soaring video with Flarm in use

[Brad[_2_]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!

the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.

Brad

[Westbender]

On Sep 16, 12:44*pm, Brad > wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>
> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>
> Brad

Very cool.

[TRKA]

On 16 Sep., 19:59, Westbender > wrote:
> On Sep 16, 12:44*pm, Brad > wrote:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>
> > the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
> > the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
> > sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>
> > Brad
>
> Very cool.

Hi Brad, it seems you are watching streckenflug.at website ? :)

[Paul Tribe]

At 06:48 17 September 2010, TRKA wrote:
>On 16 Sep., 19:59, Westbender wrote:
>> On Sep 16, 12:44=A0pm, Brad wrote:
>>
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=3DUWRX1hcz0_0&feature=3Dplayer_embedded#!
>>
>> > the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in
some of
>> > the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the
target
>> > sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in
action.
>>
>> > Brad
>>
>> Very cool.
>
>Hi Brad, it seems you are watching streckenflug.at website ? :)
>

Cool video!

If, as I assume it was made using a head mounted camera, what
happened to the scan cycle? The pilot did not seem to look up or
left for over two minutes from 1:33 into the video...

[Bruno[_2_]]

On Sep 17, 9:11*am, Paul Tribe >
wrote:
> At 06:48 17 September 2010, TRKA wrote:>On 16 Sep., 19:59, Westbender *wrote:
> >> On Sep 16, 12:44=A0pm, Brad *wrote:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?
>
> v=3DUWRX1hcz0_0&feature=3Dplayer_embedded#!
>
>
>
> >> > the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in
> some of
> >> > the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the
> target
> >> > sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in
> action.
>
> >> > Brad
>
> >> Very cool.
>
> >Hi Brad, it seems you are watching streckenflug.at website ? :)
>
> Cool video!
>
> If, as I assume it was made using a head mounted camera, what
> happened to the scan cycle? The pilot did not seem to look up or
> left for over two minutes from 1:33 into the video...

This observation points out the risk of posting online soaring videos.
It is amazing to see how people actually fly once you look back at the
video of their flights including their visual scans. I am not excusing
lack of scanning during any portion of any duration flight, and it
sounds like you are very aware of the need for constant scanning and
probably do a very good job Paul. That said, take up a video camera
and film yourself on one of your next longer flights and you will be
shocked at all the "mistakes" and safety omissions you may end up
committing. In my videos I have found that I need to constantly remind
myself to look over my shoulder to clear the turn before turning.
Watching my own videos has helped me to start identifying these
mistakes and start correcting them in subsequent flights. Again, take
up a video camera, mount it somewhere and forget about it and then be
amazed at what you will learn about your own flying mistakes.

BTW, thanks to lucadema1 for posting the final glide video! It was
quite fun to watch. Good job. :)

Take care,
Bruno - B4
http://www.youtube.com/user/bviv

[sisu1a]

> If, as I assume it was made using a head mounted camera, what
> happened to the scan cycle? The pilot did not seem to look up or
> left for over two minutes from 1:33 into the video...

I'm sure this guy is scanning plenty, even if he isn't moving his
entire head to do so. Don't know how your constructed, but my eyeballs
can swivel quite a bit in their sockets...

-Paul

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 17, 9:34*am, sisu1a > wrote:
> > If, as I assume it was made using a head mounted camera, what
> > happened to the scan cycle? The pilot did not seem to look up or
> > left for over two minutes from 1:33 into the video...
>
> I'm sure this guy is scanning plenty, even if he isn't moving his
> entire head to do so. Don't know how your constructed, but my eyeballs
> can swivel quite a bit in their sockets...
>
> -Paul

Paul,

Bob and I are working on the Super Anole scanning headgear unit. one
of the really neat features is the ability to not only see completely
around the cockpit, but for an additional charge we include the
extendable tongue bug wiper system.

Brad

[db_sonic]

On Sep 16, 10:44*am, Brad > wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>
> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>
> Brad

Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
Flarm lights up.
And that other guy is close!

[John Smith]

db_sonic wrote:
> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
> Flarm lights up.
> And that other guy is close!

Actually, that's the whole point of FLARM: It doesn't dumbly warn based
on proximity, but intelligently based on the predicted flight paths. And
it knows about gliders. ;-)

[PCool]

Actually the FLARM should light up stable (no blinking, and no sound) for
such a case.
This is a tipical situation with FLARM. It's not a software problem, it's a
radio problem.
The range is drastically reduced by badly positioned antennas, so if you are
not heading towards another unit
there are good chances that sometimes it won't light up, just like in the
video.

If FLARM could transmit at more than those few (20?) mW things would be very
different.
In any case, it works fine when you have frontal traffic because the
antennas are perfectly visible each other.

All users (and in the alps in europe we all use flarms since 2006) know that
their flarm is only an auxiliary help for safety,
and that many times it won't light up for nearby traffic. You must always
assume that another glider is not using a Flarm.
That's imperative.



"John Smith" > ha scritto nel messaggio
. ..
> db_sonic wrote:
>> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
>> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
>> Flarm lights up.
>> And that other guy is close!
>
> Actually, that's the whole point of FLARM: It doesn't dumbly warn based on
> proximity, but intelligently based on the predicted flight paths. And it
> knows about gliders. ;-)

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

The way Flarm works is also dependent on its installation, which as
far as I can see particularly involves the location of the tiny aerial
which gives Flarm to Flarm communication.

My unit is on top of the instrument coaming. This shields it from
transmissions from below, so an approaching glider at a lower level
may be detected some distance away, and then it becomes invisible to
the Flarm unit as it gets close and underneath.

I have also found that on some occasions, a glider has to be really
near before the unit detects it. I don't know why, but it seems to be
somewhat variable.

Nevertheless, I find it very valuable, and these elements of
variability do not make it worthwhile to me to try to develop a
different location for a remote aerial, which in any case would need a
lead that I don't have, although I believe one is available if
required.

Chris N

[hans]

It looks like the pilot has put his FLARM in stealth mode. In this mode
only situations in which an impact is expected within the next 18
seconds are annunciated as proximity warnings (alerts). The stealth mode
is used by some pilots to make their position data and lift and sink
information unavailable to other pilots, if this information is not
necessary for proximity warning.

The display used in this gilder annunciates proximity warnings (alerts)
in red, mere proximity information would be displayed in green.


Am 17.09.2010 21:51, schrieb db_sonic:
> On Sep 16, 10:44 am, > wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>>
>> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
>> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
>> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>>
>> Brad
>
> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
> Flarm lights up.
> And that other guy is close!

[PCool]

Green??
I dont think so, the only green leds on flarms are those blinking for gps
transmission, power etc.
All informations are red, either fixed or blinking.
I dont think they were in "stealth" mode, it is tricky to use it and -
then - your PDA won't receive traffic informations.
Moreover, stealth mode is bypassable using an alternative "compatible"
device, on the market, so it is not a choice.


"hans" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> It looks like the pilot has put his FLARM in stealth mode. In this mode
> only situations in which an impact is expected within the next 18 seconds
> are annunciated as proximity warnings (alerts). The stealth mode is used
> by some pilots to make their position data and lift and sink information
> unavailable to other pilots, if this information is not necessary for
> proximity warning.
>
> The display used in this gilder annunciates proximity warnings (alerts) in
> red, mere proximity information would be displayed in green.
>
>
> Am 17.09.2010 21:51, schrieb db_sonic:
>> On Sep 16, 10:44 am, > wrote:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>
>>> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some of
>>> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
>>> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>
>> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
>> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
>> Flarm lights up.
>> And that other guy is close!
>

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 17, 2:25*pm, Chris Nicholas > wrote:
> The way Flarm works is also dependent on its installation, which as
> far as I can see particularly involves the location of the tiny aerial
> which gives Flarm to Flarm communication.
>
> My unit is on top of the instrument coaming. This shields it from
> transmissions from below, so an approaching glider at a lower level
> may be detected some distance away, and then it becomes invisible to
> the Flarm unit as it gets close and underneath.
>
> I have also found that on some occasions, a glider has to be really
> near before the unit detects it. I don't know why, but it seems to be
> somewhat variable.
>
> Nevertheless, I find it very valuable, and these elements of
> variability do not make it worthwhile to me to try to develop a
> different location for a remote aerial, which in any case would need a
> lead that I don't have, although I believe one is available if
> required.
>
> Chris N

now I'm worried...............I have a carbon fiber airframe.

Brad

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

>
> now I'm worried...............I have a carbon fiber airframe.
>
> Brad- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So do I, and I think the coaming is also carbon fibre.

Regarding colours, I have the simplest Flarm, and it does have green
lights for contacts that are not a threat. It only shows red when a
contact turns into a threat.

Chris N

[Jonathon May[_2_]]

Green is proximity red alarm.Stealth is compulsory in rated comps to reduce
leeching.There has been a lot of discusion in the uk about degrading the
signal for comps,but there seems little choice because you can see
everyone elses speed and rate of climb on the pda if they are not in
stealth mode.


At 21:26 17 September 2010, PCool wrote:
>Green??
>I dont think so, the only green leds on flarms are those blinking for gps

>transmission, power etc.
>All informations are red, either fixed or blinking.
>I dont think they were in "stealth" mode, it is tricky to use it and -

>then - your PDA won't receive traffic informations.
>Moreover, stealth mode is bypassable using an alternative "compatible"

>device, on the market, so it is not a choice.
>
>
>"hans" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>> It looks like the pilot has put his FLARM in stealth mode. In this mode

>> only situations in which an impact is expected within the next 18
>seconds
>> are annunciated as proximity warnings (alerts). The stealth mode is
used
>
>> by some pilots to make their position data and lift and sink
information
>
>> unavailable to other pilots, if this information is not necessary for
>> proximity warning.
>>
>> The display used in this gilder annunciates proximity warnings
(alerts)
>in
>> red, mere proximity information would be displayed in green.
>>
>>
>> Am 17.09.2010 21:51, schrieb db_sonic:
>>> On Sep 16, 10:44 am, Brad wrote:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>>
>>>> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some
of
>>>> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
>>>> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>
>>> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
>>> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
>>> Flarm lights up.
>>> And that other guy is close!
>>
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

On 9/17/2010 2:38 PM, Brad wrote:
> On Sep 17, 2:25 pm, Chris > wrote:
>
>> Nevertheless, I find it very valuable, and these elements of
>> variability do not make it worthwhile to me to try to develop a
>> different location for a remote aerial, which in any case would need a
>> lead that I don't have, although I believe one is available if
>> required.
>>
>> Chris N
>>
> now I'm worried...............I have a carbon fiber airframe.
>

You should be fine - PowerFlarm has higher power output than Flarm, and
you can add a second Flarm antenna.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[Andreas Maurer]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:22:23 GMT, "PCool"
> wrote:

>Actually the FLARM should light up stable (no blinking, and no sound) for
>such a case.

It's a question of the setting.
This Flarm is set to "warnings only" where it only lightens up in case
of a possible collision.

What you mean is the "proximity mode" where the Flarm always shows the
direction to the closest target.



Regards
Andreas

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

To me the stealth and competition modes are a bad idea. They reduce the
effectiveness of the alerts.

As a sometimes contest manager, I would never mandate anything that would
reduce safety.

Paul Remde

"Jonathon May" > wrote in message
...
> Green is proximity red alarm.Stealth is compulsory in rated comps to
> reduce
> leeching.There has been a lot of discusion in the uk about degrading the
> signal for comps,but there seems little choice because you can see
> everyone elses speed and rate of climb on the pda if they are not in
> stealth mode.
>
>
> At 21:26 17 September 2010, PCool wrote:
>>Green??
>>I dont think so, the only green leds on flarms are those blinking for gps
>
>>transmission, power etc.
>>All informations are red, either fixed or blinking.
>>I dont think they were in "stealth" mode, it is tricky to use it and -
>
>>then - your PDA won't receive traffic informations.
>>Moreover, stealth mode is bypassable using an alternative "compatible"
>
>>device, on the market, so it is not a choice.
>>
>>
>>"hans" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>>> It looks like the pilot has put his FLARM in stealth mode. In this mode
>
>>> only situations in which an impact is expected within the next 18
>>seconds
>>> are annunciated as proximity warnings (alerts). The stealth mode is
> used
>>
>>> by some pilots to make their position data and lift and sink
> information
>>
>>> unavailable to other pilots, if this information is not necessary for
>>> proximity warning.
>>>
>>> The display used in this gilder annunciates proximity warnings
> (alerts)
>>in
>>> red, mere proximity information would be displayed in green.
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 17.09.2010 21:51, schrieb db_sonic:
>>>> On Sep 16, 10:44 am, Brad wrote:
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>>>
>>>>> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some
> of
>>>>> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
>>>>> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
>>>> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
>>>> Flarm lights up.
>>>> And that other guy is close!
>>>
>>
>>
>

[johngalloway[_2_]]

Competition mode might be considered to slightly reduce safety but
stealth mode (which is the mode mandated at UK contests this year)
should not diminish the collision warning functionality. I think that
the naming of the two modes could be improved. There is a good
explanation of them here:

http://www.flarm.com/support/Flarm_Competitions.pdf

BTW - the early LX Red Box Flarm remote displays had only red LEDs but
all 2006 onwards Swiss Flarm and later LX displays have the two
colours. I presume that the glider in the video had an early Red Box
and I think that all the Flarm display lights in the video are
proximity alerts rather than collision warnings - which is why the
direction sometimes switches as a different glider in the group
becomes he closest one.

It is good to see a positive attitude to Flarm use emerging in the
US. For those who feel that there is no point in having one unless
every glider does "it ain't necessarily so". The gliders that we are
most likely to collide with are the ones that we would least like to
take out our: friends who we fly XC with, other competitors in a
contest and training gliders doing multiple circuits at the home
field. Concentrating on organizing clusters of Flarms in the gliders
that are relevant to one's own circumstances can improve personal
risks (of death or regret) quite considerably more than is apparent
from the overall proportion of gliders with the device. Peer pressure
works quite well to encourage such clusters and helps them to spread
out.

John Galloway





On 18 Sep, 03:41, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> To me the stealth and competition modes are a bad idea. *They reduce the
> effectiveness of the alerts.
>
> As a sometimes contest manager, I would never mandate anything that would
> reduce safety.
>
> Paul Remde
>
> "Jonathon May" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Green is proximity red alarm.Stealth is compulsory in rated comps to
> > reduce
> > leeching.There has been a lot of discusion in the uk about degrading the
> > signal for comps,but there seems little choice because you can see
> > everyone elses speed and rate of climb on the pda if they are not in
> > stealth mode.
>
> > At 21:26 17 September 2010, PCool wrote:
> >>Green??
> >>I dont think so, the only green leds on flarms are those blinking for gps
>
> >>transmission, power etc.
> >>All informations are red, either fixed or blinking.
> >>I dont think they were in "stealth" mode, it is tricky to use it and -
>
> >>then - your PDA won't receive traffic informations.
> >>Moreover, stealth mode is bypassable using an alternative "compatible"
>
> >>device, on the market, so it is not a choice.
>
> >>"hans" *ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> >>> It looks like the pilot has put his FLARM in stealth mode. In this mode
>
> >>> only situations in which an impact is expected within the next 18
> >>seconds
> >>> are annunciated as proximity warnings (alerts). The stealth mode is
> > used
>
> >>> by some pilots to make their position data and lift and sink
> > information
>
> >>> unavailable to other pilots, if this information is not necessary for
> >>> proximity warning.
>
> >>> The display used in this gilder annunciates proximity warnings
> > (alerts)
> >>in
> >>> red, mere proximity information would be displayed in green.
>
> >>> Am 17.09.2010 21:51, schrieb db_sonic:
> >>>> On Sep 16, 10:44 am, Brad *wrote:
> >>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRX1hcz0_0&feature=player_embedded#!
>
> >>>>> the guy shooting the video has a Flarm on top of his panel, in some
> > of
> >>>>> the scenes you can see the display lighting up and see the target
> >>>>> sailplanes. I thought this was pretty cool to see Flarm in action.
>
> >>>>> Brad
>
> >>>> Is it just me? I am surprised the Flarm doesnt light up more.
> >>>> Its like the pilot looks right and sees the other glider before the
> >>>> Flarm lights up.
> >>>> And that other guy is close!