Progress

[Gaetan Trudel]

Hi
I have a 20 year old electronic vario from LX in my glider. It does
what it should be doing very well in my opinion. But I never fly with
any other vario. I see many new vario, LX,Tasmann, Westerboer... and
so on.
Is there technical progress that make my 20 year old vario obsolete
and justify spending money on the latest vario?
I am often attracted to gadget.
Regards
Gilles

[Dave Nadler]

On Sep 18, 10:51*am, Gaetan Trudel > wrote:
> Hi
> I have a 20 year old electronic vario from LX in my glider. It does
> what it should be doing very well in my opinion. But I never fly with
> any other vario. I see many new vario, LX,Tasmann, Westerboer... and
> so on.
> Is there technical progress that make my 20 year old vario obsolete
> and justify spending money on the latest vario?
> I am often attracted to gadget.
> Regards
> Gilles

Depends on what kind of flying you do,
and whether you like to spend money ;-)
Do you fly XC ? Where ? What glider ?

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

On Sep 18, 9:51*am, Gaetan Trudel > wrote:
> Hi
> I have a 20 year old electronic vario from LX in my glider. It does
> what it should be doing very well in my opinion. But I never fly with
> any other vario. I see many new vario, LX,Tasmann, Westerboer... and
> so on.
> Is there technical progress that make my 20 year old vario obsolete
> and justify spending money on the latest vario?
> I am often attracted to gadget.
> Regards
> Gilles

Yes. New varios are better than old varios. (I don't know LX, but
newer cambridge are much better than older cambridge for sure.) You
center better, climb better, and sometimes catch a thermal you would
miss otherwise. Second to good installation, a great and well-
calibrated vario is the single most important investment you can make
for thermaling and cross country performance.

A mild opinion, for once

John Cochrane

[Andy[_1_]]

On Sep 18, 8:58*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:

> newer cambridge are much better than older cambridge for sure.)

Maybe, maybe not. I still think the MNAV vario was very nice and I
never felt quite as good about the 302.

Andy

[Tony[_5_]]

On Sep 18, 5:49*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Sep 18, 8:58*am, John Cochrane >
> wrote:
>
> > newer cambridge are much better than older cambridge for sure.)
>
> Maybe, maybe not. I still think the MNAV vario was very nice and I
> never felt quite as good about the 302.
>
> Andy

i've got a mechanical Winter in the Cherokee and I'm kind of afraid to
replace it. After 5 years together I really know how to read that
vario and use it to center lift fairly quickly I think. I am tuned to
the glider and the vario. The three of us are a system.

[Mark628CA]

Hi-

I have a 50,000 year old method of starting a fire using two sticks
and a lot of patience. Have there been enough technological advances
to make it worthwhile spending the money to upgrade to what I
understand are called "matches," or possibly the latest butane powered
fire starters?

Please reply soon, as winter is coming.

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 18, 8:41*pm, Mark628CA > wrote:
> Hi-
>
> I have a 50,000 year old method of starting a fire using two sticks
> and a lot of patience. Have there been enough technological advances
> to make it worthwhile spending the money to upgrade to what I
> understand are called "matches," or possibly the latest butane powered
> fire starters?
>
> Please reply soon, as winter is coming.

I'll trade you my Makiki Pellet vario for some of those, what did you
call them again......matches?

Brad

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
Mark628CA > wrote:

> Hi-
>
> I have a 50,000 year old method of starting a fire using two sticks
> and a lot of patience. Have there been enough technological advances
> to make it worthwhile spending the money to upgrade to what I
> understand are called "matches," or possibly the latest butane powered
> fire starters?
>
> Please reply soon, as winter is coming.

These "matches" may be fine for retired rich folk, and are probably
useful for competing in the World Fire Championship, but they completely
ignore the reality of the current state of fire in the US. How do you
expect young pyromaniacs to participate in fire when they have to pay
for matches, on top of tuition and books and all the rest?

No young people show up at my fire pit expecting to see shiny new
matches, and none of them get scared away by people rubbing sticks
together. They just want fire, they don't care about the latest shiny
doodads. If everybody upgrades to matches, it will kill the sport!

(Was that about right?)

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Eric Greenwell]

On 9/18/2010 7:23 PM, Tony wrote:
> On Sep 18, 5:49 pm, > wrote:
>
>> Maybe, maybe not. I still think the MNAV vario was very nice and I
>> never felt quite as good about the 302.
>>
>> Andy
>>
> i've got a mechanical Winter in the Cherokee and I'm kind of afraid to
> replace it. After 5 years together I really know how to read that
> vario and use it to center lift fairly quickly I think. I am tuned to
> the glider and the vario. The three of us are a system.
>

You'll get used to a new one in a few flights, and you don't have get
rid of the Winter. Lots of pilots like mechanical as a backup. You
should get a vario with an audio, though!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[Tony[_5_]]

On Sep 19, 7:13*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> On 9/18/2010 7:23 PM, Tony wrote:
>
> > On Sep 18, 5:49 pm, > *wrote:
>
> >> Maybe, maybe not. I still think the MNAV vario was very nice and I
> >> never felt quite as good about the 302.
>
> >> Andy
>
> > i've got a mechanical Winter in the Cherokee and I'm kind of afraid to
> > replace it. After 5 years together I really know how to read that
> > vario and use it to center lift fairly quickly I think. *I am tuned to
> > the glider and the vario. The three of us are a system.
>
> You'll get used to a new one in a few flights, and you don't have get
> rid of the Winter. Lots of pilots like mechanical as a backup. You
> should get a vario with an audio, though!
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)
>
> - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
>
> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

I know i need to get audio Eric. I'm still holding out that I'll win
the Clear Nav raffle at New Castle...But yea I should work on freeing
up enough panel space for another vario.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:06:57 -0700, Tony wrote:

>
> I know i need to get audio Eric. I'm still holding out that I'll win the
> Clear Nav raffle at New Castle...But yea I should work on freeing up
> enough panel space for another vario.
>
If you see a used Borgelt B.40 going begging at a nice price - grab it.
They make nice noises, have a very fast response, are designed to have a
9v battery fitted in the back as emergency power and Mike Borgelt's
repair service is fast despite him being in Australia. Their only demerit
is that you have to push a button to see the average.

The other one to look for is the Tasman V.1000. It has all the stuff
mentioned for the B.40 plus an LCD display which uses blocks round the
edge for instantant climb rate and a digital average in the middle,
though its backup battery is an optional extra.

However, you can't fit a MacCready ring to either of them, which is a
good reason for retaining your mechanical vario as a backup.

Just so you know, I have a B.40 as my backup (and swap the 9v battery
annually) but was about to buy a new V.1000 when the used B.40 was
offered to me.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Brian[_1_]]

On Sep 20, 2:06*pm, Tony > wrote:
> On Sep 19, 7:13*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9/18/2010 7:23 PM, Tony wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 18, 5:49 pm, > *wrote:
>
> > >> Maybe, maybe not. I still think the MNAV vario was very nice and I
> > >> never felt quite as good about the 302.
>
> > >> Andy
>
> > > i've got a mechanical Winter in the Cherokee and I'm kind of afraid to
> > > replace it. After 5 years together I really know how to read that
> > > vario and use it to center lift fairly quickly I think. *I am tuned to
> > > the glider and the vario. The three of us are a system.
>
> > You'll get used to a new one in a few flights, and you don't have get
> > rid of the Winter. Lots of pilots like mechanical as a backup. You
> > should get a vario with an audio, though!
>
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)
>
> > - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
>
> > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz
>
> I know i need to get audio Eric. I'm still holding out that I'll win
> the Clear Nav raffle at New Castle...But yea I should work on freeing
> up enough panel space for another vario.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My old CNAV still works very well, The CNAV's and MNavs come along
occasionally at reasonable prices.

Brian

[Tony[_5_]]

On Sep 20, 5:37*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:06:57 -0700, Tony wrote:
>
> > I know i need to get audio Eric. I'm still holding out that I'll win the
> > Clear Nav raffle at New Castle...But yea I should work on freeing up
> > enough panel space for another vario.
>
> If you see a used Borgelt B.40 going begging at a nice price - grab it.
> They make nice noises, have a very fast response, are designed to have a
> 9v battery fitted in the back as emergency power and Mike Borgelt's
> repair service is fast despite him being in Australia. Their only demerit
> is that you have to push a button to see the average.
>
> The other one to look for is the Tasman V.1000. It has all the stuff
> mentioned for the B.40 plus an LCD display which uses blocks round the
> edge for instantant climb rate and a digital average in the middle,
> though its backup battery is an optional extra.
>
> However, you can't fit a MacCready ring to either of them, which is a
> good reason for retaining your mechanical vario as a backup.
>
> Just so you know, I have a B.40 as my backup (and swap the 9v battery
> annually) but was about to buy a new V.1000 when the used B.40 was
> offered to me.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

yep martin, i've been keeping an eye out for either one for a while.
its obvious they are good varios. the people who have them seem to
keep them.

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 20, 6:18*pm, Tony > wrote:
> On Sep 20, 5:37*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:06:57 -0700, Tony wrote:
>
> > > I know i need to get audio Eric. I'm still holding out that I'll win the
> > > Clear Nav raffle at New Castle...But yea I should work on freeing up
> > > enough panel space for another vario.
>
> > If you see a used Borgelt B.40 going begging at a nice price - grab it.
> > They make nice noises, have a very fast response, are designed to have a
> > 9v battery fitted in the back as emergency power and Mike Borgelt's
> > repair service is fast despite him being in Australia. Their only demerit
> > is that you have to push a button to see the average.
>
> > The other one to look for is the Tasman V.1000. It has all the stuff
> > mentioned for the B.40 plus an LCD display which uses blocks round the
> > edge for instantant climb rate and a digital average in the middle,
> > though its backup battery is an optional extra.
>
> > However, you can't fit a MacCready ring to either of them, which is a
> > good reason for retaining your mechanical vario as a backup.
>
> > Just so you know, I have a B.40 as my backup (and swap the 9v battery
> > annually) but was about to buy a new V.1000 when the used B.40 was
> > offered to me.
>
> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |
>
> yep martin, i've been keeping an eye out for either one for a while.
> its obvious they are good varios. the people who have them seem to
> keep them.

Tony,

my friend Dan is selling his Tasman, it is listed on Paul Remdes
website. My favorite "club" vario is the iLEC SC-7, it also has a
McReadring option.

Brad

[Tony[_5_]]

> Tony,
>
> my friend Dan is selling his Tasman, it is listed on Paul Remdes
> website. My favorite "club" vario is the iLEC SC-7, it also has a
> McReadring option.
>
> Brad

i just emailed him :)

[Tony[_5_]]

On Sep 20, 8:42*pm, Tony > wrote:
> > Tony,
>
> > my friend Dan is selling his Tasman, it is listed on Paul Remdes
> > website. My favorite "club" vario is the iLEC SC-7, it also has a
> > McReadring option.
>
> > Brad
>
> i just emailed him :)

hmmm will the Tasman V1000 work on just a static port or does it have
to have a TE Probe? No Total Energy on the Cherokee...

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 21, 7:25*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Sep 20, 8:42*pm, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > Tony,
>
> > > my friend Dan is selling his Tasman, it is listed on Paul Remdes
> > > website. My favorite "club" vario is the iLEC SC-7, it also has a
> > > McReadring option.
>
> > > Brad
>
> > i just emailed him :)
>
> hmmm will the Tasman V1000 work on just a static port or does it have
> to have a TE Probe? *No Total Energy on the Cherokee...

Tony,

add one of those vertical Nicks tubes to the Cherokee. what does your
winter vario use?

Brad

[Tony[_5_]]

On Sep 21, 9:40*am, Brad > wrote:
> On Sep 21, 7:25*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > On Sep 20, 8:42*pm, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > > Tony,
>
> > > > my friend Dan is selling his Tasman, it is listed on Paul Remdes
> > > > website. My favorite "club" vario is the iLEC SC-7, it also has a
> > > > McReadring option.
>
> > > > Brad
>
> > > i just emailed him :)
>
> > hmmm will the Tasman V1000 work on just a static port or does it have
> > to have a TE Probe? *No Total Energy on the Cherokee...
>
> Tony,
>
> add one of those vertical Nicks tubes to the Cherokee. what does your
> winter vario use?
>
> Brad

my winter is plumbed to the flask on one side and the static system on
the other.

i had a homemade vertical tube sticking up just behind the turtle deck
in years past. Built it according to Dick Johnson's article. When I
recovered the glider I left it off. Vario seems to work about the same
with or without it. Perhaps that drag reduction is why I've had so
many long flights this season :D

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 07:50:26 -0700, Tony wrote:

>
> i had a homemade vertical tube sticking up just behind the turtle deck
> in years past. Built it according to Dick Johnson's article. When I
> recovered the glider I left it off. Vario seems to work about the same
> with or without it. Perhaps that drag reduction is why I've had so many
> long flights this season :D
>
AFAIK none of the simple vario+averager type instruments have electronic
TE compensation - the B.40 and V.1000 certainly don't.

If you do get a pressure sensing vario, as opposed to a capacity flask/
flow type, and retain the Winter, you should at least glance at this:
http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/instrumentinstallation.pdf


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
>,
Tony > wrote:

> On Sep 20, 5:37*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> w
> > However, you can't fit a MacCready ring to either of them, which is a
> > good reason for retaining your mechanical vario as a backup.
> >
> > Just so you know, I have a B.40 as my backup (and swap the 9v battery
> > annually) but was about to buy a new V.1000 when the used B.40 was
> > offered to me.
> >
> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |
>
> yep martin, i've been keeping an eye out for either one for a while.
> its obvious they are good varios. the people who have them seem to
> keep them.

Been running a B40 for about 10 years as my primary vario. Small Winter
mechanical as a backup. MacCready ring on the Winter is for a DG600. My
glider is a H301 Libelle. Eh, close enough.

In all seriousness, I like the B40 as well or better than nearly any
other vario that I've flown with. The only thing I can say negative
about it is that the mechanical needle movement is not completely
invulnerable to damage. I forgot about a particularly rough railroad
crossing one night and hit it at speed. Car, trailer, and glider
launched on a short but exciting flight. The landing was firm. The vario
and my Winter ASI were somewhat worse for the experience. Borgelt fixed
the vario and I had it back in no time.