boat.

We had relief tubes but not crappers. Needless to say I did not learn much
about operating the APS-38 that mission. Was still a learning experience in
1967.

[Dave Kearton]

"NimBill" > wrote in message

|| From: (Pechs1)
|| Newsgroups:
|
|| Knew a guy that took a dump in his helmet bag, in the rear seat of an
|| F-4,wearing a poopy suit. Unstrapped, took it off , did his thing,
|| redressed.P. C. ChisholmCDR, USN(ret.)Old Phart Phormer Phantom,
|| Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
||
|
| I was riding a training mission as a potential Radar Operater on an
| S-2E when the guy training me ate his lunch then crapped in his lunch
| box and dropped it through the PDC chute on a Vietnamese fishing boat.
|
| We had relief tubes but not crappers. Needless to say I did not learn
| much about operating the APS-38 that mission. Was still a learning
| experience in 1967.



Well I know that I won't get to sleep tonight ....


In the same vein, my cav squadron was on a two week exercise at a place
called Cultana in South Australia's mid-north.


Peak of winter and for the first time we were issued quilted and hooded tank
over-suits.


Just as the last light of the day was draining away in the west, I saw the
troop corporal from another M-113 sort of half-run and half-walk, shovel in
hand to a low scrubby area about 50m from my track.


Making a short story shorter, those of you who jumped ahead are right.
Poor ******* unzipped his oversuit, then unzipped and laid out his tank
suit - as we always do, then took a furtive dump in his oversuit's hood.

It wouldn't have been so bad - if he'd notcied the extra load before he
zipped up again.



If you want to try this at home, you'll get some in your hair, most down
your back and you sleep outside until the shower platoon arrives at the end
of the week.


--

Cheers


Dave Kearton

[Gord Beaman]

No Spam > wrote:

>Now, tell me, how in the &^^$^%$()* did the front seat driver resisit
>the urge to yank & bank with that going on in the back?!
>

I can tell you...it's because "What goes around comes
around"...how's that?... :)
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Pechs1]

nospam-<< Now, tell me, how in the &^^$^%$()* did the front seat driver resisit
the urge to yank & bank with that going on in the back?! >><BR><BR>

It was the guy in the trunk,and we did have poopy suits on, but he might have
to borrow money from him someday..ya don't **** off yer squadron mates.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer