First A/A Kill of the Gulf War?

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

According to the NAS Fort Worth Plan of the Week (about 2 weeks ago):

An EF-111 out of Mt Home AFB, Mt Home, Idaho, logged the first kill of the
Gulf War--much to the chagrin of the entire fighter community, many of whom
still refuse to recognize the fact.

The EF-111, having no offensive weapons, was jumped by an Iraqi MIG in the
first strike of the war and after several defensive maneuvers in Terrain
Following by the EF-111, the MIG plowed into the side of a mountain. The
ground, having a PK of 1, won. After the war, the aircraft was retired and
flown to Wright Patterson AFB where it is on display in the museum.

According to the author, he's personal friends with the WSO on this mission.

Comments?

--Woody

[Rob van Riel]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 04:30:44 +0000, Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote:
> Comments?

I've always found manoeuver kills a bit dubious, after all, they are no
more than death by (encouraged) stupidity. I don't really feel it's a kill
unless you had to pull the trigger or ram the bugger. On the other hand,
manouever kills are officially accepted, and should be accepted regardless
of aircraft type.

Rob

[D]

----------
In article >, "Doug \"Woody\" and Erin
Beal" > wrote:

> According to the NAS Fort Worth Plan of the Week (about 2 weeks ago):
>
> An EF-111 out of Mt Home AFB, Mt Home, Idaho, logged the first kill of the
> Gulf War--much to the chagrin of the entire fighter community, many of whom
> still refuse to recognize the fact.

How about Speicher's F-18 shot down by a MiG-25?





D

[José Herculano]

A kill is a kill? ;-)

Actually it was not the first kill of the war, but the 4th to happen, on the
first day (17 January). Don't know if it is official as of now, but indeed
it was absent from the first official listings I saw.

EF-111A vs Mirage F1
Pilot: James Denton
EWO: Brent Brandon

I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop
trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi
took to the chute.
_____________
José Herculano

> According to the author, he's personal friends with the WSO on this
> mission.
>
> Comments?
>
> --Woody

[nafod40]

José Herculano wrote:
> A kill is a kill? ;-)
>
> EF-111A vs Mirage F1
> Pilot: James Denton
> EWO: Brent Brandon
>
> I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop
> trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi
> took to the chute.

The ultimate would be a kill by thumping.

[Elmshoot]

>The
>ground, having a PK of 1, won.
Woody,
As I'm sure you know that there have been occasions that while the ground is
hard and unforgiving it's not quite a 1.0

Hey at least the Spark Vark can now be refered to as a Fighter.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Rob van Riel > wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 04:30:44 +0000, Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote:
> > Comments?
>
> I've always found manoeuver kills a bit dubious, after all, they are no
> more than death by (encouraged) stupidity. I don't really feel it's a kill
> unless you had to pull the trigger or ram the bugger. On the other hand,
> manouever kills are officially accepted, and should be accepted regardless
> of aircraft type.
>
> Rob


A kill is still a kill!

[vincent p. norris]

>I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop
>trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid iraqi
>took to the chute.

Seems to me it would take as great or greater skill for an unarmed
pilot to fly his enemy into the ground than to shoot him down. I
believe I read that someone in a Piper or Stinson liaison plane
"killed" a Luftwaffe fighter that way during WW II.

OTOH, I don't suppose that Pilatus kill called for much skill on the
F-15's part.

vince norris

[Keith W]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop
>>trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid
>>iraqi
>>took to the chute.
>
> Seems to me it would take as great or greater skill for an unarmed
> pilot to fly his enemy into the ground than to shoot him down. I
> believe I read that someone in a Piper or Stinson liaison plane
> "killed" a Luftwaffe fighter that way during WW II.
>

There was a Swordfish pilot credited with 2 kills in WW2.
He was being attacked by 2 Italian fighters and he dived for
the sea pulling out just above the wavetops. They misjudged
their pullout and splashed in either side of him.

Keith

[vincent p. norris]

>There was a Swordfish pilot credited with 2 kills in WW2.
>He was being attacked by 2 Italian fighters and he dived for
>the sea pulling out just above the wavetops. They misjudged
>their pullout and splashed in either side of him.

You remind me that in _To War in a Stringbag_, the author tells of
accidentally causing the death of a fellow RNAS pilot the same way, in
mock combat.

vince norris

[Tony Volk]

> I remember an F-15C credited with a kill over an Iraqi Pilatus PC-9 *prop
> trainer*! No missiles nor gun... the Eagle showed up and the intrepid
iraqi
> took to the chute.

F-15C vs PC-9? That was a smart Iraqi!

Tony